Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

-- Does anyone with oriental rug/wood floor plus pet use and like the non-electric? Which model and head(s)? Is the Turbo head a mistake for my situation? Anyone with a pet use this?   I like the ergo handle (I have bad joints), hepa, parquet twist looks nice for wood and getting into tight places. I like not having to switch heads, but could get used to it if necessary. I'm not sure any one machine has the combo I might end up wanting, so I may need to supplement.

-- Should i get the S4 on sale for $499 with lower suck;  and add an 450-s to complete the package?  Is it strong enough?

-- Or go with non-elec S5 and add heads/ergo handle?  Is the S5 a better investment? How is it better/different?  

-- Or go electric? - which I'm not really feeling right now pricewise, and because it seems like overkill for my situation and like i might park the head and not use it, but will keep an open mind (I don't want the s2)

[PS. right now my floors aren't sealed and the dirt gets stuck between wood strips so need suck power, but this will change sometime and before sealing I'll likely rent a commercial vac to super clean.

Most grateful for your advice and experience. 

Many thanks.

Maddy

HI Maddy. I shall and try and answer some of the points you raise - even if I'm a UK consumer - but a Miele owner with pets. The U.S Miele "names" of the vacuums don't travel here in the UK - we just go by model number. However there are a few things I'd like to share with you as the LAST thing you want to do is to accept the dealer's word as being final.

1. The Miele S4/S4000 range (all) use a F/J/M dust bag which has a capacity of 3.5 to 4 litres, whereas the S5/S5000 has a larger 4.5 G/N dust bag.  The S4000/S4 is the "small" baby canister vacuum of the Miele range with the S2/S2000 being the "middle" range vacuum and the flagship premium range, the S5/S5000. Generally when it comes to pet hair in my own S4 Miele vacuum, and general household dust the minimum time a bag has lasted has been 2 months. This may be different to other Miele owners and the amount of household dust the machine has to collect. 
2. The air driven turbo brush has two points on the base that can be unscrewed to get into the brush roller. Protected by a lifetime toothed belt, the larger air driven turbo brush is lightweight (around 140g) on the end of the suction pipe and also gives a lighter gliding for use on hard flooring thanks to it's built in changeable slider on the front of the floor head. This lets out air so that the turbo brush is easier to glide as well as using on delicate surfaces: I have Indian pure silk rugs that the air driven turbo brush has been used on and little damage has ever occurred. Both the roller brush on the turbo brush AND electric brush are identical. Some members on here would probably advise you to go with the electric brush, but for ease of use I would definately go for the air-driven brush alone because it is far lighter to use and just as efficient as the powered head. The difference is that the powered head has it's own power lead which would have to be connected to the vacuum via another lead. Heck if you just buy a base model that has suction only heads, you can keep the turbo brush for use on your upholstery.
   
3. Miele don't make an S4 model that has a powered lead attached electro-brush to the best of my knowledge. They had engineered a long life battery chargeable electrobrush to offer their owners something similar to the bigger S5 model but it can be an expensive part to buy.
   
4. In the States, the S4 and S5 are the same in the UK - they all have the same powered motor on board the vacuum. The powered floor head has it's own motor, so if you tried it out on one model and didn't try it on another, then the one with the electric head would naturally feel stronger regardless of the model it's been tried on.
5. If weight is an issue and you live in a small home, then the S4 range will be suitable. If you live in a larger home (and going by the surface area you provide), ANY of the S5 models will suffice.
6. The 450 floor head you give as an example is the standard 2 way brush up/down floor head that is suitable for hard floors and carpets, and yes the metal sole plate CAN scratch hard flooring. I have a Parquet brush that was an optional cost accessory for my Miele S4 (also fits the entire range of Miele canister vacuums) and swap it over when the turbo brush is not needed (also in the UK, the S4 I have doesn't come with the turbo brush and thus I had to buy it separately.)
7. CHECK EBAY for tools and attachments. For example: Item number 370094404816 shows the actual parquet brush I have that I bought and use. The STB 205 turbo brush is also being listed by another seller on EBAY - this will minimise extra costs that sellers are doing with new vacuums alone with specific floor heads you get at the time of purchase.

Ultimately Maddy, the beauty of a Miele vacuum is that you can custom build what you want. By shopping on EBAY and through sellers, you can pick up the floor head choices without having to pay through the nose for a specific model that Miele would love to give you the idea of purchasing. Thus it CAN BE cheaper if you source the different floor heads as well as the filter changes because some S5 models don't come with the HEPA or Active Air Clean filter that you can also buy singularly and fit into either the S4 or S5. For example item 270678941858 shows a HEPA filter suitable for both the S4 and S5 that would be ideal for pet hair odour.

On the basis, the info you have supplied here would make me suggest that you buy a BASE Miele S5 such as the "Ariel" model you refer to. It has a longer amount of cord on offer, the smaller cleaning tools all fit inside a little door on the front, and it is a far more complete vacuum (albeit larger) that has everything to hand. The S4 (and S2 which uses the same larger dust bag on board the S5) has a lousy tool clip that sits underneath the hose and I personally hate it. In general use when the vacuum gets pulled around, or made to sit on stairs, the holder on my S4 can often snap off, or the tools go flying off. The S5's built in tool hideaway doesn't suffer from this! Also you can buy other parts like the "Ergo Handle," but it can be expensive if you just want that part. I had one on my old Miele S571 - it feels nice due to its rubbery underside but it is heavier than the sloping bent handle on the cheaper models. Hope all that helps! Heck, if you buy the basic model and it doesn't pick up the pet hair with the floor tool supplied, at least you can shop on EBAY or shop around for the STB 205 turbo brush in time, or even the mini pet hair brush.

When it comes to pet hair pick up and on a myriad of floor textures, a Miele canister is one of the best ways to go. Their entire range is generally lightweight, well made and offer superb reliability when maintained. Their optional cost accessories are also vast and usually easy to find.

Here's a web site that offers a very good synopsis of comparative analyses of MIELE canisters based on consumer cleaning needs and requirements:

http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/vacoverview.html

Carmine D.

 

maddy4 wrote:
Hi Maddy

I use the turbo brush on rugs and parquet on delicate floors. For vinyl and the limited rooms I have wall to wall carpet, I use the standard 450 floorhead that comes with the S4. However when the floor head on my S571 suddenly gave way after many years of abuse, I bought the bigger 550 S5 floor head that you speak of. It has a stronger action only because it has a much wider suction channel and as your dealer says, it has a whole perimeter "all around" wall of stiff bristles that come down against the 450 floor head that only has the bristles at the front. Whilst it only differs from suction channel sizes and the wall of brushes, I'm not a fan of the 550 floor head because the button release takes a hefty "shove" of the foot to get the brushes up or down and the softer pedal on the lighter 450 is far easier as well as being a lighter and far more compact floor head to use in general. However to minimise the scratching, this is another reason to why I bought the default Parquet brush. My own home is small so the cable length was the least importance - but I've accumulated quite a long list of Miele spares and extra floor heads. I recommend most buyers to get the S5 as it has everything on board compared to the cheaper and smaller S4. The S5 also has a lot more resale value if you ever think about selling it second hand!

My mum's home is much larger and has a lot more floors to cover which is why I personally bought a SEBO D2 which has just come out in the States. It is fairly more expensive than the Miele vacuums but does everything with just as much efficiency with a much needed longer amount of cable on offer (nearly twice as much cable as the S5!!)

When it comes to non-branded turbo brushes, you have to take caution though. Miele's main large tools lock onto (as with SEBO) the main suction tubes and handle (the small cleaning tools don't but this isn't much of a hardship as they fit friction fit and rarely come off) so once they're on, they're usually on for life until you unlock them. I've tried "aftermarket" other branded turbo brushes that give as much speed but don't feel as well made, or easier to glide despite having the same air outlet holes or selectors. The Miele STB 205 is well made in general, has an easy to unlock bottom plate for cleaning and for pet hair, the raised hood means less clogging. A lot of the different floor heads I've bought don't always have easy to remove sole plates and most of them need 2 to 4 screws to undo if anything gets clogged. Also they are far from easy to glide and often don't come with lockable buttons to lock onto the Miele tubes. They often come with a plastic adaptor that slides on but can be tricky to take off when you don't need the turbo brush added.

To be honest though Maddy, when it comes to using the Parquet brush, the tool itself has quite a thick wall of brushes and it can often clog with dust meaning that you have to constantly pick the dust off the brush and push it into the suction channel. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT to any other Parquet brush tool on the market. The Twister you speak of has a shorter amount of brushes and a swivel neck that is designed to go into corners. It can work well if you have wide spaces between appliances and walls, but not worth it really if you don't. It doesn't need as much cleaning though because of the shorter bristles but the Parquet brush has proper horsehair which is softer and kinder to most delicate surfaces such as real mahogany flooring or marble.

I've actually reviewed a lot of Miele accessories fit for consumer reviews. If you have the time, have a look at the following:

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-turbobrush-stb-205-2/1166589/
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sf-aac-50-active-air-clean-filter/1298535/
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sbd-550-3/1202560/
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sfd20-flexible-crevice-nozzle/

Once again if you buy the base model and add "what you need" from EBAY you'll still be under guarantee for having bought the basic machine rather than be pressured to buy a specific model from Miele's dealers. However I'm not too sure if the U.S have the same "cost optional" 10 year guarantee that is available on selected models, so it is well worth considering to ask the dealer what guarantees you are actually able to get.

Hope this is all helpful to you. FINAL LINE; I wouldn't recommend buying any other turbo brush tool other than the Miele ones. Miele also make a "mini" stair cleaning tool (but it doesn't hide on the machine) and goes under the model name/number Miele STB 101

Hi there Maddy, et al -
Great wealth of information has been provided to you ... Can I ask why your dealer hasn't shown you the Miele S2 line? Electrobrush models for both $500 and $600 range... Just thought I would let you know that they are available as well - more or less as an "intro" to the Miele Brand (same motors as the S4 and S5  to boot!!)

Maddy First off let me say I'm a dealer so you may not want to listen to my advice. LOL First off I HIGHLY recommend the Powerhead over the Turbo. My demo turbo is always in need of attention. It hates sand/grit and after a year or so it will hate hair. If you know vacuums and/or have the time to maintain them you might like the turbo. I don't. If you only had 2-3 area rugs and no pets I would then recommend the turbo. The S4 is an amazingly well constructed machine I'm not sure why your dealer doesn't think so...unless he's purposely trying to move you to a higher pricepoint. On all that I have tested, the suction equals the S5. I would recommend the Libra at $829 (average IN STORE Price). It has everything you want, Sealed HEPA System, Powerhead, Swivel Floor brush, Large Bag, Well Made, Tools on board and no need to continue shopping for add ons. Unless your once again into the whole vacuum thing or love the thrill of bargain shopping, hunting for bargains on tools, filters, bags, etc is really a waste of time vs the amount of savings in return. Heck your willing to pay extra at the allergy club online instead of a your local vac shop. Next, if price were an issue, I'd get the S2 Delphi and then find the add on bargains.

My brief experience with Miele turbo brushes is they are relatively quiet compared to the competition, but bog down easily and can stall out on carpeting.  Better to go electric.

Miele offers two different electric Powerheads, the 217 and more expensive234/236 series. 
The 217 is smaller, lighter, and has longer, softer bristles.  It's a good all around powered brush but so far only manages a "good" for rugs from the Consumers Union tests of Miele cannisters.
The 234/236 has headlight, is wider, heavier, has 5 height adjustments.  Consumers Union's never tested it but for me it's better on rugs and not so good on bare floors than the 217,

The S5's bigger bag means you can go longer between bag changes, but the vacuum will be a little larger, heavier and more expensive.

Good luck!

vacomatic wrote:

Hi,

Just to make mention, there is now the SEB228 power nozzle.  The housing design has been altered but it appears to have all the fetures of the top of the line PN except the flourescent headlight is gone.  The Miele "stoe" is offering it  for $209.  I have only seen this on Miele shop-online pages and have no idea when it will start to sell with canisters.

http://www.mielestore.com/stores/miele/buy_online/item_details.aspx?product_category_id=1&product_group_id=1&product_subgroup_id=1&item_id=267&product_type=ACC&item_number=

Venson

Venson wrote:
What did I tell you Maddy? There would be different opinions - and that's good but i BET You never expected such a huge response before - if only, all things in life were as valued making all kinds of other purchases! However, Guys - Maddy wants a bargain and doesn't want to feel pushed to buy expensive - see previous posts.

The Miele S5 UK is different and you'd have to use a transformer to use it each time if you bought it from the UK to be shipped to the US. This applies to any UK appliance that has a different voltage.

As for the S2, Lucky - Maddy has already been made aware of the S2's poor reliability - not from me but from the dealer that Maddy has gone to.

When it comes to dealing with precious rugs et al I've only ever used the air driven turbo brush. The electric heads have a motor all of their own that powers up including the motor suction from the vacuum. Though similar, the electric heads are heavier whilst the larger turbo brush is lighter. Granted the air driven one will clog - but then so do powered motor heads - and both have easy to remove screws on the base plate to clean the brush from clogs.

I must admit it's not easy being a pet owner when it comes to cleaning up animals that moult. My SEBO Felix & Sebo uprights deals with that quite effectively, but Maddy would find it hard to buy a Felix or X/Windsor Sensor on the amount of money she is prepared to pay out and not being able to clean hard flooring at the same time unless she considers the Felix upright with the additional parquet brush changeover.

Maddy:

I would argue the case that you buy the best MIELE cann you can afford right now.  Recommending an electric P/N over the air turbine.  Why?  In a few months/and even more likely longer, the value/purchasing power of your current money will get you less [perhaps significantly so].  With the current MIELE inventory for sale, you'll get the most bang for your buck not just now but well into the near and distant future.  Maybe you're buying more than you need right now, but not for future.  You mentioned "investment."  As an investment if your needs change in the future, by upgrading your wants now, you're ready for whatever happens in the future cleaning wise. 

Don't have to be concerned about electric P/N on delicate carpeting, just adjust the suction power on the MIELE S5 to compensate.  Simple solution.

Carmine D.

Maddy,  Whatever you buy in the MIELE canister line, electric P/N or air, compact or full size, you'll be pleased and they will do the job superbly.  You can't make a mistake or go wrong.  IMMER BSSER.

Carmine D.