Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
|
"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
![]()
|
 |
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #64 Apr 11, 2011 12:13 pm |
|
Mark, I figured all this out, more or less from our message exchanges. The problem is not the vacuum but the Envirocare bags. These are made to fit your Kenmore cann and are less expensive than the Ultracare brand bags, which are the original Kenmore brand bags for your vacuum and more expensive. I have my own thoughts and feelings about replacement bags made to fit brands and models which I have expressed here on many occasions. There are a number of reasons this bag is not working: The cardboard collar caves with use and as the bag fills with dirt. Probaly not strong enough. The cloth/paper bags should have a plastic collar which will not degrade with usage BUT these plastic collars are best served when they lock into the bag holder channel. Can't with yours. So, its a catch 22 with your vacuum if you continue to use the bags. Hopefully, you can get most of the dirt that by-passed the bag and pre-motor filter out of the motor compartment. This shopuld give you another 2-3 years usage from this Kenmore cann. Especially, if you don't use it that much and share the duties with your other vacuums. Carmine D.
|
"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #65 Apr 11, 2011 12:42 pm |
|
Carmine
The cardboard collar that is PART of the bag itself did NOT come off the bag. That's not defective at all. When changing the bag in the Kenmore can you slip the bag collar over the piece that accepts the bag. There is no "locking" but it feels like it's on there really good. When I opened the canister to change the bag, it was as if someone had just taken the vacuum bag and just placed it in the bag compartment WITHOUT even putting it on the canisters bag slider thingy or whatever its called. But I'm the only one that uses this vacuum and am very careful (especially since this has happened in the past) to put it on very securely. Though when sliding the bag onto the unit there really is NO locking that I can see, it just slides into place. It's very strange and I can't figure out how this has happened to me...........This last time I actually put mailing tape on the red thing that accepts the collar and the cardboard collar hoping that will keep it from sliding off. I even tugged the bag pretty hard and it's on there really good. So if it comes off this time, I give up. Now I'm paranoid every time I use it
The vacuum cleaner bags, for the Kenmore/Panasonic vacuum cleaners will lock into place. There is a raised plastic ring on the underside of the bag holder. When you slide the bag collar on the holder, slide it all the way down until you feel a little "click", you know the bag is in place. When you try to pull the bag out, it should not come out. You have to make sure the cardboard collar is not bent in any way. If the collar opening does not "lock" w/the bag holder, the the bag collar opening is not wide enough. When you want to change the bag, all you have to do push down on the collar slightly and slide the bag out. Or, push the bag collar down and the collar will pop out of the collar. Of course, the bag cannot be used again, because the collar will be bent. Only do this if you are not going to reinstall the bag. You should not be repeatedly putting on and removing the bag anyway. If you install the bag, leave it on until you change the bag. By any chance are you removing the bag,in order to check how much dirt is in the bag? I have recommended generic bags in the past. Bag technology has greatly improved since the advent of generic bags. The only vacuum cleaner I have suggested using genuine with, was Filter Queen. The generic package contain(s) filter paper and were usually cut slightly smaller. What has happened to you, does not happen all the time. Occasionally, it will happen, but it is not just w/generic bags. It usually happpens w/ improperly installed bags.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #66 Apr 11, 2011 2:26 pm |
|
The vacuum cleaner bags, for the Kenmore/Panasonic vacuum cleaners will lock into place. There is a raised plastic ring on the underside of the bag holder. When you slide the bag collar on the holder, slide it all the way down until you feel a little "click", you know the bag is in place. When you try to pull the bag out, it should not come out. You have to make sure the cardboard collar is not bent in any way. If the collar opening does not "lock" w/the bag holder, the the bag collar opening is not wide enough.
When you want to change the bag, all you have to do push down on the collar slightly and slide the bag out. Or, push the bag collar down and the collar will pop out of the collar. Of course, the bag cannot be used again, because the collar will be bent. Only do this if you are not going to reinstall the bag. You should not be repeatedly putting on and removing the bag anyway. If you install the bag, leave it on until you change the bag. By any chance are you removing the bag,in order to check how much dirt is in the bag?
I have recommended generic bags in the past. Bag technology has greatly improved since the advent of generic bags. The only vacuum cleaner I have suggested using genuine with, was Filter Queen. The generic package contain(s) filter paper and were usually cut slightly smaller.
What has happened to you, does not happen all the time. Occasionally, it will happen, but it is not just w/generic bags. It usually happpens w/ improperly installed bags.
What hasn't changed with generic bags, despite their advancements is this: The maker of the particular brand will provide the best parts for its makes and models and has a vested interest to do so. A bag/part supplier does not. Replacement bags and parts are sold not for their quality but their price differential with original made for bags and parts. That's a fact. When in doubt use the original made for and not made to fit replacements.
Carmine D.
|
"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #67 Apr 11, 2011 3:10 pm |
|
What hasn't changed with generic bags, despite their advancements is this: The maker of the particular brand will provide the best parts for its makes and models and has a vested interest to do so. A bag/part supplier does not. Replacement bags and parts are sold not for their quality but their price differential with original made for bags and parts. That's a fact. When in doubt use the original made for and not made to fit replacements. Carmine D. Not quite true. Generic bags have changed, for the better. They provide much better filtration than years ago. Sometimes the generic bags are not cheap. You made reference to the bags, filters, etc. at Walmart being expensive. Before you talk about generic bags, understand them. BTW, why not stop signing out and waiting for me to write something. It does not matter if I catch you now or later.
This message was modified Apr 11, 2011 by Mike_W
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #68 Apr 11, 2011 3:19 pm |
|
Not quite true. Generic bags have changed, for the better. They provide much better filtration than years ago. Sometimes the generic bags are not cheap. You made reference to the bags, filters, etc. at Walmart being expensive. Before you talk about generic bags, understand them.
BTW, why not stop signing out and waiting for me to write something. It does not matter if I catch you now or later.
I have said here many times bags have improved over the years and is an argument I use against bagless vacuums. BUT, originals are for the most part more expensive and better than replacements BECAUSE makers have a vested interest in providing the best for their products. Suppliers don't. In the case involved the Envirocare bags are MUCH CHEAPER than the Ultracare brand.
Same back at you. Carmine D.
|
"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #69 Apr 11, 2011 3:24 pm |
|
I have said here many times bags have improved over the years and is an argument I use against bagless vacuums. BUT, originals are for the most part more expensive and better than replacements BECAUSE makers have a vested interest in providing the best for their products. Suppliers don't. In the case involved the Envirocare bags are MUCH CHEAPER than the Ultracare brand. Same back at you. Carmine D. Vacuum suppliers, as well as other businesses, have a vested interest. If their bags do not work, vac shops will not sell them if there is not competition. Electrolux and HOOVER have a vested interest in their own vacuum models, as well as other brands. They make are are in competition to be main competitor in stores like Target. Target is no longer selling Electrolux supplies, but has started selling TTI Floorcare.
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #70 Apr 11, 2011 4:07 pm |
|
Vacuum suppliers, as well as other businesses, have a vested interest. If their bags do not work, vac shops will not sell them if there is not competition. Electrolux and HOOVER have a vested interest in their own vacuum models, as well as other brands. They make are are in competition to be main competitor in stores like Target. Target is no longer selling Electrolux supplies, but has started selling TTI Floorcare.
I disagree. Retailers provide cheaper replacements as an accomodation to customers. Most carry the originals too, at the higher prices, giving buyers a choice: Original for more or made to fit for less.
If vacuum indies/retailers sell bad parts, customers have recourse directly with the indies/stores. Nothing lost. The indy/retailer suffer. If customers have problems with the original parts, the name brand and maker suffers. Reputation is at stake. Not just profit. Name is more important than profit. Makers don't want to take that risk with their parts and jeopardize their reputation for a little more profit by providing poor quality parts. So, they offer the best they can regardless of whether they are very profitable or not. Parts suppliers don't take any degree of risk to their name. Indies and retailers do. Not the same from my point of view. Makers' name is always utmost importance before profit involved. Carmine D.
|
vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #71 Apr 11, 2011 8:58 pm |
|
I disagree. Retailers provide cheaper replacements as an accomodation to customers. Most carry the originals too, at the higher prices, giving buyers a choice: Original for more or made to fit for less. If vacuum indies/retailers sell bad parts, customers have recourse directly with the indies/stores. Nothing lost. The indy/retailer suffer. If customers have problems with the original parts, the name brand and maker suffers. Reputation is at stake. Not just profit. Name is more important than profit. Makers don't want to take that risk with their parts and jeopardize their reputation for a little more profit by providing poor quality parts. So, they offer the best they can regardless of whether they are very profitable or not. Parts suppliers don't take any degree of risk to their name. Indies and retailers do. Not the same from my point of view. Makers' name is always utmost importance before profit involved. Carmine D. In the UK all high street/franchise retailers always sell genuine bags & consumables plus a strange line of universal dust bags and filters that seem to just sit on the shelves forever = but the marked up cost in some cases highlights the cheaper need to use EBAY. I was totally shocked last night when it took forever to find bags for my Bosch Professional. Should have known that bags for this model would never be as popular or known as Miele! Eventually considering UK franchises against EBAY, I plucked for a seller from EBAY who were substantially cheaper. Cheap copy consumables only seem to exist in private hardware shops and most customers either love or loathe them. The problem with the UK is that we have so many European brands who have come and gone, that for the most part, despite brands like Moulinex and Philips disappearing, the copy bags/filters available are for Hoover, Electrolux, Morphy Richards - all established names in the 1970's to the 1990's but nowadays bagged vacuums/filter consumables are less likely to be bought by customers when the more modern vacuums either have washable filters, reusable "twice time" dust bags, or carry a washable shake out SMS dust bag.
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Who makes Kenmore canisters now?
Reply #72 Apr 11, 2011 10:09 pm |
|
I disagree. Retailers provide cheaper replacements as an accomodation to customers. Most carry the originals too, at the higher prices, giving buyers a choice: Original for more or made to fit for less. If vacuum indies/retailers sell bad parts, customers have recourse directly with the indies/stores. Nothing lost. The indy/retailer suffer. If customers have problems with the original parts, the name brand and maker suffers. Reputation is at stake. Not just profit. Name is more important than profit. Makers don't want to take that risk with their parts and jeopardize their reputation for a little more profit by providing poor quality parts. So, they offer the best they can regardless of whether they are very profitable or not. Parts suppliers don't take any degree of risk to their name. Indies and retailers do. Not the same from my point of view. Makers' name is always utmost importance before profit involved. Carmine D. That is BS and you know it. No way is an Oreck product worth it's price. No R&D, no performance and certainly no expensive parts. Wait. They spend millions putting the name out to all. I prefer performance to a name.
|
|
|
