Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Is it TTI or still Panasonic?

Haven't been here in awhile Hertz so I thought I post this to refresh your memory.  I like to bring closure to confusion whether mine or others.

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:

Hertz wrote:

My memory is usually pretty good.  How about yours?

Wait, so you just took the time out to reply with that but not answer my question? That's funny; A bit sad, though. THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE NOW CARMINE! Phew, that was a close one! It's not that big of a deal though; I evidently was the one at fault; I just hope you didn't have such an emotional hissy fit as you seem to have had over it, haha. Nicely done though man, haha. I could care less about it, and you should too. Care to ACTUALLY answer my question? Don't waste your time again.

Hertz wrote:

It's one thing to put up with nonsense in word.  Quite another to put up with nonsense in person.  Americans had the good sense to separate from the likes of you and your nonsense [King of England] and today is the 234th birthday of that momentous day.  HAPPY 4th of July.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You're being a hypocrite in the purest of sense. You're also wasting our worlds resources by utilizing electricity to post all this nonsense. Happy 4th to you too PAL Realizing Carmine is stuck on this ridiculous *nonsense*, I'm still curious as to who makes Kenmore canisters now?

CarmineD wrote:

You're being a hypocrite in the purest of sense. You're also wasting our worlds resources by utilizing electricity to post all this nonsense. Happy 4th to you too PAL Realizing Carmine is stuck on this ridiculous *nonsense*, I'm still curious as to who makes Kenmore canisters now?

Hertz wrote:

When you grow up, you will learn that there are two things you should most assuredly do when you are wrong and everyone knows you are.  First, admit you are wrong.  Second, say you are sorry if you're wrong if you accused someone else wrongly of being wrong.  Of course, now you are wrong 3 times here.  Once, for being wrong in the first place.  Twice, for failing to admit you were wrong and apologizing to me for it.  Finally, three times for being wrong twice and insulting me in the process [as well as all here] and actually expecting me to answer your question.  In the USA we have a game called baseball.  For a batter, it's 3 strikes and you're out.  You've had your 3.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

My response the first saying "I was obviously the one at fault" is being realizing I was wrong and admitting. Drop this stupid vandetta and learn to move on. I admitted I made a Boo-Boo! By the way, you insulted me first, and with that in mind you're being a hypocrite yet again! W/e though, I'm done man. Have a happy 4th! P.S - I hate baseball.

CarmineD wrote:

My response the first saying "I was obviously the one at fault" is being realizing I was wrong and admitting it. I admitted I made a mistake; so you should now drop this ridiculous "vandetta." - by your own logic if anybodies. By the way, you insulted me first, and with that in mind you're being a hypocrite yet again! W/e though, I'm done man. Have a happy 4th! P.S - I hate baseball.

My guess would be LG.  However, Sears has no reason to limit itself to only one supplier.  Presumably they decide what they want to offer and then put out a request for bids to build it.  At one time (way back), they even offered the Kenmore Professional uprights made by Sebo- although Panasonic seemed to make most of their machines way back.  They used Bissell for a light weight machine.  

Severus wrote:

Would you consider Kenmore canisters to be a "decent" machine longevity and cleaning wise? They're def. built with poor quality construction in some areas, but are the motors better-than-average, for example? I don't have ANY interest in owning one, as I have my Miele's and hopefully soon an Aerus Lux Diplomat off of craigslist, but hell, just out of kicks I'm curious what the quality of these (Kenmore) machines are if I ever need to recommend a machine to a friend that's in a certain price range, for example. Thanks for your post by the way, Severus. Appreciated.

Hertz wrote:

Yes, but you trivialized your mistake to avoid giving an apology and impugning my reasons for drawing the mistake to your attention.  This is an indication that you have not grown up yet.  The only vendetta, if you want to call it that, is between you and your parents and/or the adults who raised you.  Though the blame I suspect may reside more with you than them.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Yes, but you trivialized your mistake to avoid giving an apology and impugning my reasons for drawing the mistake to your attention.  This is an indication that you have not grown up yet.  The only vendetta, if you want to call it that, is between you and your parents and/or the adults who raised you.  Though the blame I suspect may reside more with you than them.

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:

You admit you're wrong but won't apologize to me.  I will apologize for you to your parents/guardians who raised you for your inability to say you're sorry when you are wrong.  I'm sure, they in good parental/guardian conscience, formed your upbringing in a way that taught you right from wrong.  In other words, they raised you the right way.  They would hope and expect you to apologize when you are wrong because that's how they raised you.  Sadly, in my case, for whatever reason only known to you, despite giving you numerous opportunities and several times to do so, you haven't apologized to me for wrongly accusing me of having a bad memory when in fact you do.  Instead, you've gotten obtuse.  I am sorry for you and your parents/guardians.  You wronged them by forgetting what they taught you. 

I suspect had I accused you wrongly of what you accused me, you would be stunningly irate.  You don't know and like the game of basebase.  Perhaps you recall, despite your faulty memory, the golden rule: "Do unto others, as you would want them to do unto you."  I'm sure your parents/guardians taught you this lesson.  Somewhere along the way to your growing up, you forget it.  Bad memory?  Or something worse?  

Actually this is very similar to your question here:  Who makes Kenmore canns now?  Who made you and what happened to you?  Only you know the answer.  I pity you.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Look kid, I don't know who you are, but you really need to stop talking about things you have *NO* idea about. You bringing up something that was old news, mocking me a while back (maybe I misinterpreted you?) and now you acting like a creepy psychotic being is kind of annoying. I pity YOU dude, it's like you have *NOTHING* better to do. Seriously my friends will most likely just look at this and laugh at how misplaced you are. You're biased against truth, you're being hypocritical, and you're emotionally misplaced in which you're pitiful in how you think you're doing a great lesson here. Keep wasting your time buddy, this is getting better and better.

Better yet, just stop wasting your time. I already apologized, yet you fail to see that, and that's your problem.

Hertz wrote:

I'm sorry.  I must have missed it.  If you did apologize to me, I accept. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Good then. I do appreciate you coming to terms with this situation and realizing your mistake, and again, like I did before, I do apologize for having wrongly accused you, but now that you've realized your error as well, and apologize for that, then well: It's all good man. haha, now, care to answer my question or do you not even actually know? If not, does anybody know?! More specifically, who makes the Kenmore Intuitiob? They still all look like Panasonics, but is it possible TTI can still make them LOOK very similar to the older Panasonic-made ones and have that be "legal", and/or is it Kenmore can just hand out the plans to whoever company and have them build them still looking identical to each other? Just curious.

Hertz wrote:

If I recall correctly SEVERUS answered your original question as posted on this thread.  I agree with SEVERUS. 

This is a new and differnt question than before: "More specifically, who makes the Kenmore Intuitiob? " The answer SEVERUS provided applies here too.  The Kenmore Intuition probably is sourced by another maker other than LG.

"is it possible TTI can still make them LOOK very similar to the older Panasonic-made ones and have that be "legal", and/or is it Kenmore can just hand out the plans to whoever company and have them build them still looking identical to each other? Just curious."

IMO, yes, TTI can copy design/style and keep it legal if it does not infringe on patented designs/features still under exclusive rights use by the maker/patent holder.  Additionally the patent holder/company can/may contractually agree to share the exclusive rights for compensation with SEARS/Kenmore in a legally binding agreement which spells out the terms of agreement.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Right, I thought you might have been with-holding even more knowledge than what Severus said. Either way, I'm still curious for a definite answer. I might call Sears soon, haha.

Hertz wrote:

Might be better going in person and talking with a SEARS person, especially if you can gain a business relationship/friendship with him/her.  Oft times, the SEARS people are ill-informed and just don't know or have wrong information.  Worth corroborating what you are told for confirmation.

If you look at two successful sourced vacuums in recent years in the USA, you'll see EUREKA-ELECTROLUX was oner maker and TTI another.  Wal*Mart contracted with EUREKA-ELECTROLUX to produce, under the GE brand, a line of bagged/bagless uprights and canns.  Very popular sellers from 2000 up to recently.  In 2004 Wal*Mart contracted with HOOVER which sourced to TTI the Fusion and Fusion Plus, bagless uprights for $90-$130.  The contract ran 2 years.  Also very popular sellers.  I recall several, who no longer post here, threatening dyson would sue HOOVER over the shroud/see-thru bin as well as other features Fusion features supposedly copied from dyson.  HOOVER laughed it off and W*M all the way to the bank.  This was before TTI acquired HOOVER from Whirpool in 2007.

Carmine D.

Talking of Kenmore, does anyone have pictures or used the Sebo Kenmore that Sebo used to build? I believe it was an X1 but Ive never seen been able to find it.

Hertz;

LG barely has a foot in the door w/Kenmore vacuum cleaners.  Panasonic makes a majority of the Kenmore vacuum cleaner line.  There are two other makers for the Kenmore line. 

vacmanuk wrote:
I remember when these came out.  They looked nicer, IMHO, than the SEBO's, because of their color.  They were close to royal blue w/some gray trim.  There were two models.  They were alot different than other Kenmores Sears was offerning at the time.  I have to say that the demise of these Kenmores was that they cost alot more than other Kenmore uprights.

Mike_W wrote:

The legal binding agreement [aka contract] can state that any/all parties to the agreement can not disclose any of the details, including who is the maker, else be subject to a breach of the contract.  The contract can also specify a period of time after the contract is entered into by the parties when it is legally permissable to disclose details.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
What in the world does your comment, to me, have to do w/ my comment to Hertz?  We are not talking about "legal binding agreement".  "Who makes Kenmore vacuum cleaners?"  You did not answer, but instead directed Hertz to Severus.  I answered Hertz. 

Mike_W wrote:
Thanks for your update.  I was hoping you would have the answer. 

Mike_W wrote:

If a vendor, like Pano, is in negotiations to source vacuums with more than one buyer at a time/time period, it will not want the details of any agreements made public for fear of limiting/adversely affecting the vendor's business terms. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
Same broken record Carmine.

Mike_W wrote:

Let me try another tact.  A mouse can learn to roar like a lion but its still a mouse.  Sears Kenmore Intuition sells for $459 on sale but even with the name, and the source, is not worth the price IMHO.  No offense, I know you like pano's.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Thanks for that info, Mike. I'd love to see one.

did Aerus make the mini PowerMate?

hooverman wrote:

This means reaching back to the late 1950s but per my recall, Kenmore/Whirlpool was at the front lines with the electric power nozzle for rugs and, much later down the line, with the electrically powered small nozzle device for upholstery and stairs.  The company formerly known as Electrolux -- not Aerus -- followed suit on both devices. I can't pinpoint dates but I do know that it was not an option with the Electrolux or 1205 or most of the all metal Electroluxes.  I'm pretty sure Procare must know.

I feel Kenmore helped to give the market little jump starts now and then with new ideas as later on many other makers in one way or another emulated some of its features.

Venson

In answer to the question as to whetther Aerus (formerly Electrolux )made the Powermate Jr or not. The answer is no. They made their own.  Kenmore has always come out 6 months to a year after Electrolux  with a power nozzle and powermate jr. Kenmore's powermate came out with the toothed belt in 1960 and the Electrolux was ready in 1959 on the AF.  When we came out with the Sidekick we had it adaptable to  Kenmore, Eureka and Hoover.

Procare

procare wrote:

Hi Procare et al:

The Lux power nozzle was revolutionary for the vacuum industry.  Up until then the only revolving brush available for tanks and canns was the Preco Power Brush which was air driven.  Tho Preco did use a toothed belt, to its credit, it was no match for Lux's power nozzle, the best in the industry at the time.

Carmine D.

Rainbow also had the sidekick 1 looking mini nozzle,the housings looked the same but it did not use the geared belt,so it did not work as good as the lux version,the kenmore minis were pretty much useless also.

Procare do you remember the d2 convertors so the electric hose could be used, to run the sidekick?

The adapter with the switch on it.

Thanks

MOLE

procare wrote:

Hi procare,

What I'd like to pinpoint is the time that Kenmore came out with its first power nozzles.  The initial PN was a cast aluminum, 10 or 11-inch wide deal with two wheels at its rear and a standard flat belt.  Whirlpool (Kenmore's source), Interstate Compact and a few other brands shared this style for a time.  Kenmore (90 series model)  eventually went for a fancier, sleeker looking L-shaped version.

Best,

Venson

Mike_W wrote:

Hello Mike W.:

Since you are in the know, and a fan of panasonic, and we have established above and elsewhere that panasonic [Japan] has made vacuums for Sears since 1990, and in early 2008 Sears also sourced to TTI-HOOVER-DD in China to make vacuums, what will pano and SEARS do now with the earthquake and tsunami in Japan and the nuclear disaster that followed.

Carmine D.

PS:  I knew ..."the pano made in China Quest" would set you off, but I needed a way to get your attention.  Surprised it took you so long. 

CarmineD wrote:
My "vac phone" to Sears or Panasonic has not rung.  I tend to not post if I do not know, 

"Panasonic [Japan]" does not make vacuums for Sears.  Panasonic Home Appliances of North America and Panasonic Home Appliances de Mexico does, however.  Moreso  Mexico.  We  do not get Sears vacuum cleaners from Japan.  There is one vacuum cleaner that is made in China.  Panasonic is global.  They have suppliers in different countries. 

Sure, Carmine.  You got my attention.  Yeah, right!  Sure! Anything you say, Carmine!   There are some other threads also, where you got my attention.  You are too good!

Mike_W wrote:

You must be talking about the 'former" Whirlpool plants in Kentucky and Mexico that made panos for SEARS?  Is that right?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
No Carmine, I am talking about the former Whirlpool plant in KY and the Panasonic plant in Mexico. 

What are  you getting at?  You know I know all about Whirlpool history of vacuum cleaners.  The last time I posted was in reply to Venson, on this forum.  Remember?  He asked about some history.  I am sure there are some others who remember.

Mike_W wrote:

I'll take your word for it Mike, since you are the expert in Whirlpool history of vacuums.  Thank you.

Carmine D. 

Mike_W wrote:

Hello Mike W.:

How about vacuum parts and supplies for panos/SEARS?  Any made in Japan?

As of yesterday, almost ALL Japanese auto production and the large majority of auto parts and suppliers have closed down [no date for restarting].  We have already seen and heard that Ford Motor in Detroit is telling its customers that they can't order tuxedo black finish vehicles due to the earthquake/tsunami.  And to make matters worse the International Monetary Fund said Japan was at the brink of a financial tsunami due to its enormous debt BEFORE the latest tragic and sad events. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Why not do a search and find out.  Know where their facilities are located. Panasonic was spared more than some other companies.  You would then find out which Pana factories were damaged, where and what they produced.  You check out Business Week, WSJ, etc. more than me, as I have pointed out before.  Some of that stuff you are writing has been on the nightly news since the disaster. 

Actually, before you brought this thread up yesterday, last time I posted was before the disaster in Japan.  And it was not about the disaster or parts.  So, what is it you are having a problem with?

Mike_W wrote:

So, who's not answering questions now Mike W.?

Unlike me who is not in the know, you're the expert Mike W. as you like to say and tell us here.  Always anxious to get your lucid perspective on these matters that you have expertise in and on. 

Don't assume BTW, that I haven't done my homework and researched already.  As I said, don't jump to conclusions that are flat out wrong as you are prone to do. 

BTW, you may want to check those phones to SEARS and Panasonic and make sure they are working.   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, as you and others can read, on this thread,  I made comments like

Mike_W wrote:
I also said, "I tend to not post if I do not know". 

You see, I am not going to fill up space just talking  assumptions.  I did not come back to this thread to talk about the earthquake.  You are the one who got me to talk about this subject of Panasonic/Kenmore/earthquake. Now think about when I make comments to you.  You have already made comments w/o my help.  Maybe you should not say anything and see what happens.  Try it. 

What you should have done was come back to this thread and told me I was wrong about the comments I made a while back.  "No Mike, LG TTI, and the others do not make vacuum cleaners for Sears." But I would have to be wrong about it.   I do believe someone even made a positive remark to my chiming in.

As for the "expert" thing, well you told me and many others, on the previous forum, to this one, and I think ivacuumcleaners.com also that I was an expert and that I was quite knowledgeable. 

Mike_W wrote:

While you are waiting for your telephones to ring, Deutsche Bank cut its estimate of toyota's profit in the fiscal year beginning April 1 by 84 percent.  It also cut its forecast for Honda's fiscal 2012 profit by 50 %, and Nissan's by 79 %.  I think it has something to do with the March 11 shock waves that the earthquake caused in the global supply chain. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

Don't believe everything you read .  You have since proved me wrong.  I'll admit it.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hello Mike W.:

How about vacuum parts and supplies for panos/SEARS?  Any made in Japan?

As of yesterday, almost ALL Japanese auto production and the large majority of auto parts and suppliers have closed down [no date for restarting].  We have already seen and heard that Ford Motor in Detroit is telling its customers that they can't order tuxedo black finish vehicles due to the earthquake/tsunami.  And to make matters worse the International Monetary Fund said Japan was at the brink of a financial tsunami due to its enormous debt BEFORE the latest tragic and sad events. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

While you are waiting for your telephones to ring, Deutsche Bank cut its estimate of toyota's profit in the fiscal year beginning April 1 by 84 percent.  It also cut its forecast for Honda's fiscal 2012 profit by 50 %, and Nissan's by 79 %.  I think it has something to do with the March 11 shock waves that the earthquake caused in the global supply chain. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

Mike_W wrote:

Mike_W wrote:

No Mike, I figured [wrongly] that you would find out the truth yourself sooner or later about the SEARS Premalite, I didn't have to call you out on it here publicly.  Sadly I was wrong.  The experience did not humble you.  Instead just the opposite.  Righteously you pound your chest here justified with your badge and censor keys.  So, you have to learn a life lesson the hard way.  And... I'm the one to do it.

BTW, do you care to share with us what you know now about the SEARS Premalite now and what happened to that $400 plus China made and SEARS sold upright?

Carmine D.

PS:  "....for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled,
and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

CarmineD wrote:

You really are something Carmine.  To this day, I stand behind the Premalite as a good bagless upright.  The features of the machine I stand behind.  There is no filter, in the bin, to clean out.  I did not care for the price.  I cannot help if someone else does not like something I praise.  I thought I said something similar a day or two ago. What did you say about it, from the beginning? Shall I go back and check?   Even as I originally wrote, the price was going down.  Which did you like Carmine, the Premalite or the dyson line?  When you used the Premalite,  was the "handle-weight" heavy? 

To help you out,  I even liked the bagless, multicyclonic, LG-made Kenmore canister.  It was good competition for dyson.  But alas, it is hidden and still expensive.  It  did not sell well.  Not everything is going to make it.  What was that HOOVER "folding upright" called, that you would not let go of?  The HOOVER  Z? 

I really do not get it Carmine.  You are upset about how I feel about Chinese-made vacuum cleaners, but you praise the$300.00  Electrolux Nimble?  What gives?

CarmineD wrote:

Now, as Moderator-

Does this underlined sentence have anything to do w/the actions of the moderator or the workings of this site?  Just give me a "Yes" or "No".  That is all I want.

You have been here long enough to know how things work.  You have been given  much freedom.  I could have easily "censored" the things you have posted, as you would think I do, but have not.  I have even left things you wrote about me.  Its all still there.  Not the mean monster as you want to believe.

Mike W,
Moderator

Mike_W wrote:

Completely False statements Mike.  Your money, your opinion, buy and like what you want.  

I haven't used the Electrolux Nimble yet, but I tried.  I saw it and turned on.  I posted here several weeks weeks ago about it.  Not sure what you read and inferred.  When I was at Lowe's on other business, I stopped by the vacuum aisle to scope out the Nimble.  It was new and on display but w/o the dirt bin cover.  Couldn't use it, no suction.  Can't praise it yet.  Have to wait and see.

BTW, I bought 2 new HOOVER Z's.  Still in use.  One in a commercial setting.  It is their go to vacuum.  Never bought a SEARS LG Permalite.  Even when it was discountinued and selling for $69 new.  HARDSELL put it correctly here.  He said and I quote:  It is a POS.  If I'm not mistaken I even agreed with him here.  Every now and then even he gets it right.  When he does, I tell him so.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I can't recall acomment on the LG.  I would likely remember if you said I was correct.  However, I may have made that comment about the "Z".

HARDSELL wrote:

It's on this site about the Permalite.  Same place as Mike's comments. You said that the Permalite is a POS.  POS is your phrase and word which you use here often.  Not just for the Z, tho I must admit you never it [HOOVER Z] that.  Read my other post here to you and you'll understand what I said about you. And like I said, I think I even responded back to you in agreement on the Permalite.  I would remember because I don't say that I agree with you very often.  AND I have your words here to me that I NEVER forget anything [especially when it is about vacuums].  You're right there too.

Carmine D.

OMG!!!!

I didn't want to start a new thread so I just kept this one going since it's pertaining to the Kenmore Can.......Mine is about 3 and a half years old..........I buy those envirocare synthetic cloth bags........

Yesterday I went to change the bag, opened the bin and the bag had COMPLETELY slipped off the collar............It was a mess..........This has happened to me three or four times in the past and I have been SOOO careful when putting them on....... I had to get the Rainbow out to clean the inside of the Kenmore..........

After cleaning, I changed all three filters. Hepa, Chamber, and Bag.........I can't for the life of me figure out how these bags continue to slip off........I thought the first couple of times it was my fault because I didn't have them very secure or something, but this last time I was so careful in that it was on properly..........I'm the only one that uses this machine and it hasn't been turned over or anything to cause the bag to slip off......

You should have SEEN the inside of the bin.

Is there anything I can use to keep this from happening? I put some packaging tape on it in such a way that I think it will stay, but I don't know if anyone has a better method.

mark40511 wrote:

More like "Houston, we have a problem."  I highlighted parts of your message that are significant for diganosis and response.

Your last question first:  Stop using the Envirocare bags.  Convert to Ultracare bags.

Question 1:  Is this condition limited to this one package or have you had several packages of these same Envirocare bags do the same thing: slip off the bag holder?

Question 2:  Is the bag collar plastic or cardboard?

Question 3:  Have you gotten all/most of the dirt that bypassed the bag and pre-motor filter out of the motor compartment?

Carmine D.

Here are the bags I use, and if they don't slip of the collar, they are FABULOUS.....No loss of suction as the bag fills, and no trace of dirt/dust in the bin

The collar is cardboard, but the odd thing is that it's a really SNUG fit

This is not limited to this package. This has happened with other packages in the past as well. I think it's happened to me like three times

The motor safety chamber filter HOPEFULLY protected the motor since that was obviously the ONLY thing keeping the dirt from getting sucked right into the motor. The motor still sounds fine.


To be honest, I can't remember but I think this has also happened with the DVC microlined paper bags one time on me as well.....I could be wrong on that. I have used those in the past as well.

As it is now, when I put the new envirocare bag on, I taped it and then tried to slip it off the collar and it won't come off unless I take the tape off or pull really hard, so hopefully that will help........


http://www.totalvac.com/A137.html

Question 3:  Have you gotten all/most of the dirt that bypassed the bag and pre-motor filter out of the motor compartment?


Forgot to answer this

I don't know HOW I would get any dirt that bypassed the chamber filter since I don't know how to take a vacuum apart.

mark40511 wrote:

Short of taking apart and cleaning, I suggest:  With a new bag installed, pre-motor filter in place, remove the post motor, or exhaust filter.  With vacuum running, stop the suction opening by cupping your hand over it.  Remove your hand and continue repeating the hand blocking procedure.  Note if and how much dirt is coming out of the exhaust opening of the vacuum.  If dirt is doing so, continue running, using your hand to block the suction opening and unblock the opening until all/most of the dirt emitted from the exhaust subsides. 

Carmine D. 

Of course it goes without saying that the above procedure for clearing the motor compartment dirt is done outdoors. 

WRT terminology, the bag collar is the cardboard/plastic part of the bag that slips on and locks into the vacuum's bag holder.  If the collar is coming off [the bag not the bag holder] then the the problem is a defective bag.  Usually the glue holding the collar on the bag is stale, insuffient, and won't hold.  If the bag collar is slipping off/out of the bag holder, as is your case, the bag is not made securely enough to be used in your vacuum, without modification.  Hence, I recommend using the Ultracare brand of bags in your case.  But it's up to you.

Carmine D.

Carmine

The cardboard collar that is PART of the bag itself did NOT come off the bag. That's not defective at all. When changing the bag in the Kenmore can you slip the bag collar over the piece that accepts the bag. There is no "locking" but it feels like it's on there really good. When I opened the canister to change the bag, it was as if someone had just taken the vacuum bag and just placed it in the bag compartment WITHOUT even putting it on the canisters bag slider thingy or whatever its called. But I'm the only one that uses this vacuum and am very careful (especially since this has happened in the past) to put it on very securely. Though when sliding the bag onto the unit there really is NO locking that I can see, it just slides into place. It's very strange and I can't figure out how this has happened to me...........This last time I actually put mailing tape on the red thing that accepts the collar and the cardboard collar hoping that will keep it from sliding off. I even tugged the bag pretty hard and it's on there really good. So if it comes off this time, I give up. Now I'm paranoid every time I use it

This is a BLUE Kenmore from like three years ago. It's still a Panasonic.

mark40511 wrote: mark40511 wrote:

Mark, I figured all this out, more or less from our message exchanges.  The problem is not the vacuum but the Envirocare bags.  These are made to fit your Kenmore cann and are less expensive than the Ultracare brand bags, which are the original Kenmore brand bags for your vacuum and more expensive.  I have my own thoughts and feelings about replacement bags made to fit brands and models which I have expressed here on many occasions. 

There are a number of reasons this bag is not working:  The cardboard collar caves with use and as the bag fills with dirt.  Probaly not strong enough.  The cloth/paper bags should have a plastic collar which will not degrade with usage BUT these plastic collars are best served when they lock into the bag holder channel.  Can't with yours.  So, its a catch 22 with your vacuum if you continue to use the bags. 

Hopefully, you can get most of the dirt that by-passed the bag and pre-motor filter out of the motor compartment.  This shopuld give you another 2-3 years usage from this Kenmore cann.  Especially, if you don't use it that much and share the duties with your other vacuums. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

mark40511 wrote:
The vacuum cleaner bags, for the Kenmore/Panasonic vacuum cleaners will lock into place.  There is a raised plastic ring on the underside of the bag holder.  When you slide the bag collar on the holder, slide it all the way down until you feel a little "click", you know the bag is in place.  When you try to pull the bag out, it should not come out.  You have to make sure the cardboard collar is not bent in any way.  If the collar opening does not "lock" w/the bag holder, the the bag collar opening is not wide enough.

When you want to change the bag, all you have to do push down on the collar slightly and slide the bag out.  Or, push the bag collar down and the collar will pop out of the collar.  Of course, the bag cannot be used again, because the collar will be bent.  Only do this if you are not going to reinstall the bag.  You should not be repeatedly putting on and removing the bag anyway.  If you install the bag, leave it on until you change the bag. By any chance are you removing the bag,in order to check how much dirt is in the bag?

I have recommended generic bags in the past.  Bag technology has greatly improved since the advent of generic bags.  The only vacuum cleaner I have suggested using genuine with, was Filter Queen.  The generic package contain(s) filter paper and were usually cut slightly smaller.

What has happened to you, does not happen all the time.  Occasionally, it will happen, but it is not just w/generic bags.  It usually happpens w/ improperly installed bags.

Mike_W wrote:

What hasn't changed with generic bags, despite their advancements is this:  The maker of the particular brand will provide the best parts for its makes and models and has a vested interest to do so.  A bag/part supplier does not.  Replacement bags and parts are sold not for their quality but their price differential with original made for bags and parts.  That's a fact.  When in doubt use the original made for and not made to fit replacements.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Not quite true.  Generic bags have changed, for the better.  They provide much better filtration than years ago.  Sometimes the generic bags are not cheap.  You made reference to the bags, filters, etc. at Walmart being expensive.  Before you talk about generic bags, understand them.

BTW, why not stop signing out and waiting for me to write something. It does not matter if I catch you now or later.

Mike_W wrote:

I have said here many times bags have improved over the years and is an argument I use against bagless vacuums.  BUT, originals are for the most part more expensive and better than replacements BECAUSE makers have a vested interest in providing the best for their products.  Suppliers don't.  In the case involved the Envirocare bags are MUCH CHEAPER than the Ultracare brand. 

Same back at you. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Vacuum suppliers, as well as other businesses, have a vested interest.  If their bags do not work, vac shops will not sell them if there is not competition.  Electrolux and HOOVER have a vested interest in their own vacuum models, as well as other brands.  They make are are in competition to be main competitor in stores like Target.  Target is no longer selling Electrolux supplies, but has started selling TTI Floorcare.

Mike_W wrote:

I disagree.  Retailers provide cheaper replacements as an accomodation to customers.  Most carry the originals too, at the higher prices, giving buyers a choice: Original for more or made to fit for less. 

If vacuum indies/retailers sell bad parts, customers have recourse directly with the indies/stores.  Nothing lost.  The indy/retailer suffer.  If customers have problems with the original parts, the name brand and maker suffers.  Reputation is at stake.  Not just profit.  Name is more important than profit.  Makers don't want to take that risk with their parts and jeopardize their reputation for a little more profit by providing poor quality parts.  So, they offer the best they can regardless of whether they are very profitable or not.  Parts suppliers don't take any degree of risk to their name.  Indies and retailers do.  Not the same from my point of view.  Makers' name is always utmost importance before profit involved.   

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
In the UK all high street/franchise retailers always sell genuine bags & consumables plus a strange line of universal dust bags and filters that seem to just sit on the shelves forever = but the marked up cost in some cases highlights the cheaper need to use EBAY. I was totally shocked last night when it took forever to find bags for my Bosch Professional. Should have known that bags for this model would never be as popular or known as Miele! Eventually considering UK franchises against EBAY, I plucked for a seller from EBAY who were substantially cheaper.

Cheap copy consumables only seem to exist in private hardware shops and most customers either love or loathe them. The problem with the UK is that we have so many European brands who have come and gone, that for the most part, despite brands like Moulinex and Philips disappearing, the copy bags/filters available are for Hoover, Electrolux, Morphy Richards - all established names in the 1970's to the 1990's but nowadays bagged vacuums/filter consumables are less likely to be bought by customers when the more modern vacuums either have washable filters, reusable "twice time" dust bags, or carry a washable shake out SMS dust bag.

CarmineD wrote:
That is BS and you know it.  No way is an Oreck product worth it's price.  No R&D, no performance and certainly no expensive parts.  Wait.  They spend millions putting the name out to all.  I prefer performance to a name. 

HARDSELL wrote:

Then don't keep trying them over and over again and keep returning.  Lets' see my last count you have had 4.  2 direct order, one from the ORECK Clean Home Center and one from Target.  SEARS is selling them now too.  You can add another ORECK to your collection. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO WRITE OFF OPINION AS FACT.  Is it any wonder that you have no credibility?

vacmanuk wrote:
What you are talking about is what I have discussed before.  If there is a vacuum cleaner, which has not been around a long time, ceases to exist, then it will be hard to find bags for it.  It is not worth a company to make the bags, if there are not enough users to purchase them.  If they are still made, then the price will be very high.    The Halo has not been around for a long time, so I would doubt there would be a generic bag.  What might change is the fact that ORECK took the vacuum over.  The same bag is also used in the Edge. If these do not last, a bag supplier will not make the expense to market them.  There will not be enough cleaners out in the market.

Look at the Electrolux Trivac.  It was not a popular stick vac.  The bags can still be found, but they are very expensive.  On the other side of stick vacs, take a look at HOOVER and its stickvacs.   They were around for a long time, so these bags could be found for years under generic brands.

I think something I saw w/the UK is that you had alot of the "chinese-made" vacuum cleaners before us.  What I also noticed also was that alot of the different brands used one size bag.

In the US, generic bags are popular.  Even the vacuum cleaner manufacturers have gotten aggressive w/marketing their bags for other brands.  HOOVER was one of the first to market bags for non HOOVER machines.  There bags filtered very well.  They were very good quality.  They were not bags like Dust-O bags, or the like.  Now, they have become so aggressive that they are taking over the "big box" retail stores w/their own brand.  This is also pushing out the name brand vac bags.  Electrolux put their bags, w/the Filtrete name, in some stores like Best Buy and Target.and in Walmart under the name Arm & Hammer.  Like I mentioned earlier and/or in another thread, TTI Floorcare(HOOVER), is taking over Target and Electrolux's Filtrete brand is leaving.  I have to say though, these bags are fantastic quality.  The generic bags are nothing like what was available in the 70's and earlier.  I believe you may remember Carmine commenting on the good quality of Arm & Hammer bags.
 
I wanted to add a comment, but it may not apply to what you said.  It may be to something Carmine said, then I will put it there later.  Some people believe that if the purchase Eureka, it has to be Eureka bags.   If it is HOOVER, it must be HOOVER  bags.  And so on and so on.  They see the instruction manual and read something like "Must use GENUINE Eureka bags.  No other brand will give  you years of performance.  They get scared, so that is all they buy.  It is not true today.  What do you do when Electrolux Home care also sells the Filtrete brand bags?  The generic bags will say something to the fact that "there bags will perform as well as or better than the genuine.

Mike_W wrote:

Makers say is that they won't warranty if the user doesn't stick with genuine bags and parts.  Maybe the parts maker selling the replacement bags will instead?  When in doubt, use the originals especially during the warranty period.  The case with the Envirocare bags and the Kenmore cann is the exact reason for this. 

Carmine D,

HARDSELL wrote:

Not quite.  It's a another attempt to keep up with the changed responses to me that you forget you posted over time.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:
This is my comment on the "who makes Kenmore" thread.  Notice below it you made reference to the Premalite thread.  Ol Dizzy Carmine.

HARDSELL wrote:

Yes, HS I posted your comments here when you asked to me on this thread.  But sadly you forgot and subsequently asked me several more times.  I feel for you.  It is hard to keep up when discussions are on several threads about the same the matters.  Of course of import is that you and agreed about the LG Premalite while your buddy thought it was one of the best new vacuums to be offered by SEARS.  Sadly it wasn't. And soon faded away despite all the attempts to keep it on life support. 

Carmine D.

PS: Now his comments about the LG Premalite are on still another thread.  Hard to keep track of all these pervasive comments on the same subject in so many different places.  I have no problem.  Happy to assist you into the right place and direction.  Feel feel to ask.

CarmineD wrote:
Caught in you web again.  More of your mumbling lip service with no validity.

HARDSELL wrote:

Understand HS, it's hard to keep up with me.  Not to worry.  Go slow and ask questions.  Happy to help you along with your old posts and statements any time. 

Carmine D.