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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #34 Apr 5, 2011 4:44 pm |
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I wanted to comment about the new Electrolux Nimble upright. The vacuum cleaner does look very futuristic and modern, for a vacuum cleaner, with its flashy painted plastic and metal look. There are some good features like a long cord and hose. I liked that Electrolux put an aggressive brushroll on this machine. The Nimble does a very good job of cleaning the carpet.
What I really want to talk about is the main feature, its maneuverability. To refresh your memory, I am not a "fan" of dyson vacuum cleaners. They are just another vacuum brand, that would compete w/other brands. That being said, I will move on.
iMacdaddy made the comment that "At first notice, this machine felt much more maneuverable than my old Dyson, and felt that it has a better turning radius as well."
I have to disagree w/both these statements. Dyson's "ball" uprights can maneuver/turn much better and easier than other swivel/twist uprights. This can be checked out for yourself and you do not even need to turn the machine on. The dyson can turn or maneuver just by leaning the handle to the left or right. As this is done, the weight of the vacuum is repositioned on the ball. This, in turn, turns the cleaning nozzle head. There is no heavy hand twisting required. With the Nimble, it is another story. The user must twist his/her hand in order to move the direction of the cleaning nozzle head. It is not going to be easy, especially if you have any hand/wrist problems. I want to also say that when you direct the Nimble to move to the left of right, it does not turn that well. You should notice that the head turns only slightly.
Take a dyson ball and Electrolux Nimble and check it out for yourself. You should find that the turning radius of the dyson is much better and easier than the Nimble.
I would have to say that if the Miele did not have the swivel wheels in front, Miele and Electrolux would have the same design. The front wheels of the Miele make turning the upright much easier. You have to wonder how well the DD Swivel would do, if it also redesigned their upright w/the swiveling upper body.
I do not care for swiveling uprights. I have found that I can vacuum the same w/o the feature. It requires very little effort to move a vacuum cleaner around furniture. Vacuum cleaner manufacturers had the right idea when they started using them on rug/floor attachments of suction-only machines back in the day. That feature was very useful.
Realizing that the uprights are used primarily on carpeting BUT I find the, as I said, that the dyson ball models are not as easy to use on barefloors and tiles as the swivel/twist of the ORECK, MIELE and NIMBLE. As we see from dyson's evolution of the ball since the DC15, a change with the DC18, and then with the DC24/25 ball series. Talk recently says another dyson ball is due out in short order. And perhaps dyson will refine the ball mechanism further.
Carmine D.
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #35 Apr 5, 2011 8:39 pm |
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I wanted to comment about the new Electrolux Nimble upright. The vacuum cleaner does look very futuristic and modern, for a vacuum cleaner, with its flashy painted plastic and metal look. There are some good features like a long cord and hose. I liked that Electrolux put an aggressive brushroll on this machine. The Nimble does a very good job of cleaning the carpet.
...I have to disagree w/both these statements. Dyson's "ball" uprights can maneuver/turn much better and easier than other swivel/twist uprights. This can be checked out for yourself and you do not even need to turn the machine on. The dyson can turn or maneuver just by leaning the handle to the left or right. As this is done, the weight of the vacuum is repositioned on the ball. This, in turn, turns the cleaning nozzle head. There is no heavy hand twisting required. With the Nimble, it is another story. The user must twist his/her hand in order to move the direction of the cleaning nozzle head. It is not going to be easy, especially if you have any hand/wrist problems. I want to also say that when you direct the Nimble to move to the left of right, it does not turn that well. You should notice that the head turns only slightly.
Take a dyson ball and Electrolux Nimble and check it out for yourself. You should find that the turning radius of the dyson is much better and easier than the Nimble.
I would have to say that if the Miele did not have the swivel wheels in front, Miele and Electrolux would have the same design. The front wheels of the Miele make turning the upright much easier. You have to wonder how well the DD Swivel would do, if it also redesigned their upright w/the swiveling upper body.
I do not care for swiveling uprights. I have found that I can vacuum the same w/o the feature. It requires very little effort to move a vacuum cleaner around furniture. Vacuum cleaner manufacturers had the right idea when they started using them on rug/floor attachments of suction-only machines back in the day. That feature was very useful. Id disagree here and the perfect example is the SEBO X4 against SEBO Felix. The Felix is much more controllable and faster at pick up. It is also much better than either full size Dyson Ball or the smaller one. Why? The Felix floor head gets under low furniture and whilst SEBO's X4 does too, the Felix has that swivel head which gets around corners which minimises having to turn a traditional upright around corners like the fixed wheels on the X4. The ball does not go under low furniture for the moment. Perhaps Dyson's new Ball upright in the future will be much smaller to get under low furniture - and I don't think taking out the long hose/come handle on the Dyson is particularly effective - or as fast.
This message was modified Apr 6, 2011 by vacmanuk
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #36 Apr 6, 2011 12:16 pm |
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Realizing that the uprights are used primarily on carpeting BUT I find the, as I said, that the dyson ball models are not as easy to use on barefloors and tiles as the swivel/twist of the ORECK, MIELE and NIMBLE. As we see from dyson's evolution of the ball since the DC15, a change with the DC18, and then with the DC24/25 ball series. Talk recently says another dyson ball is due out in short order. And perhaps dyson will refine the ball mechanism further. Carmine D. What is so difficult about using a dyson on carpeting and floors? Just tilt the handle to the left or right,while vacuuming, then the cleaning head turns. The vacuum cleaner does the same thing on floor as the carpeting. Actually, there would be less resistance on floors, when pushing/pulling, compared to vacuuming thick carpeting. The swivel/twist action is going to work on all surfaces. How is changing the design going to make the dyson swivel/twist much better?
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #37 Apr 6, 2011 1:11 pm |
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Id disagree here and the perfect example is the SEBO X4 against SEBO Felix. The Felix is much more controllable and faster at pick up. It is also much better than either full size Dyson Ball or the smaller one. Why? The Felix floor head gets under low furniture and whilst SEBO's X4 does too, the Felix has that swivel head which gets around corners which minimises having to turn a traditional upright around corners like the fixed wheels on the X4. The ball does not go under low furniture for the moment. Perhaps Dyson's new Ball upright in the future will be much smaller to get under low furniture - and I don't think taking out the long hose/come handle on the Dyson is particularly effective - or as fast. We are talking about the swiveling/twisting action that these brands are focusing on. The dyson has the greater swiveling action compared to other vacuum cleaners. Do the test yourself. Turn the dyson to the right, as far as it goes, then do the same w/the SEBO Felix. The dyson will have a wider degree turn than others. For those who want a visual, check out the link of the Felix video #2 of the Felix in action. http://www.sebo.us/video_download.aspx?vdtitle=felix_sales.flv&vname=FELIX_Product_Demonstration# Pay attention at 1:08 and especially around 4:25. Watch how much she must swivel the handle in order to turn the cleaning head slightly. Also, if you watch her vacuum under the bar stools, she swivels the handle, but then she must turn the vacuums direction by pushing the handle like "non-swiveling" vacuum cleaners. It is fine to say the vacuum cleaner swivels, but what is important is what are the results of the cleaning head, from that swiveling. It is easy to move the handle, watch the cleaning head move side to side and say "I am controlling the vacuum cleaner". What are the results from the swiveling/twisting? iMacdaddy and Carmine felt that Nimble was better at swiveling than the dyson. The dyson can turn at a wider degree. As for SEBO getting under low furniture and dysons cannot, well, I have always believed that. We are not talking about that. We are talking swiveling/twisting features. Can you twist the Felix and put it under the low furniture? No you cannot. The Felix must lay flat, just like the SEBO uprights(Xseries).
This message was modified Apr 6, 2011 by Mike_W
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #38 Apr 6, 2011 1:11 pm |
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Hi Karen: I was at Lowe's yesterday and it was on display and stocked on the shelf. However, true to form for Lowe's and stores like it when it comes to vacuums, it was missing the top of the dirt bin container [brand new], and when I plugged in there was no suction. After several minutes of running, examining, and testing, with 2 Lowe's persons in close sight and earshot, and not receiving any request for assistance, I politely placed the plug protector back on, wrapped up the cord, and stored back away on the display. Waiting a bit longer around the aisle and still no interest. So I went forth and bought what I needed and left. A lost $300 sale. BTW, I did check out the Kobalt canister for $100 in another aisle [and talked about here recently]. It was 10 foot up in the air on a shelve display tied down and unable to be used and perused by customers. Another lost sale. Carmine D. Carmine, This is everywhere in retail these days. People who are alert, intelligent, walk purposefully rather than shuffle their feet, and are not plugged into a cell phone, or don't have their thumbs flying over a keyboard are ignored because the average clerk is intimidated by them. The clerk receives no training because instead of an asset, he.she is viewed as an expense. As the number of retailers shrinks their size increases and their concern for the customer decreases day by day. I make an effort to see to it that management knows when an employee has done a good job in assisting me, even though it is their job far too many don't do it and receive no encouragement from management to excel. Trebor
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #39 Apr 6, 2011 4:05 pm |
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What is so difficult about using a dyson on carpeting and floors? Just tilt the handle to the left or right,while vacuuming, then the cleaning head turns. The vacuum cleaner does the same thing on floor as the carpeting. Actually, there would be less resistance on floors, when pushing/pulling, compared to vacuuming thick carpeting. The swivel/twist action is going to work on all surfaces. How is changing the design going to make the dyson swivel/twist much better?
First, the original DC15 ball was too big bulky and $#%*bersome. Two, the DC18 Slim was more manageable but still top heavy and prone to tip/fall over. Three, the current DC24/25 series have rib spines on the outside surface of the ball. These make the ball motion herky jerky over stiff surfaces like floors and tiles. AND.. maybe the reason in part that the motor harness wiring fails under warranty on the DC25 [which uses a larger ball wheel]. Finally, the big disappointment to me and perhaps others like Vacmanuk is that the profile of the dyson ball models are high and awkward and fail to get under most of today's furniture. Forcing conversion to tool use. More time and effort by users.
Having said all the above, if you like them, fine go for it. I don't like the ball wheels. Never have. I prefer the twist/swivel of the ORECK, MIELE and E-Lux Nimble. And after Vacmanuk posted and reminded me the SEBO Felix, which has been marketed for years now and one of my favorite vacuums to recommend to persons with smaller homes/cleaning areas as a possible choice for them in the $500 range. I suggest, since you ask, that dyson engineers redesign the current and past ball models/Slim into a revised ball version that combines the best features of both the DC18 and DC24/25 into one. Lower profile for use under furniture with a better wheel mechanism for navigating hard surface floors. Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #40 Apr 6, 2011 4:11 pm |
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Carmine,
This is everywhere in retail these days. People who are alert, intelligent, walk purposefully rather than shuffle their feet, and are not plugged into a cell phone, or don't have their thumbs flying over a keyboard are ignored because the average clerk is intimidated by them. The clerk receives no training because instead of an asset, he.she is viewed as an expense. As the number of retailers shrinks their size increases and their concern for the customer decreases day by day. I make an effort to see to it that management knows when an employee has done a good job in assisting me, even though it is their job far too many don't do it and receive no encouragement from management to excel.
Trebor
Hi Trebor:
Ironically, in the same visit, I met up with a Lowe's assistant who was wheel chair bound with mechanized propolsion. He spoke to me FIRST as we crossed paths and we struck up a conversation on general issue matters, nothing retail oriented. Tho I was in a hurry to get to my next destination, I paused and relaxed with him for a brief and enjoyble mutual conversation. The next time I frequent this Lowe's store location, I plan to look for him. Carmine D.
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #41 Apr 6, 2011 10:10 pm |
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We are talking about the swiveling/twisting action that these brands are focusing on. The dyson has the greater swiveling action compared to other vacuum cleaners. Do the test yourself. Turn the dyson to the right, as far as it goes, then do the same w/the SEBO Felix. The dyson will have a wider degree turn than others.
For those who want a visual, check out the link of the Felix video #2 of the Felix in action.
http://www.sebo.us/video_download.aspx?vdtitle=felix_sales.flv&vname=FELIX_Product_Demonstration#
Pay attention at 1:08 and especially around 4:25. Watch how much she must swivel the handle in order to turn the cleaning head slightly. Also, if you watch her vacuum under the bar stools, she swivels the handle, but then she must turn the vacuums direction by pushing the handle like "non-swiveling" vacuum cleaners.
It is fine to say the vacuum cleaner swivels, but what is important is what are the results of the cleaning head, from that swiveling. It is easy to move the handle, watch the cleaning head move side to side and say "I am controlling the vacuum cleaner". What are the results from the swiveling/twisting? iMacdaddy and Carmine felt that Nimble was better at swiveling than the dyson. The dyson can turn at a wider degree.
As for SEBO getting under low furniture and dysons cannot, well, I have always believed that. We are not talking about that. We are talking swiveling/twisting features. Can you twist the Felix and put it under the low furniture? No you cannot. The Felix must lay flat, just like the SEBO uprights(Xseries).
The Felix has been awarded a best buy from WHICH UK for carpet performance - DC33 did not rate in that respect. Now you can take all you want from that - and there would be many variables taken into account - but the Felix also scored higher on hard floor performance too. Taken on board what you say in the video regarding the SEBO shown. However Mike, when she goes between the bar stools, you don't have to do what she does - infact I'd have just swivelled the Felix between the legs and turned left or right. What she does is straighten up before she turns. You don't have to do that with the Felix - and yes - you control the movement from the handle - the design of the Felix with its swivel built into the floor head and other tools mimic the use of cylinder vacuums, likewise the components can be used on all of their models. I've yet to go under low furniture with a cylinder vacuum's tube without going side ways or lowering it lower to the floor to get under low furniture. The exception to the rule is SEBO's deluxe 2 way suction floor head that has two large wheels at the back and no storage hook at the back - whereas Miele ones have the obligatory nib - and this is an optional floor head for the Felix. Only then can you go under low furniture in a straight line without having to go left or right in order for the floor head to make contact with the floor - but the plus is that you can go left or right with that type of floor head.
This message was modified Apr 6, 2011 by vacmanuk
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #43 Apr 7, 2011 2:09 pm |
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First, the original DC15 ball was too big bulky and $#%*bersome. Two, the DC18 Slim was more manageable but still top heavy and prone to tip/fall over. Three, the current DC24/25 series have rib spines on the outside surface of the ball. These make the ball motion herky jerky over stiff surfaces like floors and tiles. AND.. maybe the reason in part that the motor harness wiring fails under warranty on the DC25 [which uses a larger ball wheel]. Finally, the big disappointment to me and perhaps others like Vacmanuk is that the profile of the dyson ball models are high and awkward and fail to get under most of today's furniture. Forcing conversion to tool use. More time and effort by users. Having said all the above, if you like them, fine go for it. I don't like the ball wheels. Never have. I prefer the twist/swivel of the ORECK, MIELE and E-Lux Nimble. And after Vacmanuk posted and reminded me the SEBO Felix, which has been marketed for years now and one of my favorite vacuums to recommend to persons with smaller homes/cleaning areas as a possible choice for them in the $500 range. I suggest, since you ask, that dyson engineers redesign the current and past ball models/Slim into a revised ball version that combines the best features of both the DC18 and DC24/25 into one. Lower profile for use under furniture with a better wheel mechanism for navigating hard surface floors. Carmine D. You have failed to disprove me. Instead you mention other things about the dyson and its different models. You talk about how the dyson cannot get under furniture. All these things are not what I am talking about . When it comes to twist/swivel features of some vacuum cleaners, I have found dyson to be the best at this feature. This brand has a wider degree turn than others. You have not disproved it. You have not even tried the Nimble yet. You later say that you like the Nimble, because it does better on floors than carpeting. It is an upright! You have not tested the Nimble on carpeting, because Lowe's does not have test rugs for demos.
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http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/ Highlights: - 14 foot cleaning reach - LED headlight - "Ball-like" swivel action - Metal Soleplate - 5 year warranty - $299
