Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I actually played with one at Lowes the other day. Overall, I liked the design, but the foam pre-filter is crap compared to Dyson's recent pre-filter design (which is also featured on the Hoover Platinum Cyclonic and Panasonic/Kenmore canisters...but I suppose its washable HEPA filter makes up for it. http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/ Highlights: - 14 foot cleaning reach - LED headlight - "Ball-like" swivel action - Metal Soleplate - 5 year warranty - $299

Thanks iMacDaddy,

This machine reminds me of my Miele Tango only it's bagless.  It also also uses a hose and wand set up similar to the LG upright.  And they've put it out for only $299.00?

The user manual is here: http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/FileLibrary/038b49897b1a4155824ecce4225b1898/en_EL8602A_OwnersManual.pdf

Best,

Venson

Personally and professionally I prefer the swivel and twist features offered by ORECK [Pivot] MIELE [Twist] and now Electrolux Nimble over the archaic ball dyson has used since 2005 with DC15.  James Dyson is still thinking wheel barrows rather than vacuums.  In case he and his army of engineers doesn't realize it, there's a big difference.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I suppose we could say that Dyson got the ball rolling.  Without the help of the army of engineers to put thought into design Oreck would still be the same as it was on the ARK.  OLD AND ANTIQUATED playing on old folks to buy their propoganda.  Oreck is the Bose of vacuums.  Great marketing and out of date products.

HARDSELL wrote:

I agree dyson is a company with great marketing and out of date products.   What has it introed lately?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
What is out of date about Dyson products.  The only new vacs on the market are Dyson copies.  You say the ball started in 2005.  How old is the Oreck?????  The only thing current in the Oreck line is either a Dyson copy or a purchase of another line.  Ol Dave and family pay bare wages and sell at exorbitant prices.  No engineers to worry about.  Sir James invests in product design rather than hoarding all the profits. 

Do you find yourself having to dust after running the Oreck since it only stirs up surface dust as opposed to pulling it into the bag?

I am starting to get lots of Dyson $#%* in for repair. I'm also finding out I'm not the only one. Seems the wiring "harness" that runs along side of the ball in the yoke is splitting wires and shorting out the PH and blowing PCB boards. I have to say I am SHOCKED at how thin and fragile the wiring is.

What you can't write the word B a l l s?

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1

Almost one year ago, the authorized dyson warranty dealer in Las Vegas told me he/his store refused to sell any new DC25 models because the motor wiring harness fails within just a few months of the sale.  The wire is thread thin and the constant back and forth jerky motion of the ball movement breaks it in short order and the motor stops running.  I asked back then here on this Forum if there was a recall/workaround by dyson for the problem but no dyson authority spoke up and out.  The lack of response to my post gave me the conspicous answer.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Again I ask what has dyson designed and produced lately?

Carmine D.

Thats a shame to hear about the problem with Dyson DC25 wire harness. Ive had my Dyson DC24 for over a year now and it gets a lot of use and has been fine so far.

I suppose though that vacuum cleaner stores and repair centres get to hear about the problems with machines as they have the unfortunate job of having to deal with the customer when they return back.

Its a pity its taken so long since so many other brands have already launched swivelling uprights like...

The SEBO Felix The Miele S7 The Hoover Slalom

bucks03 wrote:

Hello bucks03:

Dyson dropped the ball with DC25.    Pun intended.

Carmine D.

Hello Venson: Yep, $299 is the going rate for the green unit over at Lowes right now, even though the Electrolux website listed a $399 MSRP. Honestly, even if Electrolux forced Lowes to bump up the price another $100, it would still be a much better value than the Dyson DC25 Animal at $549. One particular Lowes associate remarked that he thought that the Nimble is better constructed than the Dyson, doesn't feel as flimsy and twisty at the handle, looks more upscale, and was surprised by the price and warranty of the machine when they first arrive [I think Electrolux is now bumping up their warranty coverage from two years to five years on most of their popular machines]. I definitely like the looks of this machine -- I really get a "Miele S7" vibe from its exterior (It's actually how I imagined that patented bag-less Miele that never game to fruition). Hopefully, the Nimble will get proper marketing.

WRT Electrolux Nimble price, Lowe's typically runs "Black Friday Sales" in the spring, as does its chief competitor Home Depot.  In large part because customers are shaking off the frugal fatigue of winter hibernation and readying their homes and yards for a more busy social life and therefore needed and wanted improvements.  May be able to get an additional 10-20 percent off the Nimble during these spring sales.

Carmine D.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Hi IMacDaddy,

Thanks for the very descriptive pictures.  Pricepointwise, I think some of the new bagless uprights will give Dyson a run for the money due to features not found on a lot of what Dyson has on the market.  Simple things like carpet height adjustment, switchable motor speeds and easier attachment use.

IM well impressed with those pictures and I love the design buttons etc. Sadly I can see that with the handle downwards and with so much excess bulk it wouldn't appeal to me for getting under low furniture whilst the vent at the front would probably annoy the heck out of me, blowing papers around.

Lowe's has a video of the Electrolux Nimble on its web site.

http://www.lowes.com/pl_Electrolux_4294810320+4294965194_40_?cm_cr=Vacuums++Floor+Care-_-Web+Activity-_-Vacuums+CR+Popular+Brands-_-SC_Vacuums++Floor+Care_CenterRail_Area3-_-97617_3_Pop_Brands_Electrolux

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
According to http://www.lowes.com/pd_302662-73823-EL8505A_4294810314+4294836463_4294937087_?productId=1244193&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Upright_4294810314%2B4294836463_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&facetInfo=Upright&state=R#prod-tabs

This upright has poor quality, clogs easily, poor warranty and not durable. Looks like I'd stick with the Dyson if I had to go bagless.

vacmanuk wrote:

Vacmanuk, that would be your privilege.  Although I would expect more from you.  Why?  As all here would tell you including me, the very same lacklustre and even horrible reviews and ratings could and would be found for every single dyson model too in the on line reviews.  Save maybe DC28 which sells for $600.  And I wouldn't swear that to be true for that model either.  Why?

Back in June 2010, I asked a BEST BUY staff member to use a DC14 after he thoroughly vacuumed an area of BB's rug with a DC28.  Lo and behold, he picked up more dirt from the rug.  Surprise surprise. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
We all know that any vac used after another will continue to pick up dirt. Unless it is deeply embedded then the Oreck will not.

HARDSELL wrote:

See, I knew eventually after reading over and over again even you would learn it.  The vacuum that goes last always win.  The BEST BUY associate/staffer learned that lesson too, after I showed him.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Is there any other kind of embedded?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Well, Carmine you did provide the link after all. I was just shocked to see a couple of negatives. We'll see over time how the Nimble will do - and whether it ever reaches the UK.

CarmineD wrote:
Look it up before embarrassing yourself.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello Vacmanuk:  The operative word is "couple."  Probably the most reviewed vacuum on line is the HOOVER TEMPO.  Retails for $50-$80.  I've bought/used both the TEMPO models, previously made in Mexico and now in China.  For all intents and purposes, both are identical.  Consumer Reports for years and years [probably 10 plus] rated the HOOVER TEMPO a BEST BUY and in the top 10 for highest rated uprights.  The most recent CR, dated March 2011, rated HOOVER TEMPO a 71 vice the highest rated upright which is the HOOVER WT Anniversary model scoring 73.  TEMPO was Number 4 behind KENMORE's $260 Intuition and MIELE's $550 S7 Twist.  But CR much to my chagrin, refused to rate TEMPO a BEST BUY.

About 98 percent rated TEMPO 4 or 5 stars out of 5 stars.   For the 2 plus percent that "hated" it, called it cheap, flimsy, in need of belts once/twice a year, etc, etc..  These are the same kind of people who would complain if the Queen of England knighted them, let them live free in the Palace, provided all their food and clothing, health needs and gave them a yearly stipend of $100,000 to live, use of a Bentley, but had to walk 2 minutes to the bathroom.     

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

You should follow your own advice.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

hi,

found this thread online and when i first found it a couple of days ago I could pull up this link to the vacuum on Lowe's. sounded great for what I needed but then the next day suddenly it is no longer available on Lowes or anywhere else for that matter. Anyone know what's up?

thanks

Karen

karenAM wrote:

Hi Karen:

I was at Lowe's yesterday and it was on display and stocked on the shelf.  However, true to form for Lowe's and stores like it when it comes to vacuums, it was missing the top of the dirt bin container [brand new], and when I plugged in there was no suction.  After several minutes of running, examining, and testing, with 2 Lowe's persons in close sight and earshot, and not receiving any request for assistance, I politely placed the plug protector back on, wrapped up the cord, and stored back away on the display.  Waiting a bit longer around the aisle and still no interest.   So I went forth and bought what I needed and left.  A lost $300 sale.

BTW, I did check out the Kobalt canister for $100 in another aisle [and talked about here recently].  It was 10 foot up in the air on a shelve display tied down and unable to be used and perused by customers.  Another lost sale. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Yes Carnine, but you're forgetting that the Lux Nimble has only been out on the market for a short time - compared to the Hoover Tempo. I didn't expect to see that many negative reviews on a product so new.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk:

Tempo has been here for a long time.  I'm always suspect about bad reviews right off the bat.  I opine an ulterior motive.  Why?  If the buyer doesn't like it, it usually goes back to the store/retailer in short order and the user never bothers to post a poor review.  If a poor review has been posted after the user has had a awhile say 4-6 months and longer, I put more credence in the comments.  That's not the case for Eureka-Lux Nimble.  Only a few weeks out of the gate.

Carmine D.

Didn't take BEST BUY stores very long to add the Electrolux Nimble to its shelves.  In a different color than the Lowe's edition but same MSRP.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Brands/Electrolux-Vacuums/pcmcat186200050003.c?id=pcmcat186200050003

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Excuse for saying this, but: you have goofed - big time.

The model you linked to was for the Electrolux Versatility (EL8505), not the Nimble (EL8605).

The Verstility has 30-odd poor reviews.

The Nimble has 7 excellent reviews.

I wanted to  comment about the new Electrolux Nimble upright.  The vacuum cleaner does look very futuristic and modern, for a vacuum cleaner, with its flashy painted plastic and metal look.  There are some good features like a long cord and hose.  I liked that Electrolux put an aggressive brushroll on this machine.  The Nimble does a very good job of cleaning the carpet.

What I really want to  talk about is the main feature, its maneuverability.  To  refresh your memory,  I am not a "fan" of dyson vacuum cleaners.  They are just another vacuum brand, that would compete w/other brands.  That being said, I will move on.

iMacdaddy made the comment that "At first notice, this machine felt much more maneuverable than my old Dyson, and felt that it has a better turning radius as well."


CarmineD wrote:
I have  to disagree w/both these statements.  Dyson's "ball" uprights can maneuver/turn much better and easier than other swivel/twist uprights.  This can be checked out for yourself and you do not even need to turn the machine on.  The dyson can turn or maneuver just by leaning the handle to the left or right.  As this is done, the weight of the vacuum is repositioned  on the ball.  This, in turn, turns the cleaning nozzle head.  There is no heavy hand twisting required.  With the Nimble, it is another story.  The user must twist his/her hand in order to move the direction of the cleaning nozzle head.  It is not going to be easy, especially if you have any hand/wrist problems.  I want to also say that when you direct the Nimble to move to the left of right, it does not turn that well.  You should notice  that the head turns only slightly.

Take a dyson ball and Electrolux Nimble and check it out for yourself.  You should find that the turning radius of the dyson is much better and easier than the Nimble. 

I would have to say that if the Miele did not have the swivel wheels in front, Miele and Electrolux would have the same design.  The front wheels of the Miele make turning the upright much easier.  You have to wonder how well the DD Swivel would do, if it also redesigned their upright w/the swiveling upper body.

I do not care for swiveling uprights.  I have found that I can vacuum the same w/o the feature.  It requires very little effort to move a vacuum cleaner around furniture.  Vacuum cleaner manufacturers had the right idea when they started using them on rug/floor attachments of suction-only machines back in the day.  That feature was very useful.

Mike_W wrote:

Realizing that the uprights are used primarily on carpeting BUT I find the, as I said, that the dyson ball models are not as easy to use on barefloors and tiles as the swivel/twist of the ORECK, MIELE and NIMBLE.  As we see from dyson's evolution of the ball since the DC15, a change with the DC18, and then with the DC24/25 ball series.  Talk recently says another dyson ball is due out in short order.  And perhaps dyson will refine the ball mechanism further. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Id disagree here and the perfect example is the SEBO X4 against SEBO Felix. The Felix is much more controllable and faster at pick up. It is also much better than either full size Dyson Ball or the smaller one. Why? The Felix floor head gets under low furniture and whilst SEBO's X4 does too, the Felix has that swivel head which gets around corners which minimises having to turn a traditional upright around corners like the fixed wheels on the X4. The ball does not go under low furniture for the moment. Perhaps Dyson's new Ball upright in the future will be much smaller to get under low furniture - and I don't think taking out the long hose/come handle on the Dyson is particularly effective - or as fast.

CarmineD wrote:
What is so difficult about using a dyson on carpeting and floors?  Just tilt the handle to the left or right,while vacuuming, then the cleaning head turns.  The vacuum cleaner does the same thing on floor as the carpeting.  Actually, there would be less resistance on floors, when pushing/pulling,  compared to vacuuming thick carpeting.  The swivel/twist action is going to work on all surfaces.  How is changing the design going to make the dyson swivel/twist much better?

vacmanuk wrote:
We are talking about the swiveling/twisting action that these brands are focusing on.  The dyson has the greater swiveling action compared to other vacuum cleaners. Do the test yourself.  Turn the dyson to the right, as far as it goes, then do the same w/the SEBO Felix.  The dyson will have a wider degree turn than others. 

For those who want a visual, check out the link of the Felix video #2 of the Felix in action.

http://www.sebo.us/video_download.aspx?vdtitle=felix_sales.flv&vname=FELIX_Product_Demonstration#

Pay attention at 1:08 and especially around 4:25.  Watch how much she must swivel the handle in order to turn the cleaning head slightly.  Also, if you watch her vacuum under the bar stools, she swivels the handle, but then she must turn the vacuums direction by pushing the handle like "non-swiveling" vacuum cleaners.

It is fine to say the vacuum cleaner swivels, but what is important is what are the results of the cleaning head, from that swiveling.  It is easy to move the handle, watch the cleaning head move side to side and say "I am controlling the vacuum cleaner". What are the results from the swiveling/twisting?  iMacdaddy and Carmine felt that Nimble was better at swiveling than the dyson.  The dyson can turn at a wider degree.

As for SEBO getting under low furniture and dysons cannot, well, I have always believed that.  We are not talking about that.  We are talking swiveling/twisting features.  Can you twist the Felix and put it under the low furniture?  No you cannot.  The Felix must lay flat, just like the SEBO uprights(Xseries).

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

This is everywhere in retail these days. People who are alert, intelligent, walk purposefully rather than shuffle their feet, and are not plugged into a cell phone, or don't have their thumbs flying over a keyboard are ignored because the average clerk is intimidated by them. The clerk receives no training because instead of an asset, he.she is viewed as an expense.  As the number of retailers shrinks  their size increases and their concern for the customer decreases day by day.  I make an effort to see to it that management knows when an employee has done a good job in assisting me, even though it is their job far too many don't do it and receive no encouragement from management to excel.

Trebor

Mike_W wrote:

First, the original DC15 ball was too big bulky and $#%*bersome.  Two, the DC18 Slim was more manageable but still top heavy and prone to tip/fall over.  Three, the current DC24/25 series have rib spines on the outside surface of the ball.  These make the ball motion herky jerky over stiff surfaces like floors and tiles.  AND.. maybe the reason in part that the motor harness wiring fails under warranty on the DC25 [which uses a larger ball wheel].  Finally, the big disappointment to me and perhaps others like Vacmanuk is that the profile of the dyson ball models are high and awkward and fail to get under most of today's furniture.  Forcing conversion to tool use.  More time and effort by users.

Having said all the above, if you like them, fine go for it.  I don't like the ball wheels.  Never have.  I prefer the twist/swivel of the ORECK, MIELE and E-Lux Nimble.  And after Vacmanuk posted and reminded me the SEBO Felix, which has been marketed for years now and one of my favorite vacuums to recommend to persons with smaller homes/cleaning areas as a possible choice for them in the $500 range.

I suggest, since you ask, that dyson engineers redesign the current and past ball models/Slim into a revised ball version that combines the best features of both the DC18 and DC24/25 into one.  Lower profile for use under furniture with a better wheel mechanism for navigating hard surface floors.

Carmine D. 

Trebor wrote:

Hi Trebor:

Ironically, in the same visit, I met up with a Lowe's assistant who was wheel chair bound with mechanized propolsion.  He spoke to me FIRST as we crossed paths and we struck up a conversation on general issue matters, nothing retail oriented.  Tho I was in a hurry to get to my next destination, I paused and relaxed with him for a brief and enjoyble mutual conversation.  The next time I frequent this Lowe's store location, I plan to look for him.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
The Felix has been awarded a best buy from WHICH UK for carpet performance - DC33 did not rate in that respect. Now you can take all you want from that - and there would be many variables taken into account - but the Felix also scored higher on hard floor performance too. Taken on board what you say in the video regarding the SEBO shown. However Mike, when she goes between the bar stools, you don't have to do what she does - infact I'd have just swivelled the Felix between the legs and turned left or right. What she does is straighten up before she turns. You don't have to do that with the Felix - and yes - you control the movement from the handle - the design of the Felix with its swivel built into the floor head and other tools mimic the use of cylinder vacuums, likewise the components can be used on all of their models.

I've yet to go under low furniture with a cylinder vacuum's tube without going side ways or lowering it lower to the floor to get under low furniture. The exception to the rule is SEBO's deluxe 2 way suction floor head that has two large wheels at the back and no storage hook at the back - whereas Miele ones have the obligatory nib - and this is an optional floor head for the Felix. Only then can you go under low furniture in a straight line without having to go left or right in order for the floor head to make contact with the floor - but the plus is that you can go left or right with that type of floor head.

vacmanuk wrote:

Excellent SEBO video showing the benefits of the Felix.  Not just the vacuum demo,especially under and around furniture, but the commentary by the user.  Plus a really nice SEBO web page.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You have failed to disprove me.  Instead you mention other things about the dyson and its different models.  You talk about how the dyson cannot get under furniture.  All these things are not what I am talking about .  When it comes to twist/swivel features of some vacuum cleaners,  I have found dyson to be the best at this feature.  This brand has a wider degree turn than others. You have not disproved it.  You have not even tried the Nimble yet.  You later say that you like the Nimble, because it does better on floors than carpeting.  It is an upright!  You have not tested the Nimble on carpeting, because Lowe's does not have test rugs for demos.

vacmanuk wrote:
I am going to tell you the same thing I told Carmine.  You have failed to disprove me.  Instead you talk about an award for the Felix  You even bring in how the DC33 did not even "rate in that respect".  The DC33 does not even have a swivel/twisting feature.  I could care less if the dyson goes under furniture or has a long hose, etc, because it has nothing to do w/what should be debated.   All you are doing is defending one of your favorite brands

What I have done is prove my point that dyson ball uprights' twisting/swiveling feature is better than others, especially the Electrolux Nimble.  You brought up the SEBO and came to its defense.  I again proved my point w/ SEBO's OWN VIDEO demo, PRODUCED BY SEBO.

What I was able to do was take a brand, one that is not my FAVORITE, and admit it has A FEATURE that excels over others.  I have in no way said dyson is the best vacuum cleaner.  Also, I have in no way said the SEBO is a bad vacuum cleaner. 

Mike_W wrote:

Let me take another tact.  First, my intent is not to disprove you.  Like and buy whatever you want.  Second, I DON"T LIKE THE BALL WHEEL.  Period, end of story.  Never have and never will.  I prefer the twist/swivel features of uprights, especially the ones I mentioned: ORECK, MIELE, NIMBLE and Felix.  NOT BALL WHEELS.  Finally, you're fixated on the ball under the vacuum and are forgetting everything else that uprights have to do beside manuever.  Like perform.  I'm judging the entire product with and around the ball not just the ball.  If you want to be fixated on the ball and turning radius, fine go for it.  But if the darn thing won't clean, then it don't mean a thing. 

Carmine D.

PS: if I recall correctly, YOU said you don't even have to turn the dyson ball on to see its maneuverabilty.  Just use it w/o power on.  So I don't get your point that the NIMBLE has to powered on to be able to prefer it to a dyson ball wheel.  Not really.  All I have to do is look at the huge ball wheel, laugh out loud, and say not in my lifetime will I buy and use it.  All the rest is filler.

When dyson luanched its DC15 ball in April 2005 to much fanfare, it had an MSRP of $599.  I laughed and said no way.  Even said it would come down in price after it didn't sell and predicted at least $50 less.  Dyson dropped the MSRP by $100 by June 2005.  And it still didn't sell well.  The DC18 a modified ball model sold better at $469. 

Mike_W wrote:
I hazard a bet that there's no upright Dyson that can go under low furniture. Not much versatility for upright owners then..

As for the swivelling action you seem to think that because the Dyson has a wider track when swivelling, that is better than the Nimble. For a start we don't have the Nimble in the UK so I can't possibly comment. We do however have the Hoover Slalom which strangely the Nimble reminds me of in a big way. In both cases, a swivelling upright vacuum will work IF THE TOP HALF is light. If the top half like the Miele S7 is heavier than the floor head, no matter how much of an angle it swivels or twists, it must be a heck of a weight that the owner has to control. It was one of the less redeeming features I disliked about the Miele S7. Reiterates the old thought that uprights are heavier than cylinders in that respect - not exactly moving anything on. The trouble with Dyson's ball is that whilst it looks novel and whilst I'd agree that it feels easier to swivel to a wider angle, the ball gets in the way. Dyson needs to make the ball smaller and more agile regardless of whether the swivel/twist action is wider.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have made my point about twisting/swiveling uprights and do not need to continue.  Now, about the Nimble.

The Nimble is very hard to twist, because it is so heavy, plus the way it is designed.  Twisting/swiveling uprights are not designed for persons with hand/wrist problems.  I can speak from firsthand experience, because someone ran into my car; resulting in a wrist problem.  Moving the Electrolux Nimble hurts my wrist. It requires alot of strength to twist the handle, which does not move the cleaning head that much.  It is better to just move the handle side to side, to move the cleaning head.   I have always recommended a loop-handled upright and one that does not require alot of hand gripping, when someone has wrist/hand problems.

Mike_W wrote:

With a weak and injured wrist, any full size upright save the ORECK PILOT/SEBO FELIX, will give you problems using.  You're not the best user to opine on full size vacuums with swivel and twist features.  Quite the contary.  That would be the point to correctly and accurately make.  Anything else is opinion.  Not fact.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Oh Carmine,  I am one of the best users to talk about it.  It is quite simple actually.  Remember, I said wrist and not wrists.  God blessed me w/two arms and hands.  I can use the machine as persons with/without hand/wrist problems.

Keep trying Carmine.

Mike_W wrote:

You're ambidextrous too! 

The swivelling and twisting epsecially for a full size upright would strain your weakest body part wther it be hand wrist and/or arm.  In your case the wrist.  If your wrist is weak or injured on your preferred hand, even more so.  If not, and the other wrist, if you use for vacuuming, you haven't developed the skill and aptitude to use it as well as your preferred hand/wrist.  It's simple.  Even you can figure it out. 

Carmine D.

Yes, Carmine

Even if I was not, in this case, you are wrong.  Remember, a few of you have said it is so easy to twist and swivel.

Mike_W wrote:

No, quite the contrary:  You're wrong.  I SAID I PREFER THE SWIVEL AND TWIST OVER THE ANCIENT DYSON BALL.  Now, seems I recall when dyson launced its ball model in 2005 YOU SAID it was styled after the old fashioned metal uprights of years ago.  Am I right?   Who wants an old fashioned looking vacuum that sits on a ball and costs $500-$600.  Except perhaps you.  Tho, from what you have said here you really don't.  Just arguing that the ball has a smaller radius to turn and easier for persons with bad wrists to use.  Now, those are both excellent reasons to buy a full sized upright rather than a lightweight. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Interesting point - the Hoover Slalom also suffers from the same problem plus the fact that its so poorly made, it doesn't always lock up when you put the handle upwards and store away - or use the hose.

My mother is a professional pianist and has been a pianist for most of her life, aside from playing the church organ which she now feels is better suited for her. Why? She broke her hand in three places, had to give up playing piano when she was 45. She's now in her late 70's. She loves the Miele stick vac because it is so lightweight but it hurts her wrist when she turns it - another design where the motor is located at the top but yet is bottom heavy because of the design. She couldn't stand the Slalom and it also hurt her wrist. She liked the Sebo X1 because it adjusted automatically to the floor but it would take her ages to slowly do carpets compared to me whizzing around with the Felix. She likes the Felix a lot - finds it pain free when moving, even using the traditional handle. The Felix is also "top heavy" but the electronics support the need to induce a little self-mechanised movement - evident from the difference where you switch off the floor head and find that it just doesn't move as easily.

The best vacuum she "ever had" was the Oreck XL but the noise killed her senses - and I've often wondered if SEBO would engineer a similar handle - it certainly does ease wrist pain. Another model she loved was the Electrolux Ergorapido/Pronto because it was lightweight, had a swivel built in, yet the rubberised gripped handle was good enough for her to ease her pain. I'm considering buying the improved one - knowingly from our previous model - it would help her out as well (even though it does a minimal job) as me doing secondary cleaning up after her.

My mother however doesn't like cylinders bar the SEBO k3 with the similar Felix floor head - not for the fact that you have to pull the machine after you - but for the fact that despite lightweight tubing, turning a tube side to side is painful with a suction only floor head added or a heavier air driven turbo brush - unless it has a "proper" handle that doesn't either feel too blocky or forces you to lay your hand out - a problem that the standard "bent" handle of the Miele cylinders induces, alleviated somewhat better by the Deluxe ones fitted to higher end S5 models. Again with the SEBO power head fitted, there is less stress to her hands when its forever powering the need to push a lot in front of her.

Therefore, my question is - does the Nimble have an inducing self-mechanism of moving forward by its own - or not?

vacmanuk wrote:
I am not quite sure what you are asking, but the machine is not self propelled. The Nimble is heavy, but there is slight forward movement w/the help of the longer, aggressive brushroll bristles and human assist.  What I call the "handle-weight" is heavy and I believe this would be hard for a much older person to use, IMHO.  Even w/a nicely designed looped handle, the Nimble would be hard to use.  The user must turn the upper portion of the upright, using your wrist, to turn the cleaning head slightly.  It is much harder than SEBO.

I have always said that looped handle uprights are better to use.  I even said, eventhough I do not ORECK uprights are the best, David Oreck got it right w/the handle.  I find you do not have to grip the handle in order to push it forward.  With looped handles, very little gripping is involved.  I have tested this out with many a upright.  Having a handle, which must be gripped is more work.  I could take a Panasonic/Kenmore upright, with looped handle and pull back the machine just using my thumb and pointing finger.  Better looped handles are ones where the handle is bent enough, so that the palm can be used on the forward motion(like ORECK).  This requires little movement.  The only drawback is if there is arthritis in that area.

I do not know if I answered your question or not.

CarmineD wrote:
When it comes to the "twisting/swiveling" feature of a vacuum cleaner and this is usually how a vacuum is sold or promoted as, then yes, dyson wins.  As for what it looks like, well, that is not what I am talking about.  I am not talking about the price.

While I am not sure if I said what you think, but I would not put it passed me to say it looks like vacuum which utilize "bell shaped" cleaning heads.  There is something I remember saying to T.G., Venson, etc. It does not matter how old a vacuums design is, as long as the vacuum  cleaner works.  I think one comment T.G. used was that the Sanitaire uprights were "old fashioned".  That may be true, but it is great at carpet cleaning, low maintenance, and now, better filtration.  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I thought Royal "all metal" uprights cleaned very well and were old fashioned.  I even have the 4000.  It does have some cons, but what do I always say? "There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner".

I do not get the whole "full sized upright rather than a lightweight" statement.  Not everyone should be using a lightweight vacuum cleaner.  I cannot see everyone using a  HOOVER  Air in a large home, unless it is for quick pick-up.  There are going to be complaints. They are going to complain about having to empty the container constantly.   A Riccar Supralite is great, but maybe someone wants the features of a full sized upright.

Mike_W wrote:

Try reading Vacmanuk's post about his Mother's broken hand and her experiences with vacuums.  [You brought up your wrist problem.]  She likes the ORECK and SEBO [save the ORECK sound and I understand the latest models sold by SEARS may even address the noise problem].  That's the point.  Vacmanuk got it, so did his Mom.  Simple to read and comprehend.  

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Thank you for answering the question.

None of SEBO's uprights are self propelled either - they don't involve a mechanism which is geared or mechanised to offer that faciity - yet they surge ahead and feel lighter to the user. Re-thinking the swivel on the Nimble - it looks very much like that of the Miele S7 swivel - i.e.e larger pivotal mechanism joined between bottom of the vacuum where the pre-motor filter would be located and the top of the hood of the upright. SEBO's Felix has a small pivotal neck and thus doesn't require that much turning - compared to Miele & Nimble seen by the photos.

Not all looped handles are the same though - the Oreck impels owners to hold the handle almost dead upright as if they are holding a joy stick when the Oreck upright vac is in use. More modern uprights with a looped handle employ the hand to push down at a flatter angle, also similar to that of the Hoover Freemotion cylinder which lacks a loop but is orthopaedically more comfortable:





Hoover however made the mistake of making the handle flatter despite being more comfortable by "looks," and then adding a heavy clip on tool directly underneath. In practice, it endangers pressure on the side of the hand, thus employing a clenched pose rather than using all bones within the hand equally and putting too much weight on one side of the hand - which is clearly demonstrated in the above photo.

Mike_W wrote:

There may not be the BEST or Perfect vacuum for all BUT surely vacuum makers who make their products better for all persons to use are attempting to defy that statement, which frankly is antiquated and disengenuous.  This AMAZON video is for the HOOVER lightweight bagged upright and dual compact canister.  Consumer Reports has rated this duo as its top rated pick on several occasions and within its top 10 picks on all occasions where it/they are rated and reviewed ALONG with full size uprights.  CR never adds the qualifier that it is a lightweight and only should be considered for quick pick ups and/or in conjunction with a full sized cleaner for home cleaning.  That thinking is stuck in the very old vacuum past.  The vacuum world has changed.  I've chosen the HOOVER vacuum team becuase you and others here have mentioned it in the past favorably.  

ORECK is THE VACUUM maker that has been the leader in the dual vacuums' marketing strategy.  Dave Oreck contradicted this wrong lightweight vacuum thinking when he introed his lightweight upright almost 50 years ago.  Vacuum makers from RICCAR, HOOVER, ELECTROLUX, KENMORE, SEBO, dyson and others followed ORECK's lead.  There is no difference between a full size canister with a power head nozzle and a direct suction lightweight upright [like the ORECK/HOOVER] for cleaning parity on rugs and floors.   

Carmine D.

 

CarmineD wrote:
There is a difference in Oreck and other brands.  The other brands actually remove imbeded dirt.

CarmineD wrote: You see, you are agreeing w/me and then contradicting yourself again.  It is not "antiquated and disengenuous" if it is true.  Manufacturers continue to try improving their product(s).  While they may add an improvement, something else may lack.  I will continue to use that phrase, because it is true.

You are not understanding my statement.  I said-
Mike_W wrote:
This was in response to your "smart" statement, which I could not understand.  I took liberty and responded w/a logical statement.  As anyone can see, I gave a full explanation.  I used the HOOVER Air as one example, as well as the Riccar Supralite.  You chose to pull every lightweight vacuum together and say I have said the same thing about everyone of them.  The Riccar would be fine for a very large home,  but someone will complain that they do not want to run and get a suction-only vacuum, for other vacuuming chores.  What does ORECK do, he puts out the Edge w/an onboard hose.  The only problem is, hose use is only good for small work ilke dust on a baseboard.  The Edge is not perfect or the Best.  Do you understand now? I even stayed in the lightweight category. Again!

Mike_W wrote:

Hopefully you understand now.  If not ask, I'll be happy to assist you just as I do your buddy here HS.

Carmine D.

 "There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner".

 I will continue to use that phrase, because it is true.  

     Source:  Our illustrious Moderator here on this site Mike W.

Is this your original thought/idea or are you quoting someone else who you did not give credit to here?

Carmine D.

Carmine;

I know that you are still viewing, so sign in and read your email.

Mike W.
Moderator

Typically AEG is taking on the Nimble in the UK. Seems that the higher end/more modern rivals are being used by Electrolux's other brand to "reinstate German engineering". Arrives in the UK by May 2011.

It seems to me that a crucial point of this debate has not yet been fully articulated. No one vacuum cleaner CAN do it all, nor could it ever be so engineered until A) BOTH batteries and cords are eliminated and the vacuum operates from a Tesla generator that draws electricity from the aether and B) the dirt is either teleported to a disposal site, or dismantled at the atomic level to provide it's own power. Those two points solve the weight/power issue with respect to the size of the motor and the size of the dirt container, leaving ample room for a full set of on board tools. Back to our current understanding of reality.

The present understanding of the laws of physics compels a recognition of two distinct types of above the floor cleaning 1) on the fly as in the stray piece of popcorn behind a chair, a cobweb, or crumbs on a chair/sofa and 2) thorough cleaning of all surfaces that are not carpeting or area rugs.  The on board hose of an upright lends itself to the first type and not to the second because a) it does not roll like a canister with a tug of the hose (the new Miele S7 is a PARTIAL exception to this caveat because its hose locks down, keeping the pull exerted  at a low center of gravity) b) the hose of necessity is of the stretch variety which collapses when suction is applied with an upholstery or crevice tool. The hose must be managed with BOTH hands so the hose can be used to make even strokes on upholstery or along the edge of a floor. Longer stretch hoses don't really help, just have more length to collapse. Longer regular hoses mean more hose to store on board,more weight, more to undo when needed, taking more time to replace on the cleaner when finished with the task. The new Miele canister stretch extension hose is brilliant, but has the limitation (for the moment, at least) of not being usable with an electric hose/nozzle assembly, but the discussion is still about uprights. Full size attachment kits offer more convenience in the attachment mode but require the conversion, which users complain about bitterly, especially with regard to the Kirby, the most complete and thorough conversion of all, taking in to account reach, number of tasks, and true portability. The separate portable canister offers lighter weight for both machines, since the canister does not need to clean carpets, and does not need wheels, but again, consumers complain about having to go get the second cleaner. The original Bissell LIft Off was a good idea, but it was bulky do to the fact that the bag compartment had to be large enough to accommodate a full size upright's carpet cleaning capability.  Taking all of this in to account leads us to Oreck's development of the Edge. They have distilled the on board tools concept down to what people really use it for: quick grabs of stray debris the upright cannot reach. A longer hose and more tools would defeat the purpose. Oreck's research (remember some Oreck stores did repairs on all makes and models) revealed that even with owning an upright with on board tools, a great many consumers still use a separate canister for their above the floor cleaning. Those who do not tend do much less thorough above the floor cleaning. Many, many uprights come in for repair missing their tools, but people still like them for their ability to grab stray debris on the fly. That is the one strength of an on board, instant on hose with an attached wand, that and nothing else. When I tried the Edge, it gripped the carpet better than any other Oreck, ever, on all carpet types. It maneuvered well, and the instant on board hose with attached flex crevice tool did well for what it was intended. I predict Hoover will imitate Oreck's advance as soon as the patent expires, or they can find a way around it. The Sharp bagless upright was brilliant in that the hose/floor suction was diverted back and forth with a foot pedal. One could actually operate the cleaner with the upright's handle in one hand and the wand in the other and simply flip back and forth from floor to hose, hose to floor  without even raising the handle to the full upright position, but no additional hose could be easily attached/removed. Most of the Panasonic, Riccar, Simplicity, etc uprights with on board tools are equipped with a port for a hose to accommodate a full set of tools. Not a bad compromise at all, easily designed, and it limits the trips to retrieve the hose and tools to those times when they are really needed. I think combining this approach with the Sharp diverter valve would be brilliant. Mention must be made of the Hoover concept with the on-board hand vac, nice try, but no wand to reach with, and not enough power for deep cleaning.

What about canisters? Well, the quick release wand from a power nozzle still leaves a metal wand to lift, and a metal edge to ding and scratch walls if one is not careful. The new Panasonic power head with built in bare floor brush looks brilliant, but the jury is still out on its durability. Some have complained it is difficult to re-insert the brush onto the nozzle base. Separate plastic wands are a good idea, but they don't ride along with the rest of the tools. Telescopic aluminum electric wands offer the best compromise so far, points to MIele, but still not as light as plastic wands.

The debate revolves around a few key points, which is why there is no one best vacuum for everyone. Six people faced with the same cleaning challenges might very well make six completely different choices of cleaning equipment.

1) How many different kinds of cleaning do you have to accomplish?
2) How do you prefer to do them (or not)?
3) What is most convenient for you?
4) Convenience, Power, Price: pick two and compromise on the third

I have not used it, or read reviews but the videos of Beam's new central vac hose look intriguing. It expands from 13ft to double it's length.

vacmanuk wrote:
Electrolux is the premium brand in the U.S., while Eureka is the not so premium brand for them. 

The Nimble is now available in many retail locations, so people should not have a problem looking at them up close and personal.

Trebor wrote:
Good to hear from another perspective, however it's more of the "new fangled" swivel that's got everyone talking on an upright vacuum, namely the Nimble.

The Miele hose extender/flexhose is a good idea IN THEORY although it has metal coils which can be bent out of shape compared to the standard Miele hose which has none - I know - I have it - the extender hose also  snaps back too easily unless you are cleaning with the wand upwards thus allowing it to drop down and when fully stretched, cuts suction power unless the Miele used has the full maximum suction dialled in. You still get reduced suction though when the flexhose/extender hose is stretched out.

I think there is a perfect vacuum cleaner - it's just that everyone is in a democracy to choose their own and decide from then what's perfect for them.

As for canisters. Never mind bruising the home with metal wands - its the hoses - long hoses that wriggle and bang off painted walls that causes the most damage, a fact that some brands are now taking on board by making the hoses shorter and the tubes long - Bosch for example do this whilst SEBO's electric wand is lighter than Miele's tubing either with the electric wire attached or not.

In terms of different choices of cleaning equipment, the debate has already been discussed on another forum I'm a member of - it doesn't involve vacuum cleaners but general day to day aspects. One of the aspects about "modern life," a lot of UK people have noticed is the increase of pollution and dirt in the home compared to the 1970's. Sand and dust seem to be the major concerns, one of the very reasons to why many households nowadays have two vacuums - a cylinder for "cleaning out the car or above the floor line," and a heavy upright if living with loads of carpeting. It may not be in the same in the U.S given the high cost of vacuums generally, but there's very little difference between owning a canister and an upright when you own a dust buster and another vacuum cleaner you consider to be the main machine that collects lifestyle dust. You still have more than one vacuum in the home.

It is also the case in the UK that many households still prefer a seperate washing machine and a seperate dryer. Washer/dryer combination machines suffer from elements that burn out too early on, loading problems - particularly from big weight loads the machine can take but has to have clothing taken out for a smaller amount of load possible. Washer/dryers are good for limited space but most people still prefer having the separate units - which makes a lot more sense if you have the space available as well as being less cost in the long term.

If Dyson is to release an upgraded ‘ball’ model in the near future, chances are it’ll look similar to a flurry of patents made public this week. This shows a design with the air ducting now running through the centre of the ‘ball’. Presumably, each half of the ‘ball’ can turn independently. It’s possible this design would be Dyson’s first to use their Digital Motor; with the ducting they’d really be cramming a lot of components inside that sphere. The patents also mention a revised handle design, with the aim of improving steering.

 

By the looks of it, the new Dyson Ball will use a slightly enlarged version of the motorhead used on the DC35 stick vac with a smaller motor, and thinner brushroll compared to that of the current DC25.....although these could be patent drawings for the successor of the DC24, not DC25.

iMacDaddy wrote:
As with the DC24 / DC25, the cleaner head is fully removable by the user and hence a range of market variants *could* be produced, if required, regardless of what is shown in these drawings.

It is a question, if it would be available in small and large models, like with the DC24 / DC25. If it’s using a conventional motor, this would be challenging for a smaller model. But if using the Dyson Digital Motor v2, as used in the Digital Slim, more feasible. Although one further point – these drawings show a post motor filter cover and hence suggest a conventional brushed motor, for a full-sized cleaner model at the very least.

Be interesting to see if the Dyson Digital Motor (V2) will appear in the New Ball and if a large and small versions will be produced like the DC24 and DC25. Looking at the drawings (does the patent show any more drawings!?) will be new type of ball design be a flexible as previous models? I'm liking the new design looks like there may be a new kind of Cyclone bin and pre motor filter looking a the air duct!? DC18

M00seUK wrote:

I should note that the DC22 canister had a removable, washable HEPA filter, and it too had the Dyson Digital Motor.

iMacDaddy wrote:
I don't know that model, that well - was a post motor and a pre-motor filter?

M00seUK wrote:

It had a HEPA exhaust filter, in addition to a pre-filter housed inside the left wheel.

This message was modified Apr 29, 2011 by iMacDaddy

Test results from Which 2011:

"...The Nimble A8602AZ is the first upright vacuum cleaner from AEG. It's bagless, designed to be easy to manoeuvre and carry, and it has a swivel head and an LED headlight to help navigation. We wanted to see whether this nimble vac could tackle heavyweight dirt when we got it to the lab for testing. Read on to find out how it fared in our tests.

The Nimble performed brilliantly on laminate and carpeted floors and is a worthy Best Buy. Crevices did prove to be a problem, though, so it's not a great choice if you've got wooden floorboards at home.

This vac's long telescopic hose has two positions to let you get underneath furniture and clean stairs. AEG also supplies both a furniture brush and a three-in-one 'Versatool', which bends to clean corners or can be flattened out to clean surfaces and upholstery.

Electro brushroll
Aided by a motor-powered brushroll, which can be switched off for hard floors, the A8602AZ is effective at beating and sucking dust out of carpets, so overall pick-up is impressive. Suction starts high and doesn't drop as the 2.1 litre-capacity dust container fills, but it can't be reduced for cleaning more delicate fabrics or rugs.

Unfortunately overall dust pick-up from hard floors is poor. While laminate floors are given a thorough clean, the Nimble isn't able to suck much dust at all out of cracks and crevices in wooden floorboards.

Excellent dust retention
Fortunately the dust that is collected is all effectively kept inside this vacuum cleaner. The A8602AZ scores five stars for dust and allergen retention, meaning it doesn't spit dust particles back out into the room as you clean.

The Nimble fails to live up to its name when skirting round the edges of the floor. It can't get close to walls and corners as the brushroll doesn't extend to the edge of the floorhead. A gap along the front and left hand side may mean you need to revisit some spots with smaller accessories.

Great for pet-owners
When it comes to pet hair, the Nimble gets top marks. It speedily sucks hairs out of the carpet and the brushroll doesn't take long to clean afterwards.

The Nimble isn't difficult to use or maintain and is very energy efficient, but cleaning the electro brush on the floorhead is a laborious process and the handle can't be adjusted to your height. The swivel neck and long flex are bonuses but there are more manoeuvrable vacs available that are easier to use on stairs.

Pros: Excellent for carpets, laminate floors and pet hair, energy efficient, long hose and flex

Cons: Disappointing on floorboards, electro brush takes time to clean

this is the coolest one ever seen. so gonna get one.

vacmanuk wrote:

Is the wand fitting still the same as before? If so, Electrolux makes a bare floor tool that could be ordered on the side for better results on hard floors I'd imagine.

Venson