Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

We recently purchased a Sebo Felix from Costco.com and my wife does not like it at all.  It runs hot and was heavy/akward to carry as a canister.  Luckily Costco has a great return policy!  The most important feature for her is light weight and she really likes our 10-year old Oreck.  I've gone to both the Oreck store and an independent vacuum store to look and compare.  The Oreck and Simplicty Freedom seem very similar.  I like the high end Simplicity Freedom model F3700 [priced at $399] without the companion canister and $499 with the canister because it has a metal brush roll.  The lower end freedom models don't have two speeds and frankly don't seem as good as the Oreck to me.  At the Oreck Store I tested the Magnesium, which was interesting, but costs $399 as well [$499 with canister].  Also, not sure about buying this new and unproven model although it was incredibly light.  Costco is running a special thru January 15th, where I can purchase the Oreck XL & Canister companion for $248 [$50 off costco price].  At the end of the day this seems like the best value to me, but I'm curious as tot he opinions on this forum.  Thanks very much!  

What a pity you got rid of it - the Felix would have made a good secondary back up machine. If the Felix was running hot, then it's been put to the highest speed - as the happy owner of a Felix (5 years and counting) I seldom need to keep it in the highest maximum suction speed to pick up deep down grit, dirt and pet hair and the heat you felt was the clean air expelled from its top wrap around filter and motor. The canister option isn't something I like from Oreck and in the UK we don't get many modern Oreck models, having to buy a separate canister for the lack of a hose and tools on board. I bought the Felix because it is compact and easy to get around corners as well as having the on/off brush roll function. I like the Oreck Magnesium model a lot and wish it could be here in the UK - but again unless you really need a hose and smaller cleaning tools then it's better to stick with something that has everything on board. Also - metal brush bars are damaging to hard floors and carpet frames - they loosen the screws that keep frames in place - if you have them at door entrance thresholds to rooms.

As the owner of a previous Oreck XL - it is a good model - if you are after a high end priced carpet sweeper with a motor - because that's all it is. The Oreck is good for hotels because it is so lightweight and easy to get under low furniture. What I liked about it was initially its lightweight factor but it is VERY NOISY. I found it suffers from the following:

• Small motor means that the suction will weaken as the dust bags progressively get fuller - and the bags don't usually fill up to their 10.3 claimed capacity.
• Removing clogs is time consuming - you have to take apart the main spindle from the bottom of the vacuum, then the central spindle and then the dust channel routes towards the dust bag.
• The motor is not sealed inside, but rather protected by the thin plastic sole plate on the base of the vacuum's floor head/brush bar. Anything on a rough surface or any exposed screw heads in your floors can crack the plastic sole plate.
  
• There are no rear wheels on the Oreck exposed - this means that each time you want to store the vacuum away, you'll either have to suspend the handle down and push it to the desired location, or constantly lift it back to where it stores.
• It does not lay flat when made to go flat - the floor head doesn't lie flat when cleaning under low furniture.
  
• This is a dirty fan vacuum which basically means more damage can be done to the fan inside - and I had to replace mine with yet another plastic replacement. Commercial XL uprights have metal fans, so there's less damage. Clean air vacuums separate the suction channel from the sealed motor - and clean air systems means it is far easier to remove the clogs - like your disposed Sebo Felix!
  
• The side brushes constantly need to be replaced - constant ploughing through carpets and siding up to skirting boards means the brushes at the side get pushed or flattened, thus loosing their proper brushed action when it cleans the edges. Oreck sell replacements because they can make money from that.
• There are no additional filters on the Oreck bar the dust bag and dust can leak out of the bags despite their Saniseal claims. The outer dust bag can be machine washed but its time consuming!
• Depending on the model you do buy, check that dust bags have a slip in cartridge holder for the bags to lock into the dust channel inside the soft bag. Previous XL models suffered from a push on & lock dust channel that often brought the bag away from the force of the fan and thus coating the outer bag in dust.

To each their own with the Sebo Felix, but I'm 100% sure that vaccum was not for us.  I do appreciate you taking the time to provide some feedback.  Best Regards.

Hi fletch173,

I think you already answered the question yourself but here's my two cents.  The Oreck's not a bad deal.  Would Costco include the 12 disposable bags it supplies with an online sale? The bags are big in size, eight quarts, and you can clean a long time between bag changes. A package of eight HEPA filtraton bags sells for about $35.00 but because of size that amount of bags could carry you into the next year. There is also the option to use less expensive plain paper bags that run at about $25.00 per pack of eight.

Never having owned one, I'd wondered about Orecks for a good while and then got the chance to do public demos of the two-speed XL Insight and the XL Platinum Pilot at Sears during early spring 2011.  First the weight, about 9 and 10 pounds, is so cool.  They both perform well on rugs and bare floors.  The Magnesium is a newbie that I have not tried and if I were to I'd wait 'til I could find some reviews AND land it at a better price.

I liked the Oreck XL Pilot model especially because of the added pivot feature that makes the machine quite maneuverable for not only getting around things but under as well.

My only misgiving would be that the Costco version does not appear to use the new belt sold with the cleaners I demoed last year.  Called the Endurolife it was made of made of more durable material than rubber and didn't stretch.  To work with this new belt, the motors on the machines I demoed were designed to shut off if the brushroll jammed.  You just had to unplug and plug again to reset.  Bag changing is easy and the bags for the models I used sealed automatically when you removed them. 

Shop around as best you can to get the best price.  Sears didn't offer the best prices but was a lot better than the Oreck stores.  Has your wife seen the Oreck XL Pilot? Since she's already used an Oreck she might really like it.

The Ultimate Oreck Hand Vacuum is a neat little machine with HEPA.  It's bags sell for around 15 bucks for 12.  However the bags are small and the cleaner serves best for household duty only.

The URL for the Oreck XL Platinum Pilot's user guide is here http://www.oreck.com/PUG/79052-01_REV_A_PILOT_manual.pdf

Happy hunting,

Venson

 

What about the Hoover Platinum bagged upright? Is it really that bad?

vacmanuk wrote:
I have tried Oreck twice in my home.  Returned them each time.  The only positive for Oreck is the light weight.  Vacuum performance was little better than a Bissell sweeper (non electric).  I settled on the Hoover Platinum.  No way Oreck can touch it.  Also it has not had the belt/brush roll problem associated with Oreck.
My main dislike is having to have a hand held since it has no hose.  The Platinum hand held is noisy and the exhaust will blow away anything in its path.  However, it has tremendous suction.  I thought the Oreck hand held had very poor suction.

Just thought I would let everyone know that I purchased the Oreck XL ProPower Plus from Costco and we love it!  The vacuum is very light weight and cleans well enough for us and the handheld is light weight and has plenty of suction.  Sure, I wish I could find something this light with a brush roll that turns off, but no comparable model provides this.  I think the value/price Costco provides with their sale price of $248 is tremendous.  Included:  

Adjustable and padded shoulder strap

60" Flexible hose

Crevice tool

Circular Dusting brush

Large floor tool

Upholstery tool

Telescoping extension wand

Turbo brush (ideal for removing embedded pet hair)

2 - HEPA filters (one installed and one additional in the box)

2 - tune-ups on the upright

8 - HEPA odor fighting Upright bags 

12 - hypo-allergenic, double-wall Handheld Vacuum bags)

Accessory storage bag 

Also, my parents have the hoover light weight platinum being refereced above and we tried it and it is not bad.  I'm sure it cleans fine.  However, it is heavier than the Oreck and we prefered the Oreck's feel.  In fact, my parents even said they regret not purchasing an Oreck.  Also, the Hoover is priced at approx. $209 and for all you get with the Oreck at $248 from Costco with their excellent return policy if needed, the deal was too good to pass up.  Thanks to everyone for your input.   

Hi fletch,

Great to hear you found something you like.  Actually all that matter's is the indiviual owner purchasing the cleaner he or she LIKES to use.

Best,

Venson

HARDSELL wrote:

My God, Hardsell where have you been all this time?  How are you? Hope all is going great for the new year.  Anyway . . .

I had my misgivings but I've gained a bit of respect for the Oreck through use.  Mind you, I haven't gone out to buy one for myself but I do think they do the job and fit the bill for many now that there is this new phenomina come to light -- ask anybody to lift more than ten pounds and they look at you as though you're asking them to committ suicide.  (To think I took a liking to a 22-pound LG upright.  What was I thinking?)

While i doing demo duty, many longtime owners walking by would proudly step over just to say the Oreck they'd bought ten or more yeas ago was still running and cleaning well. 

As for the call for high power, it's a myth and not everybody needs it.  Besides which, big power is usually used to compensate for bad design.  All depends on the individual household and the kind of traffic it's subject to.  The needs in a home with kids and lots of company and the requirements of a home where life moves slowly are different.  The Ultimate Handheld didn't seem to lack much and a hurricane isn't neccessary just to clean a bathroom or kitchen floor, go over furniture or do window sills unless we're talking maybe about a houseful of pets. The upright's meant to handle bare floor as well as carpeting and did so well when I was showing them. There shouldn't be any real above the floor cleaning challenges for the handheld to meet but buyers should be made aware that the handheld is meant only for the most general household duty.  We did have have one customer come back to complain that it couldn't handle cleaning the several halls and stairways of the apartment building he owned; really a job for a full-sized vac.

My only beef about Oreck is pricing. The Oreck stores and some chain stores really go off the chart pricewise regarding the simple machine an Oreck actually is. The Hoover Platinum upright and handheld canister hold the trump card here due to not only good cleaning but usual price point advantage.

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson, I still read the forum.  I sort of lost desire to comment without Carmine around to dispute my statements  I really miss him. You and Carmine are two people that I really would like to meet.  All has been well for me and my family.  You have a great year also and may you always remain the gentleman that you are.

Venson wrote:
I sincerely hope you never have to own and run an Oreck XL - unless all you do all day is clean carpets and hard floors- hotels love them because they are so fast and lightweight but in the UK, most hotels use Sebo uprights or Henry canister vacs - even if they have suction only floor heads - the hoses and smaller tools cope better for detail cleaning, especially around the air conditioner vents in the rooms and of course crucial to keep standards up met by the hotel and quality assurance organisations. Of course if the Oreck in the UK was priced cheaper than the prices we have to endure currently (base model costs $309-42 from £199-99) which is the same price as a Sebo X1.1, then I'm sure British buyers would probably flock more to Oreck but the lack of a hose and on board cleaning tools is a major downside in my book and having to use an additional machine at the same time, is nothing more than a token gesture and one that would annoy me having to fish it out each time I want to clean dust out of radiator and heater vents.

I wouldn't agree with "big power is usually used to compensate for bad design," however. Look at our Miele vacuums where high power is a welcomed requisite. Maybe that's me though. Having tried bagged vacuums with low motors and especially in the case of the Oreck where the 10.3 litre capacity dust bags never filled right to the top in my experience, therefore being a bit of a waste of money on the bags alone, I'd say high/big power is welcomed - especially in the last stages of a bag when it's about to be replaced and when it's full as a brick. The only exception to the high power, justified full dust bag routine I've found is with the Sebo X1 Automatic/Sebo uprights - the bags fill right to the top, but that's another debate for another day!

Last night I watched an Oreck XL Power Team demo on idealshopping.TV (UK cable channel shopping channel) and wasn't particularly impressed with the still, too noisy motor. When I compared my old Oreck XL to our British Hoover Junior that had the same motor rating, the 23 year old Junior is much quieter when running and its a pity Hoover UK don't still sell the Junior model for stalwarts of what has gone on before. On the channel demo they did a pick up test with the XL on hard floors using bird seed, tea, garden soil and feathers. The woman claimed that the Oreck would pick it all up and it duly did - but beforehand when the bag flared up, the feathers and soil went running for their lives - a big downside with any outer soft bagged vacuum like the Oreck. Then they discovered that the Oreck XL wasn't picking up - it had clogged up. I was beside myself!

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk,

Sorry, but there is actually such a thing as overkill and so I maintain my feeling that gargantuan power is not always necessary to do good work come time to clean.  Despite our living in a "more's better" pushed society of consumers I continue to base vacuuming ability on all those American Electroluxes sold that ran for years on about 535 watts of power and did well in cleaning.  They did do well because of tool design.  Electrolux was not the only brand that used good design to promote good cleaning either.

Roiling the waters as it were by those looking to sell is one of the main drivers of our discontented cries for more and more worldwide.  The power thing is more often about moving product by leading consumers to think they'll somehow end up ahead of the game though they never do.  Not a great example, but offer a car with four, six or eight cylinder engines and ask what people what they'd like to have and the eight-cylinder will probably be their choice.  Most however, will opt otherwise not becuase the idea doesn't strike them as a nice one but due to the cost to run the biggest one.  (By the way, talk about the discontented, I just got an alert for an article where it's being claimed that vacuuming is harmful to our health.)   The end assessment was more or less that central vacuums that exhaust outside are "the answer".  So, you see the debate over which vacuum and what type could go on forever. 

This happens with everything.  I've been recently faced with having to research and think on buying either a 1,000-watt food processor or one that runs on 700 watts.  (My last machine was actually used slightly less power draw.) Did the idea of a thousand watts of juice prove -- pardon the pun -- a turn-on?  Oh yeah, but I decided to use a little common sense.  I of course used my previous food processor for everything and will do the same with its replacement.  But, after careful thought, I decided 1,000 watts of power might be fine for a household larger than mine and that I can live without it.  I'm not running a restaurant.  If I have any reason to require handling amounts of food larger than I ordinarily do I can just split a big  recipe into batches and do just fine.

As far as vacuums in general go, there are any number of machines that I'll not be buying that someone else will find suits their need -- and likes -- to a tee.  I think Riccar's and Simplcity's lightweight uprights are more noisy than Oreck but Riccar/Simplicity apparently hasn't gone broke yet.

Whatever we choose, I can most assuredly say we do not need diswashers or washing machines that go to the max by way of power and water consumption.  This also applies to vacuum cleaners and any number of the appliances we're being encouraged to use.  As for my Miele, I don't always switch to high or really need to all the time.  As I've stated before, I give the floors a quick going over two to three times a week -- more to have something to do than because of real need.  If the Marines stop here during maneuvers, yes, I prepared but I have had no such worry thus far. I only worry about switching to top speed if there's been an inordinant amount of sandy stuff from outside tracked in on a given day.  That doesn't happen here often as I also have mats inside and out to catch most of that stuff.  A $30 stick vac can serve here just as well in between regualr cleanings.

The  problem here in America and other parts of the world where we still have the option to indulge ourselves is that we've yet to come to a true understanding of what "enough" is.   I think if we did we could better define the difference between that which is luxury and that which is "cheap" and possibly save ourselve a dollar or two here and there by knowing the good stuff at the middle line.

Venson wrote:
Indulging is a good word to use, but not where all appliances are concerned. In the UK eco friendly appliances like large ones - dishwashers and washing machines aren't expensive when they use up little water compared to Miele and expensive to buy brands. The shoe as it were, is turned on the other foot where efficiency and running cost is concerned. What we seem to do in the UK is have machines that are eco-friendly but are then limited on the specs, forcing the buyer to indulge in extra wash programs, even if they will never use them. But then, large appliances run up electricity bills - vacuum cleaners do not even though some brands go to extra lengths to produce Eco branded models.

Although I've preached to how good our old Hoover Junior is that used a 400 watt motor, it's suction through the hose was feeble and not of much use. It got so bad that at one point Which UK in the 1980s put a public warning about Hoover tool kits that just weren't worth the money when the power was so low and suction through the hose was pretty weak. You may not always switch to high or low power on your Miele - but at least you have the opportunity to - the Oreck doesn't have an onboard tool system - and it wouldn't saddle the machine with extra weight if Oreck actually researched what other brands are doing - with light rubber hoses and lightweight plastic tools - look at Sebo's K series where the tubing is lighter than Miele.  This would make the vacuum cleaner a much more versatile machine than it is - instead of saddling owners to whip out an extra canister vacuum when they want to clean above the floor line.

Busy parents, young couples with daily time limits and professional singletons who work long hours just won't put up with having to use two vacuums for dry dirt collection in a daily cleaning session. You've mentioned that life is slower - but not as far as I'm concerned, or the amount of buyers I've met who want something instant to do the job of vacuuming dirt up and if they choose an upright they'll usually go for models with on board tools and hoses, even if some are too short. Many who can't be bothered to clean manually go for the Roomba option but then discover they can't clean the boots/ you guys call it "trunk" I think/ of their cars or for that matter, getting under car seats and areas they used to access with a hose.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi,

There's a difference in energy requirements as regards the FREE flow of air and the forced movement of air.  When we harness air for work the latter is more likely the case.

Suction is always lost due to design AND no way to get around it -- plain old  physics.  Even with our new, near jet-engine powered clean-air vacs the same applies.  The more you extend the distance between the point where suction is actually applied and the fan(s) that generate it loss begins.  Add onto that twists, turns and tubing that promote friction plus points of connections that heighten possibility of air leaks and you never avail yourself of the full power of the unit's suction fan.  That's why all the extra power is called for.  It compensates for all that's lost in the name of conveniences built in to make us consumers feel warm and fuzzy about the product.  Not to mention that you need power to compensate for the airflow impediment that the HEPA and other filtering medium may add though there for our comfort and safety.

Your Hoover Jr. was here too.  If I get into series names. I'll surely get into trouble but there was initially the all-metal ones with the famous beater bars but relatively narrow cleaning paths that led to later versions called the Lark that had a standard-size upright's  cleaning swath.  They eventually disappeared and the Lark became the name for a Hoover stick vac, also out of Britain.  The UK version had a tool kit but ours didn't offer much in that area.  However save for the very last, the Larks with revolving brushes had basically the same attachment set up -- an adapter that directly hooked onto the fan port after the belt for the brushroll was slipped off the drive shaft.  The hose locked onto the adapter.  That's about as good as you can get for a low wattage machine.  We had lots of brands of 300 to 400 watt full-sized uprights that used the same sort of tool hook-up.  Even Hoover did in the beginning. Not many compared to canisters that were a couple hundred watts more but -- none of the canisters compared to those uprights for rug cleaning.  Howeverf . . .

We went years here without any warning -- or apology -- that regular size Hoover upright's tools weren't worth much.  I'm speaking of course of the tool kits that hooked up via an adapter which got the user around having to remove the drive belt for he agitaor.  The problem was finally addressed not with a "fix" but the hard-bodied, clean air Hoover Dial-A-Matic.  However, that is not to say that the prior models were bad cleaners but that above the floor work was not what they were "designed" for.  They were made to clean carpeting and tool sets were more an after thought.  Many people that could use a vacuum cleaner, then and even now still say, "What do I need one for?  I don't have any rugs."

I don't believe I said life is slower.  I meant to convey that the indiviual lives of consumers move at differnet paces and each has its unigue requirements. what's good for my home may not be good for yours.  That is why high-powered machinery is not always necessary.  As for vacuum "teams"  like Oreck and Hoover's Platinum series -- an upright and say an easily portable canister -- they can well suit the home of a single occupant or a full family.  Some of the best things I learned about housework came from my now gone  Aunt Lucy.  For one, while in the kitchen cooking, keep a sinkful of water and detergent at hand so that you can wash up the utensils you using as you go along.  It gets you out of the kitchen faster if you don't have a dishwasher.  Next thing was, do it when you see it.  Tending to small things as they come into notice rather than waiting and lumping them all together on a Saturday can save you from  facing cleaning days that call for everything to be done.  Where is this going?  A decent lightweight vac and an equally decent portable can make tending to different duties easy not hard AND not impractical.

If you think furiture needs a quick spiffying up one small machine can quickly be gotten of the closet and be put back in iminutes when the job's done.  The same for floors, with the right euipment, why walk in and think, "What am I going to do about this rug?" Do it then.  Unless you're living in something the size of the Taj Mahal, a lightweight can be out and the problem can be solved in in ten or fifteen minutes IF you're more or less religious about regular vacuuming.  If you're not, that's where your work will come from.  Not waxing romantic or anything but the light vacuum teams also promote the sharing of work.  Someone can take care of a specific task in one place in the homme while the other can get on with other vacuuming needs elsewhere.  As well a machine a kid can handel -- after being taught it's careful use -- is great.  They can learn ot work along with you and they will also learn how to manange tasks that they'll be doing one day for themselves.

For those of us living on our own, maintenance by way of taking things on as they come cab be quite aided by these smaller vacs.  You don't have to lug out a heavier counter part if all yu want to do is go over the rug or give furniture a fast going over.  I the price is right, that kind of convenience is almost luxury. 

Almost forgot -- check this out: http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/778/reliable-kirby-vacuum-sweeps-away-most-of-the-competition/

Venson

Well, if you go by what you say that suction is always lost due to design, and onto the twists, turns and tubing that promote friction…thus leading or at least contributing to possible air leaks, you will agree that some brands buck the trend. A low energy vacuum cleaner that has sealed suction - one brand I can think of is the SEBO X / Windsor Sensor series. They don't sell on high power - they're not that powerful - but they do sell on the reliability, design and longevity. If you've repaired them then you'll know they aren't the best for accessing the belt if it does go - but beyond that the X is a pretty serviceable machine that the owner can do themselves. I bet there's a numerous amount of machines where the same can't be said.

As for the Junior, yep I forgot the U.S had the Lark. You guys had the best of Hoover of course being U.S origin and we had the same model as your Dial A Matic, albeit in simpler form called the Junior Compact/Junior Deluxe that lacked the variable suction dial at the back. There were UK Dial-A-Matic's too but they sold in low numbers. The adaptor to the fan was the best solution for suction but Hoover UK went and dulled the design on their last Junior U1104 models by giving it a flat adaptor that snaps onto the permanently moving brush roll plate, thus the suction would have to travel further for it to meet the dust channel on the suction plate and being farther away from the fan. Dust inevitably just used to lie on the surface of the adaptor plate and not being sucked up into the machine.

Certainly if I lived in the U.S I'd probably find life very easy - your homes are naturally bigger than ours, most have Air con where we don't and compared to the U.S, the U.K is a very damp country. As a vacuum cleaner enthusiast however, I'd probably find it harder to keep one vacuum due to the myriad of brands and models you've had through the years and where pricing is concerned, mostly cheaper than the UK, although our previous posts on here show that the German brands are cheaper in the UK than the U.S A fact of life, probably for the moment.

However, whilst you meant to convey that the individual lives of consumers move at different paces, the young generation today are displaying a very lacklustre attitude to mostly everything unless it's offered up on a plate, that they do very little work to get where they need to and in terms of cleaning, I've had some real eye openers. From watching a girl hunch over with a cylinder vacuum because she didn't know the suction pipes could be adjusted for height, to a male worker who thought running over the power cord with an upright (and its brush roll turning) was always safe to do.

Interesting info about your Aunt - my mum was taught very similar to you and my mum taught me. I was training up a young man the other day about washing dishes - he was taught to wash the dishes in hot water and washing up liquid before letting the dishes drain. Not for me - because even after you let the dishes drain, there's always the chance they'll still have washing up liquid coated on them - and I've fried up onions before in a frying pan that had the most unusual smell of Melon enhanced detergent and olive oil - NOT NICE. He was most surprised when I asked him to rinse the dishes in a separate basin before drying them or letting them sit to air dry.

Similarly, when I was his age, living away from home and studying i had to live with a set of guys, one of whom was the worst for cleanliness and used to (without a word of a lie) boil wash his underpants in a stove pot on the cooker and used the microwave to dry the clothing!!! My point is this - even if lifestyle products are taking over from standard means of appliances that were once seen as labour saving - many UK buyers don't go for upright vacuums that don't have a hose on them. The U.S are different, U.S buyers are different and it's not a bad thing or a good thing - but at least we all have a choice as to what we can buy. It just so happens however that the U.S has a larger amount of older, dirty fan low wattage vacuums than the U.K.

Lastly your report link was a good read. Good to see a lot of different brands - but interesting that of those shown - none were bagless.

vacmanuk wrote:

HI vacmanuk,

Dishes should always be well-rinsed after they've been washed -- where is this kid from?  BUT, I have to admit, I've dried a pair or two of socks in the microwave.

I should mention that our "milk and honey" days dried up a long time ago -- we're just not ready to believe it yet.  Some do have spacious homes but lots do not and, whether owners or renters, lots of comprises over what you'd like as opposed to what you've actually got to work with are made literally by the hour.  There is indeed a wide choice of acoutrements for the home here BUT they have to be paid for.  Due to general climate, depending upon where you live, and also climate change for some an air conditioner is almost a necessity.  The height of that necessity is added onto if factoring in those more to susceptible to problems because of elevated heat --  the elderly and young children.  Nonetheless, the buck doesn't stop with the purchase of one.  In New York City, a hot summer while living in a small one-bedroom apartment cost around $150 in electricity per month to run a 6,000 BTU unit -- a small machine.  I can't imagine what it costs to run a home's central air conditioning through a whole summer.

Large appliances may be highly attractive due to being more energy efficient these days but most cost and arm and a leg to buy.  Imagine needing to shell out well over a thousand dollars, sometimes nearly $2,000, for a refrigerator, or  clothes washer or kitchen range when your job situation is shaky or you don't know where the next job's coming from. 

Though it wouldn't hurt them to bone up on cooking basics, our young people here are indeed facing all sorts of challenges though seeming a little too laid back but I think they're taking the sensible approach.  They're trying to make the best out of what they've got as they attempt to get by. They have a lot to worry about.  Fallout from the bad economy and job market -- which still is no great shakes-- remains a hard hit for kids and everyone else here from all economic strata.  I know lots of people, both the young as well as the more mature, who have been actively seeking work not for months but a couple of years and have still not found  jobs.  There's lots of kids, just out of school or leaving soon, wondering where are they going to go?

That said, average consumers' vacuum cleaner choices may be becoming more  limited than we might think not by lack of availibility but directly because of cost.  Take my word for it, coaxing encouragements to spend a little extra and "buy ahead" don't wash well these days.  As far as price goes these days it is difficult to get a lot of consumers willing to pass the $200 mark when looking for a new machine. 

Venson

The UK is pretty much the same - in terms of buyers for vacuums - they don't want to spend anymore than £100 on a machine ($153) and if they are pushed to buy Dyson then they'll go for it (up to $595 or just over $650) and treat it like an investment. Where our large appliances are concerned, washers and dishwashers start around the £199 price range and go all the way to £2539-00 ($304 to $3884) refridgerators go for completely different prices, thanks to your influence (not yours personally, but the U.S style "grande" sized fridge/freezer combination.) The most expensive and largest is a range from a company called Sub Zero and it costs £12,500 (you could buy a car for that kind of cash) equivalent to $19125.00

Our 3 month electricity bill usually amounts to £749 ($1149) on average (including power), and that's because Scotland continually has cold weather, rainy for most days and prevents clothing from being hung outside, or being frozen to the washing line. Also it's very cold all around the year but our summers are very short, so at least there's a good respite of not using any heating as it's usually warm enough to get by without it. But for the most part it's quite expensive to run. The cost of gas used to be cheaper but because it's more precious to get out of the ground, can be additionally expensive to run all the time.

I've managed to get the bill down to £400/£500 however simply by using as little electric light as possible, energy saving lights, low motor powered vacuums (even if the SEBO and Miele models I have have high power, they can be used in the lowest rating) and only using the dishwasher maybe once or twice a week. The washing machine now only gets used once every 2 weeks to try and go through all the clothing I have rather than stick to my favourites and ignore the rest!

vacmanuk wrote:

I think electrical rates are better where I am now than in New York but there has been a trade-off -- I'm now paying for water.  (just once I'd like to feel I came out ahead In some spots I'm told, you not only rent and pay  for water and electricity for light, heating and cooling but trash removal too.  At least I don't have to call "Rent a Frog" or "Lease  a Owl"  -- they're included in the deal for free.

As for cleaning equipment choices, there seems to be only a very limited amount of bona fide vacuum shops in my area -- I'm talking for miles.  Everyone appears to be taking what Wal-Mart has to give here though there must be a Kirby guy somewhere around as I notice them turning up for sale as pre-used regularly.

Wasn't the UK Hoover Junior our Lightweight (USA version)?

Seems like that Lightweight wasn't too popular here?

hooverman wrote:

They of course were lighter but I think compactness was more the sell point -- the near wallop of a full-sized Hoover, beater-bars and all, but easier to tuck away.  The cleaning swath was narrower, for most of the line, and I don't think that garnered much enthusiasm.  "Will it clean," was more the question than, "How heavy is it," during the time the Hoover Convertible was king of the hill. 

Venson

Venson wrote:
The Hoover Junior (or Lark as it was known in the States) was a fantastic seller for Hoover in the U.K, not least Scotland where the Cambuslang factory churned out many. We had them, my grandmother had them and nothing else beat it at the time for carpet dust pick up. It was still at that period of vacuums where people bought uprights for carpets and canisters for suction above the floor and hard floors. The Electrolux Z500 series didn't even come close even though it was a true upright with a hose connection and was better for fitting than the Junior/Lark's hose at the front, and it was a Clean Fan system compared to Hoover's dirty fan. WHICH UK testing still recommended Hoover uprights though! Quite literally we Brits fell in love with the VW Beetle-esque style and the Art Deco models before that and of the slogan "it beats-as it sweeps- as it cleans." Buyers for canisters were more then likely dabbling with Electrolux rather than going out for the also, dearly beloved Portable and "Connie" Constellation models. Loosely based on the Convertible, there was the Senior - we had one of those and I recall my mother preferring the Junior because it was lighter to handle and get around the carpets. We even had the last modern version in the 1980's, a U1104 model which at last was made in plastic exterior that made it a bit lighter to carry as well as a flat drive belt and a top fill dust bag, although the U1012 older style machines had a top fill bag.

I've often loved the Junior - it was effectively the vacuum I grew up with. The U.S then fell in love with the horrendous Boss uprights with the "Back Saver" handle in the 1980's. Many Brits weren't convinced of those - we had better Electrolux models by then!

As Venson points out, the Junior/Lark was lighter- but U.S homes have always been bigger than the U.K and everything else.

Ok, I haven't exactly read all of the responses, cause this caught my eye and was signing out, but given that I am a vacuum enthusiast and technician, I have worked on Orecks and the riccar/simplicity supralite/freedom and will say that even with the base supralite/freedom, you have better cleaning power than the oreck. The riccar/simplicity vacs use the same motor through out the 5 variants, the only differences are having a switch on the handle or having one on the body, having the multi speed switch, having a wooden brushroll, having a metal brush roll, having a hall sensor (jam detection) and having paper bags or micron filtered bags. The fans and motors are the exact same, so the rsl1 cleans the same as the rsl5 when the rsl5 is on high, the differences are the cloth collection bag vs the paper, the metal brush roll with replaceable strips, the hall sensor and the multi speed switch on the handle.

The riccar/simplicity models handle hair and other debris better than the orecks because the fan has a deeper fin with a tighter curve shape to deflect objects and keep hair from winding up.


I own an oreck commercial XL, an RSL3 and an RSL5... Would take the riccars over the orecks any day...

jkbmmv wrote:

Someone finally answered the question, Riccars blow Orecks away if U can stand the noise lol, or buy the 2 speed and run on low.

jkbmmv wrote:

vacman2 wrote:
I have to agree that Tacony's  Freedom/Supralite upights are very good and perform very well.  I have said this from their beginning.  What I have to ask is, have you tried the other Oreck residential uprights?  They make other series of uprights like the Pilot series(mentioned earlier in the thread), which started out as the XL21,  and the Edge upright. 

We are Oreck fans

You cannot pass a general judgement as to which vacuum is better than another. Each performs well if put to use for the purpose for which it has been manufactured. While the light weight vacuums are easy to move, they have limited suction power; the heavier machines, though a little inconvenient in moving around, come with high suction power. While there are vacuums which are designed to clean pet hair, others are good on carpet cleaning. Hence, depending on your requirements and your abilities, choose a vacuum that suits your requirements.