Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi,

Which? magazine has just made a preliminary announcement re the Sebo D series vacuums.  Bags being my preference, I was pleased to read that the D series sports a 6-liter bag (about a gallon and a half).  The airbelt is a little wasted on me as I've never had problems with marring furniture.  However, if it will keep the machine itself from looking like it belongs in a second-hand shop for a few years I'm all for it.

Which? plans to test the D series soon.

The story is here: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/07/new-vacs-with-bumpers-to-protect-your-furniture-219804

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

The good thing in bad economic times is that more American vacuum consumers frequent the indies for parts and repairs rather than buying new and throwing away.  More foot traffic in the indies.  More opportunities for the vacuum industry pros/store owners and operators to show off MIELE, SEBO and Lindhaus brands and models.  More pitches, more sales.  And brand loyal customers for life. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Things are getting a little scary in New York . . . .

I was approached by a woman returning a vacuum she'd just bought. This woman wanted absolutely nothing to do with upright vacs or canisters with PNs or even turbo-tools.

The lady had a bit of an accent so it took a moment or two of back and forth to get the gist of what she meant but it was easy to finally sort out. She owned expensive heirloom-quality silk and wool carpets. No pets, no kids, no heavy traffic, "Go to your local vacuum shop and ask for a good straight-suction canister," I said. Problem solved? No. It turned out she'd no knowledge of where her local vac sales and repair shop might be. I have met several other persons who are absolutely unaware of where a nearby independent vac shop may be. Instead, they run to a department store for solutions. A place where solutions are far less likely to be found other than buying another vacuum. I cannot say whether this is an indicator of the decline in New York vac shops but I do wonder.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Here too in Las Vegas.  Must be contagious.  Today, I bought a SEARS Kenmore upright play vacuum for one of the grands.  $24.99   When I paid for it at the cashier register, the saleslady, a very lovely lady and a store manager, asked me if I would like to purchase a one year product replacement warranty.  After I stopped and thought about what she asked, due to my bad hearing, I said to her: You're kidding me aren't you?  She said No.  Realizing she was serious, I asked how much.  She said $2.99.  Of course, I declined. 

Carmine D.

Just picked up a SEBO D4 Premium (Onyx) after much thought, should be here in a week. Also picked up an Airbelt Cover #6047AM/01 (Dark Gray) to replace the original Airbelt Cover #6047AM/07 (Black/Silver) and an ET-2 #9958AM (Onyx) power head. I simply could not stand the pattern on the original bumper cover and have wide open expanses of carpet and engineered wood flooring. Will complement a Ladybug TEKNO 2350 and replaces a Dyson DC28 Animal (of which I have two). Will be comparing the D4 to a Miele Polaris (parquet vs. parquet). I also have a DC14 Animal from six years ago which sees virtually no use. Was seriously considering the Miele Capricorn, but the D4 won out by virtue of it being a newly released model. Only wished the SEBO filter bags were equipped with a spring-loaded seal ala Miele. Concerned that the gloss finish of the power brushes will show wear marks faster than if the finish were matte (Ladybug accessories look virtually brand new through extended use due in large part to their matte finish). What prompted me to look towards a new vac addition was the fact that both of my DC28 Animal units would light up Sharp KC-860U dust sensors while vacuuming. The sensor of a Blueair 650E would also note air quality degradation when a DC28 was in use nearby. This was simply unacceptable for me. Will see how the D4 fares against the four Plasmacluster and two Blueair sensor-equipped units I have scattered throughout the house and report back...

adamlau wrote:
One can often spot a collector from a mile off : ) As the owner of the D2 Total, the body on mine has sustained a few scratches already but it is still quite shiny. What a waste of money though just because you don't like the aesethetic value of the bumper - don't forget regardless of the design that the cleaner air is diffused out the sides from the Air Belt compared to the hot facial you get with a Miele. You'll find changing the bags on the SEBO easier - they simply need to be fitted over a spring and then the door down to lock and the bags have caps already on them which only means a matter of bending over and manually sealing them. If you can't wait to see what the D4 is like check out You Tube - you'll see from the following video that the manual suction control dial lights up faster as soon as the variable suction through the handle buttons is increased. Frankly I think that is a total waste of LEDs when it could have been put to better use on the floor heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXql1QIFYvo

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmw-rFC2Ws

First impressions... The SEBO D4 Premium was shipped with Airbelt Cover #6047AM/01 (Dark Gray), did need to replace it for our desired aesthetic. Unit was received direct from SEBO America as brand-new with light swirls and scratches along the body and the ET-1 power head. It goes without saying that I would have much preferred a unit in pristine shape. A single, unused filter bag was pre-installed. Accessories, filters, and hose appeared to have been unused as well. Aside from being more stable when parked, the ET-2 does a better job on smooth, level floors, brush roll turned off on both, setting 1 of 4. Whereas the ET-1 failed to pick up stray ants with consistency, the ET-2 had no issues. We attributes this to the additional weight of the ET-2, which keeps the power head down to the floor. Would also have preferred a setting below 1 in order deep clean low-pile, commercial berber loop. D4 Premium as an article of furniture, accessories as mild living room accents...

The standard Parquet Brush #6391DA? It does a better job than the power heads for both wood and porcelain tile flooring. Overall, we found the parquet tool to be a bit lightweight, brush lift and loss of suction was a common complaint from household members. Perhaps the Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG with its additional footing and weight might help in this regard. In terms of raw suction and volume flow, the D4 falls short and simply cannot compare to the monster ability of the Dyson DC28 Animal. Relatively small diameter hose end (approximately 1-7/8" OD) of the D4 makes it slightly more tedious to perform tasks such as vacuuming the head after a good shearing. Changing accessories is straightforward, simple and fast. Bag changes are even faster. Cap, angle, lift and dispose. Align, drop in, pull back, done. Rotation of the hose end to canister neck transition not as fluid as I had expected. This tends to jostle the canister about when vacuuming aggressively, ball bearings would have been welcome. One workaround is to snap adjust the hose accordingly using the the off hand. This essentially turns aggressive vacuuming with the D4 into a two-handed affair. Had considered the light ring on the canister to be a gimmick at first, found its positive feedback to be rather useful over time. Noise quality (subjective) is very good. Canister does emit a high-pitched whine, though not quite as high as a Miele Polaris on max, or a Dyson DC28 Animal. Coupled with a power head, the D4 on max is not exactly silent.

Additional observations...Versus the Miele Polaris (parquet vs. parquet), we may prefer the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush to the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA as the SBB300 is wider and deeper with a reduced tendency to lift. From the hose end alone sans attachment and with news bags installed in both units, the Polaris felt as if it had greater static suction. Additional gripe with the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA: Poor edge cleaning, brush strips are visibly recessed from the housing. This is less pronounced with the SBB300. One workaround is to tilt and run the front edge of the brush along requisite edges as the rubber wheels of the tool prevent quality edge suction. Bottom line: The Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush appears to be superior for wide expanses of wood/grouted tile flooring whereas the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA is more nimble in getting around those ever present nooks and crannies (a boon for cluttered floors) and was preferred over its Miele counterpart for its handiness over an array of tabletops, sills and ledges.

Gripe with the ET-1/ET-2: Lack of replaceable side bumpers. Certainly one could replace the bearing block on the left, but what of the other side? What of the chassis itself? Two days of testing and hard use across two large homes and the power heads are exhibiting signs of wear along both sides of the chassis. A tool which costs 1K ought to have additional means and measures with which to keep it looking as if it cost 1K. The crevice tool can only do so much along. I cannot say enough about the Airbelt Cover as it has proved itself worthy of praise every single time we vacuumed. As an aside, we are not as enamored of the Miele FJM 7291640 filter bag as we were in the past due to the hinges preventing a complete cap seal. Also, where is the SEBO attachments trolley? A mini push cart replete with attachment points would most certainly be welcome from the standpoint of owners with multiple tools for multiple floor and surface types...

More observations...Would have appreciated grooves along the side of the canister with support for storing additional brushes e.g. Hand-held Turbo Brush #6179DA and Radiator Brush #1496DG. Support for parking power heads on the canister (only non-powered floor tools can be accomodated). A more elegant method to disconnect the hose from the handle. Despite its shortcomings, I remain a fan of the D4. Will be going head-to-head with a new Miele Capricorn next week. ET-2 versus the vaunted SEB236 on newly installed carpet. Not necessarily in terms of cleaning power, but rather in terms of features, general ergonomics, relative drawbacks and ease of use.

adamlau wrote:
A lot of good points but you expect too much - SEBO aren't interested in making their vacuums luxurious looking - their plastics are better made than Miele in most cases and even the roughest machine in the SEBO range after years of abuse will continue to keep working - my 15 year old X1 Automatic can attest to that - which is now working in the hands of a friend and when I sold it on, it went to a new appreciative owner who didn't care what the machine looked like - and I wasn't going to spend more money on getting a new bin door just because the old one was scratched, or similarly a new hood because the old one had scratches at the side.

I have a Miele Parquet brush tool and a SEBO Parquet deluxe - both brush strips can be removed on both the Miele and SEBO items but the Sebo brush tool is far easier to move from the handle with pipes added than the stiffer plastic on the Miele floor tool - not ideal for getting around table legs on stone floors either when the SEBO neck is smoother and a lot easier to turn around corners.

I do however realise that if you are in the U.S or Canada, the cost prices for SEBO and MIELE are fairly expensive and in this respect you may feel obliged to comment on your expectations.. In the UK the story is slightly different - a D4 Premium costs brand new £398-64 equivalent to $593-87. Also parts like front bumper that you speak of can be obtained from SEBO as well as the side locks - but again, the company expect machines to be abused - that is what they make after all compared to Miele being a larger - and much wider company in terms of household appliances, even though my S5 canister managed to sustain paint scrapes on the handle and back of the machine - in less than 2 weeks of being used. I don't see that being a complaint personally. I'd have more of a problem if the motor or tools snapped - which has seldom happened to me with a Miele, although not unheard of with other tool holder problems I've had with their S2.

The ET1/2 have no difference in weight distribution on surfaces- all you're seeing is a bigger floor head/brush roll barrel which may look to the eye as if pile is getting a deeper clean. Obviously the bigger floor head is heavier due to the bigger roller brushes added.  In both cases the manual dial height adjustment isn't changed - if it was the case that the bigger floor head gave a heavier and deeper clean, you can be sure that SEBO would have offered another height setting on the floor head. SEBO are first and foremost an engineering company who think about the versatile uses of their products rather than giving everything a smooth, organic finish- another reason to why you won't find silver inserts compared to Miele.

Not sure what you mean about the filter bag on the SEBO. There's a cap automatically fitted which you simply swing over come the time to empty - or are you looking for an automatic seal same as the one that had to be redesigned on the Miele dust bags?

I have no idea of why you would want an "attachments trolley." The D4 was made to accomodate the electric floor head and offer owners the choice of using traditional non-electric smaller tools compared to the electric head. The whole IDEA of the D series was to create a replacement model to the C series, as well as remaining lightweight. This is mirrored in the parts, floor heads, tubing and tooling. Adding a recess on the body to accomodate the mini turbo brush could well be an idea SEBO may make in the future - There's certainly space where the bin door is to accomodate something like that - but then I fear the cost price would be higher as well as the bin door having to be made thicker, heavier as a result to accomodate the turbo tool in the first place and then to compensate the added weight with extra springs so that door doesn't crush under pressure. You can buy a material cloth bag to hang up or carry with you to put extra tools in - it may not be available to buy in the U.S but its certainly available in the U.K and doesn't cost much. I use two - one to carry the bags for my X, D, K and Felix machines and the other bag to carry tools in.

Lastly - and this is a factor that I've always stood by - no matter what companies tell you, canister vacuums that have an electric embedded hose with an electronic floor head is always going to be heavy and slightly bulkier to use than the same machines without electronics fitted. I've never tried the D4 Premium because it does look bulky and I know I'd feel compromised to use the electrified hose in the same way I feel compromised with my own smaller K3 Premium. This is a reason to why UK buyers aren't taken in by canisters with the electric head. Although it is common place in the U.S, Europe still stands by suction only heads or air driven turbo brushes - because by and large, if buyers want deep clean, they'll buy uprights.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have noted the same. As an aside, I have also noted that the Miele Capricorn casters are much for fluid than those found on the SEBO D4 Premium.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have experienced quite the opposite when comparing the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush vs. the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA. The action of the SBB300 swivel head is far smoother and much easier to manipulate than that of the #6391DA. This may not be the case with the SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG. Regardless, we noted that hair would tend to accumulate within the SBB300 and attributed such occurrences to the swivel design of the brush with its raised lip and potential snag points along the interior wall.

vacmanuk wrote:
I suppose our expectations for a 1K unit should be re-evaluated for one which actually sits in the 600 price range. Good point.

vacmanuk wrote:
Agreed. Though while the left and right bearing blocks can be replaced, the left block sits flush with the power head chassis. It is the marring of the chassis body and the ease with which it is scratched which concerns us. Be that as it may, the concern is minor though genuine if retaining factory aesthetics for an extended period of time is desired.

vacmanuk wrote:
See my previous comments regarding the pickup of ants. I should clarify that my comments on keeping the brush roll down is primarily directed towards an aggressive draw where the ET-1 has a tendency to lift off the floor surface. This issue is also evident in the Airbelt K demonstration videos on the SEBO America website. One workaround is to extend the telescopic handle a bit in order to retain a proper horizontal vacuuming plane.

vacmanuk wrote:
Excuse that random thought. What I meant to say was that I better appreciate how SEBO has approached the issue with the attached cap and how the Miele solution was not as effective as I had presumed. We noticed a layer of fine dust across the cap of every new Miele FMJ 7291640 filter bag after use and testing and attributed the cause to the poor seal at the hinge point pf the cap.

vacmanuk wrote:
A factory integrated look and feel of a complete and professional solution is what I am after. A system to be stored out in the open, accessories at the ready to tackle the chore of multiple surfaces. Among linear feet upon square feet of granite countertops and stainless appliances, our Ladybug TEKNO 2350 trolley accomplishes exactly that as it serves as the centerpiece appliance in the kitchen.

vacmanuk wrote:

We may be in the minority, but we feel a manually adjustable power head ought to give a clean as deep as uprights which feature automatically adjustable brush rolls. With the understanding that greater bristle and possibly carpet wear is incurred, we always set the brush head to 1 for all carpet types as this helps to offset the lower brush roll RPMs of power heads. Area rugs and mats are the only exception. We may decide to migrate to the more powerful ET-C to further close the perceived gap between uprights and canisters with power heads.