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Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds (Read 1046 times)
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #20 - 05/16/07 at 6:03pm
 
Being in JimB's shoes i would match the price get rid of the merchandise and either tell dyson to price match to me or take his stuff back.I know of dealers that have done the latter.
 
I have told Jim B on this forum that this is going to happen.A year ago.
 
The other diliema is that the repacks are showing up everywhere and it's been going on for a while. remember what i told you about EBAY?
 
How much service can you sell Jim.[not 150.00 worth i bet.
 
and you still get to put out the fires as a warranty station.And being a warranty dealer you have to fix it for free dont you. weather you like it or not.
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #21 - 05/16/07 at 9:55pm
 
Just curious, Carmine, but are you also then critical of brands like Miele or Simplicity that have higher markups and profit margins than Dyson? I've always thought that was a rather ludicrous criticism. If consumers think a product it worth the price, then it is worth it. Now, I don't drive a Lexus, or wear a Rolex because to me they aren't worth it, but I'm also not going to criticize someone who does, and tell them they have spent their money unwisely. As for my DC07s, they are going fiver years old now, and when you figure in all costs, they will have cost less to operate on an annual basis than the cheap, disposable bagged Hoovers, Eurekas or the Simplicity they replaced. Were they reasonably priced? For my purposes, yes.
 
As for your statement that they are gone from Sam's and Walmart, last time I was in them, which was about a month ago, both were still selling Dysons. Are you saying that this has changed in the last month?
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Carmine_Difazio
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #22 - 05/16/07 at 10:09pm
 
Carl:
 
Miele and RICCAR/Simplicity are worthy of their selling prices, which are consistent across Indy's nationwide.  Dyson is not worthy and not consistent across retailers.  Don't take my word alone.  Ask any vacuum industry professional.  They will ALL tell you the same.  Are they ALL wrong?  Maybe.  But I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Dyson is hanging on by a LEGAL thread in the Wal*Mart stores because of contract requirements.  Sam's stores has a separate agreement with dyson.  And I would not be surprised if the Sam's stores get spun off this year from Wal*mart.
 
At Wal*Mart, the 2 year dyson warranty, $378 set in stone retail price AND regularly advertised discounts of 20 percent off by several well known retailers' dyson prices has guaranteed "zero" Wal*Mart sales of the DC07 Original since August 2006.  When the contract between dyson and Wal*Mart ends, it will NOT get renewed as it currently reads.  That's my sense unless dyson and Wal*Mart make come major contract changes to the existing agreement and dyson increases the warranty on the Wal*Mart DC07 to 5 years like its other models.  
 
In some Wal*Mart stores, the dyson boxes have been taken off the shelves long ago and not restocked in many many months.  It's a dead item for all intents and purposes (just as the DC07 All Carpet).
 
Carmine D.
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #23 - 05/17/07 at 10:11am
 
Next thing you know you will be predicting dyson will be out of Best Buy by the end of the year.  Oops you have already done that.  How did that work for you?   Why all the bobbing and weaving where are the all the links to all those retailers that are selling dysons being sold at 30% off?  Your attack is based on a falsehood.  By the way you may want to visit a forum like the vdf where dealers only post before you try speaking for all dealers.  There are a growing number find room for dyson on thier floor.  So those several links to all those retailers selling for 30% off?
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #24 - 05/17/07 at 12:11pm
 
The strange thing about your argument that Miele is "worth" the high prices in the US is that they charge so much less for it in Europe, where it is not sold as a super-premuim vacuum. As I recall, Dyson and Miele are sold for about the same price in Europe, whereas in the US Meile is frequently twice the price of a Dyson. Why, in your opinion, is Miele "worth" more in the US than in Europe? My neighbor loves her Miele, but she bought it in Europe, and buys her bags in Europe because she doesn't think they are "worth" the American prices.
 
As for Riccar/Simplicity, I did buy one once. It was an OK vacuum, but we had a lot of problems with it, and no one liked it. My personal opinion is that it wasn't remotely "worth" what I paid for it, and I would never consider buying another.  
 
The fact is that value is in the eye of the beholder, and reasonable minds can and will differ, which is why we have so many brands to choose from.
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #25 - 05/17/07 at 12:25pm
 
Well Carl, I hate to use vehicles as a comparison but I have to answer your question.  Mercedes and BMW's are more expensive in the USA too vice Germany.  Much more.  The import taxes and excise fees for both German made cars and vacuums are the reason.
 
I suspect one of the reasons dyson extended the warranty to 5 years in August 2006 was to give buyers a "perception" of added value and quality.  It would not have done so if there were a pervasive belief that it was a valuable brand for the money.
 
But dyson then immediately upped the prices on all the subsequent new models: DC17, 18, 21.  The DC17 sales are tepid, so are the DC18 Slim: Hence the retailers' discounts.  The DC21 is doa.  Dyson may start gifting away DC16 hand helds with the DC21 and lower the price by $100.  Still, sales for new dysons are hitting a brick wall.  What does dyson do now to add value?
 
Carmine D.
 
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« Last Edit: 05/17/07 at 2:19pm by Carmine_Difazio »  
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #26 - 05/17/07 at 12:31pm
 
Quote from JimB on 05/17/07 at 10:11am:
  Why all the bobbing and weaving where are the all the links to all those retailers that are selling dysons being sold at 30% off?  Your attack is based on a falsehood.  

 
JimB:
 
Take a look on the thread about BEST BUY and Sunday Parade.  You'll find your answer.  Recall please I said advertised prices 15-20-30 percent off MSRP.  All these percentages above dyson MAP of 10 percent.  
 
BTW, you didn't answer my question about the customer who comes into your store to buy a dyson and says it's for sale at 30 percent off at another retailer?  What do you do?
 
I'm sure SOME Indy's like yourself are adding the dyson line.  For many reasons.  In part to get a rake off on the genuine parts to do the lucrative dyson repairs.  My point is if you ask Indy's about dyson versus other brands and which is better:  NONE will give dyson as the best.  SEBO, Lindhaus, RICCAR/Simplicity, Miele, Aerus, Kirby (all bagged) are the majority answers.  Dyson may get an honorable mention for the best bagless maybe but................not when price is factored into the question.  
 
Carmine D.
 
  
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« Last Edit: 05/17/07 at 2:20pm by Carmine_Difazio »  
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #27 - 05/17/07 at 2:36pm
 
Quote from JimB on 05/17/07 at 10:11am:
Next thing you know you will be predicting dyson will be out of Best Buy by the end of the year.  Oops you have already done that.  How did that work for you?  

 
Working just fine.  With Electrolux bagged vacuums back in BEST BUY stores (as I predicted in Sept 2006 after the October Consumer Reports rated the models highly) and assorted other bagless brands like Euro-Pro Infinity, BISSELL Heathy Home, Velocity and Momentum, and assorted HOOVER and Dirt Devil makes and models, dyson sales are hitting a brick wall.   Big box retailers like Wal*Mart, BEST BUY, etc. are struggling so far this year with sales and have been since 2006.  For several reasons.  First, the housing market bubble burst in 2006 and the housing sector is way down (something about subprime mortgage market?).  This is bringing down other related industries that are connected to housing sales, like household appliances.  So major appliance sales in big box stores, including vacuums, and especially the most expensive vacuums [read dysons] are way down in 2007.  Second, high fuel costs are cutting into family and people's budgets for household needs and wants.  Average price of a gallon of gas in the USA is $3.10 for regular.  Retailers, like BEST BUY, Circuit City, Kohl's, TARGET are feeling the pain.  What do they do?  Well, one thing they are and will do is move merchandise from high cost items that are lingering too long on shelves (like dyson vacuums) to more popular selling cell phones and other consumer electronic gadgets.   Make sense?   Smiley
 
By mid summer and into fall 2007, many big box retailers will have already made changes to store merchandise and shift funds around.  Why?  In preparation for the the final quarter.  With the Christmas holiday sales, the last quarter in 2007 is the bread and butter time of the year for retailers.  If they don't make it then, the year is shot.  The recent pervasive discounts on dysons (currently by 4 separate big box chains at least 20-30 percent including the latest dyson models) so early in the year is a precursor.  In the past these discounts were seen in the final quarter on limited (read: older models).  Liquidating the merchandise now before its too late is a sign of more drastic things to come to sure up sales later in the year.
 
If high priced items like vacuums that aren't selling (read: dyson) are cut back now and by mid 2007, and I believe they are and will be reduced not just at BB but all retailers, Indy's will reap huge rewards.  High quality minded vacuum customers will go to the Indy's for the rest of 2007 for their vacuum purchases.  Then, dyson will wish it was kinder and gentler to the indy's.  Wink
 
Carmine D.
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #28 - 05/17/07 at 5:39pm
 
Quote from Carmine_Difazio on 05/17/07 at 12:31pm:
Quote from JimB on 05/17/07 at 10:11am:
  Why all the bobbing and weaving where are the all the links to all those retailers that are selling dysons being sold at 30% off?  Your attack is based on a falsehood.  


JimB:

Take a look on the thread about BEST BUY and Sunday Parade.  You'll find your answer.  Recall please I said advertised prices 15-20-30 percent off MSRP.  All these percentages above dyson MAP of 10 percent.  

BTW, you didn't answer my question about the customer who comes into your store to buy a dyson and says it's for sale at 30 percent off at another retailer?  What do you do?

Carmine D.

 

 
I have read your other posts and I have seen no "dyson" sales as you falsely and deceptively imply.  All the sales you mention are what appear to be weeklong sales by retailers on thier whole floorcare product runs.  All vacuums of all brands in the store are on sale for the same percentages off and yet not surprisingly you only attack dyson.    Any pro knows that dyson has low margins, Honesty just doesn't fit into your personal anti dyson crusade.   Why not attack any of the other brands part of the "all floorcare" sales as they are being discounted at the same percentages.
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Re: Dyson v. Black and Decker Pivot Handhelds
Reply #29 - 05/17/07 at 6:03pm
 
Hi ,I would be more than willing to tell you the margins on anything,machines,parts,labor.  
 
does 240.00 sound right for the dc18.
 
 O.T.
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