Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I actually played with one at Lowes the other day. Overall, I liked the design, but the foam pre-filter is crap compared to Dyson's recent pre-filter design (which is also featured on the Hoover Platinum Cyclonic and Panasonic/Kenmore canisters...but I suppose its washable HEPA filter makes up for it. http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/ Highlights: - 14 foot cleaning reach - LED headlight - "Ball-like" swivel action - Metal Soleplate - 5 year warranty - $299

Carmine;

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Mike W.
Moderator

Typically AEG is taking on the Nimble in the UK. Seems that the higher end/more modern rivals are being used by Electrolux's other brand to "reinstate German engineering". Arrives in the UK by May 2011.

It seems to me that a crucial point of this debate has not yet been fully articulated. No one vacuum cleaner CAN do it all, nor could it ever be so engineered until A) BOTH batteries and cords are eliminated and the vacuum operates from a Tesla generator that draws electricity from the aether and B) the dirt is either teleported to a disposal site, or dismantled at the atomic level to provide it's own power. Those two points solve the weight/power issue with respect to the size of the motor and the size of the dirt container, leaving ample room for a full set of on board tools. Back to our current understanding of reality.

The present understanding of the laws of physics compels a recognition of two distinct types of above the floor cleaning 1) on the fly as in the stray piece of popcorn behind a chair, a cobweb, or crumbs on a chair/sofa and 2) thorough cleaning of all surfaces that are not carpeting or area rugs.  The on board hose of an upright lends itself to the first type and not to the second because a) it does not roll like a canister with a tug of the hose (the new Miele S7 is a PARTIAL exception to this caveat because its hose locks down, keeping the pull exerted  at a low center of gravity) b) the hose of necessity is of the stretch variety which collapses when suction is applied with an upholstery or crevice tool. The hose must be managed with BOTH hands so the hose can be used to make even strokes on upholstery or along the edge of a floor. Longer stretch hoses don't really help, just have more length to collapse. Longer regular hoses mean more hose to store on board,more weight, more to undo when needed, taking more time to replace on the cleaner when finished with the task. The new Miele canister stretch extension hose is brilliant, but has the limitation (for the moment, at least) of not being usable with an electric hose/nozzle assembly, but the discussion is still about uprights. Full size attachment kits offer more convenience in the attachment mode but require the conversion, which users complain about bitterly, especially with regard to the Kirby, the most complete and thorough conversion of all, taking in to account reach, number of tasks, and true portability. The separate portable canister offers lighter weight for both machines, since the canister does not need to clean carpets, and does not need wheels, but again, consumers complain about having to go get the second cleaner. The original Bissell LIft Off was a good idea, but it was bulky do to the fact that the bag compartment had to be large enough to accommodate a full size upright's carpet cleaning capability.  Taking all of this in to account leads us to Oreck's development of the Edge. They have distilled the on board tools concept down to what people really use it for: quick grabs of stray debris the upright cannot reach. A longer hose and more tools would defeat the purpose. Oreck's research (remember some Oreck stores did repairs on all makes and models) revealed that even with owning an upright with on board tools, a great many consumers still use a separate canister for their above the floor cleaning. Those who do not tend do much less thorough above the floor cleaning. Many, many uprights come in for repair missing their tools, but people still like them for their ability to grab stray debris on the fly. That is the one strength of an on board, instant on hose with an attached wand, that and nothing else. When I tried the Edge, it gripped the carpet better than any other Oreck, ever, on all carpet types. It maneuvered well, and the instant on board hose with attached flex crevice tool did well for what it was intended. I predict Hoover will imitate Oreck's advance as soon as the patent expires, or they can find a way around it. The Sharp bagless upright was brilliant in that the hose/floor suction was diverted back and forth with a foot pedal. One could actually operate the cleaner with the upright's handle in one hand and the wand in the other and simply flip back and forth from floor to hose, hose to floor  without even raising the handle to the full upright position, but no additional hose could be easily attached/removed. Most of the Panasonic, Riccar, Simplicity, etc uprights with on board tools are equipped with a port for a hose to accommodate a full set of tools. Not a bad compromise at all, easily designed, and it limits the trips to retrieve the hose and tools to those times when they are really needed. I think combining this approach with the Sharp diverter valve would be brilliant. Mention must be made of the Hoover concept with the on-board hand vac, nice try, but no wand to reach with, and not enough power for deep cleaning.

What about canisters? Well, the quick release wand from a power nozzle still leaves a metal wand to lift, and a metal edge to ding and scratch walls if one is not careful. The new Panasonic power head with built in bare floor brush looks brilliant, but the jury is still out on its durability. Some have complained it is difficult to re-insert the brush onto the nozzle base. Separate plastic wands are a good idea, but they don't ride along with the rest of the tools. Telescopic aluminum electric wands offer the best compromise so far, points to MIele, but still not as light as plastic wands.

The debate revolves around a few key points, which is why there is no one best vacuum for everyone. Six people faced with the same cleaning challenges might very well make six completely different choices of cleaning equipment.

1) How many different kinds of cleaning do you have to accomplish?
2) How do you prefer to do them (or not)?
3) What is most convenient for you?
4) Convenience, Power, Price: pick two and compromise on the third

I have not used it, or read reviews but the videos of Beam's new central vac hose look intriguing. It expands from 13ft to double it's length.

vacmanuk wrote:
Electrolux is the premium brand in the U.S., while Eureka is the not so premium brand for them. 

The Nimble is now available in many retail locations, so people should not have a problem looking at them up close and personal.

Trebor wrote:
Good to hear from another perspective, however it's more of the "new fangled" swivel that's got everyone talking on an upright vacuum, namely the Nimble.

The Miele hose extender/flexhose is a good idea IN THEORY although it has metal coils which can be bent out of shape compared to the standard Miele hose which has none - I know - I have it - the extender hose also  snaps back too easily unless you are cleaning with the wand upwards thus allowing it to drop down and when fully stretched, cuts suction power unless the Miele used has the full maximum suction dialled in. You still get reduced suction though when the flexhose/extender hose is stretched out.

I think there is a perfect vacuum cleaner - it's just that everyone is in a democracy to choose their own and decide from then what's perfect for them.

As for canisters. Never mind bruising the home with metal wands - its the hoses - long hoses that wriggle and bang off painted walls that causes the most damage, a fact that some brands are now taking on board by making the hoses shorter and the tubes long - Bosch for example do this whilst SEBO's electric wand is lighter than Miele's tubing either with the electric wire attached or not.

In terms of different choices of cleaning equipment, the debate has already been discussed on another forum I'm a member of - it doesn't involve vacuum cleaners but general day to day aspects. One of the aspects about "modern life," a lot of UK people have noticed is the increase of pollution and dirt in the home compared to the 1970's. Sand and dust seem to be the major concerns, one of the very reasons to why many households nowadays have two vacuums - a cylinder for "cleaning out the car or above the floor line," and a heavy upright if living with loads of carpeting. It may not be in the same in the U.S given the high cost of vacuums generally, but there's very little difference between owning a canister and an upright when you own a dust buster and another vacuum cleaner you consider to be the main machine that collects lifestyle dust. You still have more than one vacuum in the home.

It is also the case in the UK that many households still prefer a seperate washing machine and a seperate dryer. Washer/dryer combination machines suffer from elements that burn out too early on, loading problems - particularly from big weight loads the machine can take but has to have clothing taken out for a smaller amount of load possible. Washer/dryers are good for limited space but most people still prefer having the separate units - which makes a lot more sense if you have the space available as well as being less cost in the long term.

If Dyson is to release an upgraded ‘ball’ model in the near future, chances are it’ll look similar to a flurry of patents made public this week. This shows a design with the air ducting now running through the centre of the ‘ball’. Presumably, each half of the ‘ball’ can turn independently. It’s possible this design would be Dyson’s first to use their Digital Motor; with the ducting they’d really be cramming a lot of components inside that sphere. The patents also mention a revised handle design, with the aim of improving steering.

 

By the looks of it, the new Dyson Ball will use a slightly enlarged version of the motorhead used on the DC35 stick vac with a smaller motor, and thinner brushroll compared to that of the current DC25.....although these could be patent drawings for the successor of the DC24, not DC25.

iMacDaddy wrote:
As with the DC24 / DC25, the cleaner head is fully removable by the user and hence a range of market variants *could* be produced, if required, regardless of what is shown in these drawings.

It is a question, if it would be available in small and large models, like with the DC24 / DC25. If it’s using a conventional motor, this would be challenging for a smaller model. But if using the Dyson Digital Motor v2, as used in the Digital Slim, more feasible. Although one further point – these drawings show a post motor filter cover and hence suggest a conventional brushed motor, for a full-sized cleaner model at the very least.

Be interesting to see if the Dyson Digital Motor (V2) will appear in the New Ball and if a large and small versions will be produced like the DC24 and DC25. Looking at the drawings (does the patent show any more drawings!?) will be new type of ball design be a flexible as previous models? I'm liking the new design looks like there may be a new kind of Cyclone bin and pre motor filter looking a the air duct!? DC18

M00seUK wrote:

I should note that the DC22 canister had a removable, washable HEPA filter, and it too had the Dyson Digital Motor.