Hi,

Which? magazine has just made a preliminary announcement re the Sebo D series vacuums.  Bags being my preference, I was pleased to read that the D series sports a 6-liter bag (about a gallon and a half).  The airbelt is a little wasted on me as I've never had problems with marring furniture.  However, if it will keep the machine itself from looking like it belongs in a second-hand shop for a few years I'm all for it.

Which? plans to test the D series soon.

The story is here: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/07/new-vacs-with-bumpers-to-protect-your-furniture-219804

Venson

Interesting stuff but SEBO have already done that Airbelt with their existing C series and smaller compact K series. I love the air belt on the K as it really does minimise scrapes and also to the machine itself -- something I wish I could protect my Miele S4210 from!

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Thanks for the story/link.  I always felt the X style bags were a tad on the puny size.  The new K style [I believe that's what they are called] is alot larger.  Both I believe are manufactured in Deutschland.  But bigger is always better.  Slightly more too in cost.  8 for $20 vice 10 for $20, I think, unless the prices went up recently. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I believe you mean the new "D" style? The K series is smaller in size than the C series, though I believe the bag fill capacity is the same vacmanuk?

Hertz wrote:

SEBO X, G & C Series Bags #5093AM - Free Shipping

includes: 10 filter vacuum bags with green dust discs; compatible with Sebo X, C, and G series vacuum cleaners.

Item Code: 676224050932

$21.99

SEBO K Series Paper Bags #6629AM - Free Shipping

8 Sebo vacuum bags for Sebo K2 and K3 canister vacuums.
Item Code: 6629

$20.99

It appears the K is larger than the C and the D [if that what it is called] is larger than the K [at 6 liters].  But looks are deceiving.

Carmine D.

SEBO K Series Paper Bags #6629AM - Free Shipping

8 Sebo vacuum bags for Sebo K2 and K3 canister vacuums.

Item Code: 6629

$20.99

It appears the K is larger than the C and the D [if that what it is called] is larger than the K [at 6 liters].  But looks are deceiving.

Carmine D.

Item Code: 6629

$20.99

It appears the K is larger than the C and the D [if that what it is called] is larger than the K [at 6 liters].  But looks are deceiving.

Carmine D.

Eight bags for twenty bucks?  Thank God, Sebo hasn't been talking to Miele.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

I've often thought the same.  This is one SEBO vendor in Northern Va and its prices that I am familiar with.  I undertand it is the vendor who sells and services SEBO vacuums to the White House.  Vacmanuk posted the SEBO web site and the White House is pictured.  I have no affiliation with them [the vacuum vendor].  I suspect SEBO bag prices are pretty comparable among all SEBO sellers.  Realizing both brands and their bags are German made, it is ironic that MIELE's bags are so much more, considering the transportation costs and exchange rates are the same, and that the SEBO bags are less.  In defense of MIELE, I believe they have taken their paper bags to a higher performance level than SEBO and therein lies some of the reason for the price difference.

Carmine D.

Carmine - the SEBO K bags are 3.5 litres capacity - they are NOT bigger than the X bags.
The X bags have a 5.5 litre capacity and the New D series has 0.5 litres more at 6 litres.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks for the info.  I can see the reason for the difference in the D rather than using the X.  Half liter is larger and better. 

Carmine D.

PS:  The SEBO America Web Site is down, I presume adding the new D series canns.  The SEBO UK site shows K and X bags but no D series canns/parts yet.  Too new I presume.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi,

I certainly do believe that Miele has raised the bar regarding disposable bag efficiency and dust capture but, unless hand delivered by private coach, I'll never believe that it costs approximately $4.50 to $5.00 a bag to do it.  My best guess is $1,10 to make one and another 25-cents to put it on the boat.  The rest is pure price gouging.  I only tolerate the cost because, for once, I've found something that is exemplary not because promo copy says so but because it does so.

I forgot to add that I learned a great lesson by way of my car.  Go to the dealer and everything goes at premium price.  Start looking around on the web and elsewhere you'll find significant differences in price for practically the same thing.  I recall well that a rep at the dealerships swore that the car would be run to wrack and ruin without using its "so much better" motor oil.  I've been using a synthetic oil that they have great sales on at Costco and life is swell.

Thinking vacuum cleaners, I have the strong belief that high bag prices often have more to do with name than actual cost to manufacture.

Once famous Desco Appliances on 14th Street, it was sort of like the Mecca for parts for any brand you coulld think of, fell into the hands of new owners who sold Sebo and Bosch.  The prices were very high.  It's my assumption that considering the area -- nose-bleed high rentals, condos and coops -- the business is only surviving by way of a good supply of credit card holding customers.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
Yep, the UK site will not be updated soon, as far as the MD told me. Germany, UK and America will be the first three to get the D series and then other countries including France will get the D series.

vacmanuk wrote:

Why wouldn't the U.K site be updated soon if they're one of the first countries to get it?! Makes no sense to me. Any ideas? :P

For heavens sake Hertz, you might take into consideration that SEBO aren't a big company. The UK website will have an update later in the year and I suspect when Sebo UK update their website they will do it in their own time. You don't need all countries to have an updated site when the home company in Germany already has the D series on display and in English display options too. Compared to Miele, Sebo are still a small private company and they only have some financial reserves for updating websites etc.

The following link is to the new Ds user manual.  It's written in English and German.

http://www.sebo.de/res/docs/ger/GEBRAUCHSANWEISUNG_SEBO_AIRBELT_D.pdf

It appears there's lotsof filtering area offered.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Thanks Venson.  2100 Watts.  Wow.  I have to believe Procare on this.  The 220 v in Europe lends itself to the high horsepower motors.  Not sure that can translate equally to US 110.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
To bad that doesn't translate into much airflow.  According to their specs, 43-45 l/s, that  is about 90 CFM. 

I wonder what the suction rating is??

Vernon

Vernon wrote:

My thoughts EXACTLY! This is what I've been wondering, too.

SEBO's D series are now available to view on the UK site. Unlike Germany however the UK will only sell 2100 watt models in four trims: Storm, Titan, Total and Premium.

It has already got a seal of approval from GHI who rates it "powerful and very effective filter efficiency."

http://www.sebo.co.uk/Pages/d_seriestech.html

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks for the update vacmanuk.  D2 and D4 still not on the SEBO USA site yet.

http://sebo-vacuums.com/index.aspx

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine - they wont be for a while - Europe will get the models first then the U.S

GHI have already tested the Sebo D series but they don't say which model, even though it is clear from their review summary that from their elevated noise test that the extra sound may well be the electronic motor brush, a unit on its own which I have found to be overly noisy. Having tested my own model it does indeed register at 67 decibels without the electronic head (the D2 Total I have doesn't come with an electronic head, nor do I wish one).

http://www.allaboutyou.com/Good-Housekeeping-Tried-Tested/Sebo-Airbelt-D-vacuum-cleaner/product

GHI gave their test of the D series 86/100. Here is the top ten, with the first reaching high scores. I was expecting to see Dyson near the top but not in this respect and its good to see Miele are in this list a couple of times along with SEBO. Pity Nilfisk didn't make it as I thought they have always been a good brand.


Miele TT5000 Cat n Dog 91/100
LG Compressor Allergy Care 90/100
Miele Solution HEPA 5000 89/100
Karcher VC6300 88/100
SEBO K1 Pet 87/100
SEBO D? 86/100
Dyson DC23 Motorhead  86/100
SEBO K3 Airbelt Vulcano 86/100
Bosch Compressor BSG 86/100
Philips Marathon FC9222 83/100

Out of all these companies according to GHI's list, the majority are German brands.

vacmanuk wrote:

I would say that's a testament to Dyson making quality vacuums right there. Just to point out.

Hertz wrote:
Says nothing about whether they will still be working  5, or even, 10+ years from now.

I saw a surprising amount of Dysons in the repair line at the local high-end vacuum shop last week. Of the 20-30 vacs waiting to be repaired or picked up, I'd say ~5 were Dysons. The rest were primarily Hoovers and others of the lower level commodity variety. I didn't see a single Riccar, Miele, Bosch, or Simplicity(Riccar), even though the they are a certified repair/sales shop.

This may be an unfair observation due to Dyson's massive advertising campaign and current fad status, but it also hints at possible long term durability issues.

Moebius wrote:

I would add WRT the GHI testing of the models/brands above in vacmanuk's post that dyson's DC23 is the most expensive, in some cases almost 2-3 times more than the others tested, and had the following "drawbacks" as GHI calls them:

Drawbacks: One of the loudest and heaviest cylinders tested. Big and bulky to store. The telescopic tube is quite chunky and heavy.

May be different as one poster here claims but doesn't appear better IMHO just higher priced, an inherent dyson product characteristic.  Interestingly even higher priced is dyson's DC22 cann with motorhead for $799 US.  Boasts the renown DDM.  Haven't seen an authoritative industry review yet or may have missed it.  Dyson would have us believe less in the case of DC22 at a higher price is better.  Wonder how that's working out for him and this canister.

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:
Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups. If Dyson were that good you can bet they'd be more than one in that GHI ten/ten list.

vacmanuk wrote:

No, not really. Bias can also be the mother of all f*ck ups.

Hertz wrote:
Eh. no.. GHI have tested quite a few vacs in their time including Dyson. I'm sure they have a balanced fair decision when it comes to household appliances incl. vacuum cleaners. The fact that two bagless vacuum cleaners in that top ten are not Dyson is the MOST surprising.

vacmanuk wrote:

But Dyson was also one, too. Look, after having extensively worked on these DC-14's for a while, I can say with COMPLETE knowledge, confidence, and certainty that they ARE well built, VERY (overall) high quality appliances BESIDES the motors. I swear, if they put a frickin' Lindhaus, Kirby, or some kind of German motor in there or a Lamb motor they would be damn near perfect machines! But they use at least THREE - FOUR different kinds of plastics where they're most suited, and sometimes all on different areas of just ONE PART! Dyson also just doesn't "paint" their machines, they go ALL OUT to make sure each part is that color of plastic through and through - a very nice - albeit mechanically and functionally irrelevant - touch. The seals are all excellent, the cleaning's awesome, filtration's great, and it's very well built. I will SAY that Miele's, ofcourse are built a good 40-50% better, if not just for their motor alone, but Dysons are "pretty durable", too - a quote from a Miele Diamond dealer that DISLIKES Dysons, but admits their quality in their due areas.

Hertz wrote:
In your opinion you think that they are well built.

In my opinion and lengthy experience of Dyson vacuums they are not well built due to call out charges and bits that need fixing. They are not durable either since many models have different bits on them that have no uniform design. One air inspection tube is different to the next for example. They are also noisy and unhealthy. Period. You have your opinion and I'll have mine.

vacmanuk wrote:

When used, even abusively, they stand up to it and keep on running and from reviews I've read, for even 7+ years STRAIGHT w/o ANY tune-ups. So yeah, they're durbale, and I can stand and jump on the BODY standing upright (I'm 190+) pounds, and literally drop it and slam it down onto thin carpet with a pound and they don't break a sweat. That's what I consider a well built machine. They are overall quite durable machines, especially compared to all the chinese crap lately. Very good machines, at least from what I can see and comparing it to a Miele, too. Considering they seem to clean the air better than a Miele w/ a Air Clean filter, they're healthy, and I have allergies. Just be careful when emptying the bin. I'll let this one go (for now, haha) but I'm telling you what I have come to see from my own experiences, choose to believe it or not. You're choice sir, I could care less.

vacmanuk wrote:

Miele TT5000 Cat n Dog 91/100
LG Compressor Allergy Care 90/100
Miele Solution HEPA 5000 89/100
Karcher VC6300 88/100
SEBO K1 Pet 87/100
SEBO D? 86/100
Dyson DC23 Motorhead  86/100
SEBO K3 Airbelt Vulcano 86/100
Bosch Compressor BSG 86/100
Philips Marathon FC9222 83/100

Of note, the prices of the 3 bagless vacuums.  LG is priced at 199 BP, dyson is 299-342 BP, and PM is 180 BP.  All 3 are HEPA.  LG and PM have variable speed motor controls.  Dyson does not.  Is that a big deal?  No, the China sourced $50 HOOVER cann has a variable speed motor control too.  BUT it's a big deal to be the most expensive cann rated, by 2-3 times the price and more, and not have it, IMHO.  BTW, the HOOVER cann also has a cordwinder.  Mine is now 4 years old and still working as good as new except for tool wear.  Tools are chintzy.  Buit who's complaining for $50?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Which also proves that in this case and instance that "premium price" does not mean the best. Also the Dyson DC23 is relatively new against the Sebo K3 Airbelt "old stager" Vulcano which has been on the market in various guises (Sebo just put a paint job) before the DC23's presence.

vacmanuk wrote:

How true.  Caveat emptor.  Buyer beware.  Highest priced does not mean best product.  Despite slick marketing and emotional buying.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

No wonder Orecks so well sometimes.

Hertz wrote:

I paid $150 for my new XL Classic in April 2007.  Still like brand new.  Bought 4 more new and gifted to others who love them.  Worth the price.  If I could find a dozen ORECK's at junk prices I'd buy them too and fix up and gift away.  Haven't yet.  

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:
MM so this is why hospitals still use bagged vacuums? Really Hertz, you must have iron lungs to think that Dysons are healthier. Hospitals and clinics dont have the money generally but somehow they manage to have contract cleaners who have to use bags by law because it is cleaner!

Also, please don't knock all Chinese built things. I recall Dyson ended up making parts and complete vacuums in Asia...

CarmineD wrote:

Then you're not looking hard enough; Oreck's clean maybe half as well as a Dyson, and the filtration is FAR worse - at least on their older models. People are sometimes too mechanically inept or brainless to know how to maintain a Dyson, thus they breakdown. When properly maintained, a Dyson would FLOOR an Oreck. I'm not sure about their new Edge though and even their Platinum Pilots, those look like good machines (for once).

CarmineD wrote:

Oreck, at "junk" prices: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/app/1854312519.html Check it out buddy - that must mean that Oreck is PURE crap. NO question. Your logic is undeniable; *gag* Lemme know when it clicks for you. :D :P

Hertz wrote:

Thank you.  This example illustrates my point that buying junk dysons at junk prices makes you a junk dyson dealer.  

You posted that you paid $30 for your dyson which retails currently for $400 plus with a 5 year warranty.  That's a 92.5 percent devaluation/depreciation from new prices.  The ORECK is $45 [from the site you provided see picture below] and sells for $200 new with a 1-2 year warranty.  That's a 77.5 percent devaluation/depreciation from current new prices.  This basic ORECK XL model with no frills [doesn't have on-board tools like your dyson either] held its value higher and far better than your dyson.  Dah!  Your junk dyson depreciated quicker and much more than the ORECK that you called PURE crap [now that's an oxymoron].  Tell us again please.......what's that you said about dysons at junk prices? 

ORECK budget buyers should shop Estate Sales too for higher end ORECK models at $45-50.  Estate Sale means the ORECK owners died before their ORECK's.  Unlike your dyson dirty dozen.  They died before the owners.  That's called a yard/garage/rummage sale AKA junk sale.  You bought junk dysons at junk prices.  You are a dyson junk dealer.  Congratulations, you have the market all to yourself. 

According to the AICPA* when an asset falls [depreciates] to less than 10 percent of its cost, it is considered scrap [aka junk] value.  

Carmine D.

* American Institute of Certified Public Accountants

Oreck XL model Vacuum Cleaner - $45 (hollywood)

---

Date: 2010-07-20, 7:29PM PDT
Reply to: sale-a4jnm-1854312519@craigslist.org

---

CarmineD wrote:

You still don't get it; it doesn't matter what something is priced at; it still is what it is; a high quality, long lasting Dyson will beat the pants off your half-decent stick broom called an "Oreck" Most Dysons go for 1/2 - 3/4 their retail price EASY! I just happened to find a RARE deal. Live in your delusional world, not much I can do but simply tell you the facts.

Hertz wrote:

Junk/scrap vacuums at less than 10 percent of cost ready for the salvage bin are junk.  China made, dyson, whatever the brand.  You didn't get a rare deal.  You got a rear deal.  Sugarcoat your purchase anyway you like.  They're junk.  It is what it is. 

Most retailers today in the USA are advertising NEW dysons at a minimum of 20 percent off retail prices and have been for quite awhile.  Plus retailers are giving customers who buy new dysons in store savings and buyer incentives like a free dyson handheld and/or free dyson attachment kits.  Where you been all your life.  Watching MTV?  Smell the crap.  See the junk.  Most places pay to have junk hauled to the dump by the pallet loads.  Instead, you paid them to remove it.  Real shrewd deal, alright.  Very rare indeed.  For them.  Not you.  You were flimflammed big time.  Plain and simple truth.

Carmine D.

Indeed.. upon looking upon EBAY UK this afternoon (my British time!) I noticed amongst the job lot of 5 Henry tub vacuums, a job lot of 3 Electrolux bagless uprights, a massive 10 job lot of Dyson DC04s for £150-00. Its been sat on for days and noone is hooking their lines. Why? Not because of the price but because most repairers know that cost effectively the DC04 isn't going to be a big seller due to its associated reliability problems even after repair!

Having done repair myself (I worked in a private shop for 3 years when I studied in London to see me through my course financially) I know that repairers will buy from EBAY for job lots but NOT Dyson models because:

1. Regardless of spare part prices, at trade costs they are more expensive without the VAT added in.
2. Dyson parts and spares usually involve having to buy the repair manuals which in Dyson's case consists of a hugely worded manual rather than single pages per model and you have to be registered by DYSON UK to have the user manual in the first place.
3. Models like DC04 with the expensive ratchet clutch Brush Control are notorious for breaking down even after a repair has been done.
4. Most upright models need specialised tools that allow the motors to be prised apart, not least star crossdrivers and flex neck screwdrivers.
   

Well I made a little video of my Sebo D cylinder last night. Ive never made a video before and finally worked out how to do it.

See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgjzfLj7Uc

vacmanuk wrote:

Cool! I have only one complaint -- I want to see the x-rated version.  One with a really dirty rug.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:
Sorry to disappoint you Venson. I dont have dirty rugs or anything darker than beige in our home lol

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks vacmanuk.  Good video.  V-e-r-y nice vacuum.  Like the LED variable suction dial.  Cordwinder would be a nice plus BUT at over 36 foot for power cord, winder would be weighty.

A comment on your vacuuming of the carpet in particular the speed of your back/forth motions.  I thought you are a tad bit fast.  Is this for video purposes or is that your normal speed?

I know what you thinking: Everybody's a critic............

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
LOL.. well that's the speed of the 2100 watt suction Carmine! Um.. I think its the camera since I was doing the same speed in the kitchen where you can see our old LG washing machine in the distance.
The D has an auto cord rewind as standard, thank god! I don't think I could handle having to lasso up 12 metres of cord. Review now on here about it in worded form and it beats Miele S5 on many points, particularly:

1. Lighter weight to carry/pull along.
2. Lighter tubes and lighter handle
3. Longer hose
4. No hot air facials
5. Boxes of 8 bags compared to Miele's 4 bags.
6. Filter set lasts double the amount of bags.
7. Quieter than Miele's S5.
8. Longer power cord than Miele or anything in the UK market presently.
   

vacmanuk wrote:

Thank you vacmanuk for all the clarifications including the cordwinder.  What are the benefits of the filter under the bag cover housing?  Is this unique to the SEBO D line of canns?  I haven't read your written review, so I apologize if you explained these matters already.  I will read and post any questions/comments after doing so. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
The filter on top of the bag acts the motor filter whilst the one on the rear acts as the main filter to expel clean air into rooms. Both filters are indeed unique to the SEBO D series.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thank you.  I enjoyed reading the review you posted here on the SEBO D2.  Looks like there is a new sheriff in town.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hey, I'm sorry but I'm keeping the Mieles. You're talking to a country boy.  Well maybe not the biggest and best -- they had to thaw me out with intravenously administered hot chocolate halfway through fall hayrides every now and then. But . . .

The pound or two of extra weight doesn't bother me -- it may turn me into George Atlas one day.  The extra weight on the wands lends to a feeling of confidence that there's at least one thing I won't be replacing after the first odd and unfortunate bang or clunk.

I'm also pleased that the complete control of the machine is all handily under thumb on the hose handle.

As for cord length, my biggest problem was the stairs and I solved that with merely a two-and-one-half-foot electrical extension.  Life is great.

The D Series bigger bag size is an excellent idea but I continue to do very well with Miele's.  As for filtration, at the front lines, the bag chambers in both mine remain very clean with the use of high-filtration bags and I'm happy.  Let's both agree that what matters most, after all, is happiness.

Venson

Venson wrote:
You keep your Miele's - you're entitled to it - and so am I. I have three Miele cylinders too, and none of them are the S5000 models because I've often been put off by the lack of long cord. Ive tried the extension mains power cord reel thing - not very practical when other members in the house hold trip over it. Fine if you're on your own. I'd leave mine out all day if I could get away with it. This is why I bought the Flexhose extender for the Miele hoses because of a lack of longer power cord.

Miele vacuums are generally excellent and I have no qualms in recommending either brand to people who ask me although its good and interesting to hear others thoughts on this. In terms of looking for a big vacuum which has lightweight tubes etc AND a long power cord, SEBO's D now fits my needs perfectly. Oh and my old Miele S571 has had TWO replacement extension pipes since the original ones were fantastic for the first five years until the highest setting I kept putting the tubes into started to become wonky. The original tube then started to get stiffer with age and even with WD40 sprayed, the button rendered itself useless. A call to Miele UK meant free extension tubes which was nice of them at the time. Ive never experienced similar with Sebo tubes though and are two inches shorter when fully extended.

Im led to believe that the D series has just landed in the U.S but it may take some time for it to appear on the Sebo U.S website

vacmanuk wrote:

When I saw the D4 model with power nozzle I felt pretty sure that model at least was meant to come our way.  However, I do have to make one amendment on my thought. It indeed may take time as Sebo dealers will have to move stock they already have on hand to make the acquisition of new models profitable.  My local Miele dealer is claiming the same.

Venson

A thought crossed my mind earlier this evening. Upon looking up SEBO in the U.S, the K3 Vulcano you guys have has a 1250 watt motor. There may well be a possibility that the new D series will also have this motor to comply with the U.S voltage.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hey vacmanuk,

How are you?  Quick question -- are you sure that the electrical draw is just the motor and not the combined draw by way of the vacuum and the power nozzle?  We have lots of inaccurate advertising here and few do little to make specifics clear when looking to sell.  The claim of a 1200 watt draw regarding a canister vac with P/N can often mean 1,000 watts or slightly under for the canister and about 200 for the power nozzle.  This would also apply to clean-air uprights with two-motor systems. 

However, I did buy and try out the 1200 watt straight suction Black & Decker VN1400P a couple of years ago.  I don't see it on the B&D website any longer but I think it's still up for sale.  The suction was wonderful but it used a pleated filter plus and other bright ideas were bungled.

Venson

I answered my own question.  Per the Sebo America website, the Airbelt K motor uses 1,250 watts and the ET-1 power nozzle draws 175 watts for total 1,425 watt draw.

Venson

Venson wrote:
Mes well Venson thanks for asking - hope you are well too et al!  Glad you managed to check it out yourself!

Right oh. SEBO's D is now available from http://www.achooallergy.com/sebo-airbelt-d4-canister-vacuum-cleaner.asp

There is also a review on there and the summary is pretty much the same as my thoughts:

"...As far as SEBO vacuum cleaners go, the price of the Airbelt D4 Premium is at the very upper end. But like top-of-the line vacuum cleaners of other manufacturers, these vacuums tend to far outlast cheaper vacuums while providing better filtration and more value added features. So while the initial cost may be high, when factoring in the length of service the SEBO D4 will provide, it is a little easier to justify. While I have to admit that I personally prefer upright vacuums over canisters, the SEBO Airbelt is likely the best SEBO that I have tested. The cleaning and edging was superior while the mobility and weight made the unit easy to move from surface to surface. Ease of use was a big bonus (that auto rewind is always something I miss while using an upright), and the look is, well, distinctive. With pricing being my largest complaint, for the money, this vacuum is in line with the high-end, value rich models offered by other top vacuum manufacturers..."

This company are stocking the flagship range although prices are fairly expensive from $989-00 to $1,089-00 and this company seem to only be stocking the D4 Premium European model under different colours and a choice of electronically powered floor head sizes. Yet to find the basic versions without the power controls on the handle, but I'm sure they will eventually be sold in the U.S

vacmanuk wrote:

Enjoyed your review posted here.  The differences in the motor watts here [US] and there [Europe} make the SEBO models hard to compare for us and UK.  Still no D series as yet on this side of the pond.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I thought the allergy club website I posted is in the U.S?

vacmanuk wrote:

The allergy club is based in Atlanta, Georgia.  Still no D series on the SEBO USA website.  The Achoo Allergy club SEBO D4 series is 1800 motor watts. I opine that SEBO is making and marketing this D4 for limited retailers in the USA like Achoo Alergy Club.  Don't know this for sure.  I note too from the web site that the GSA approves SEBO for vacuums for Federal government purchases.

Carmine D. 

Correction: USA D4 motor on the achoo web page is 1200 watts.

It will take some time for the D series to appear on SEBO's USA site, Carmine. SEBO UK confirmed that the SEBO D had already been sent to the U.S to a number of private dealers before it is put on the website "nationally" on the official U.S website. I guess its all about money. It wont be long though I imagine they will have to make a new video for it as well.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks vacmanuk. 

Carmine D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmw-rFC2Ws


This is a user video from a UK member of You Tube who has bought the new D4 Premium. Quite a nice video and the LED dial has a delightful light display going on.

vacmanuk wrote:

Impressive vacuum and demo.  Thank you vacmanuk.  Demo'er did a fine job showing the machine and its features.  Would be nice if he did the same for the power head and brush roll.  I know what you're thinking:  Everbody is a critic......

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I think that may well come eventually. It's certainly not my posting or my machine - I'm not keen any kind of cylinder vac with a power head - I always find that kind of concept too heavy to consider.

Hey Guys, New to Abby's Guide. I was looking around for this vacuum since your brought it up and found this website which really explains this machine extremely well. The best description I have found on it so far.

http://www.mrvacandmrssew.com/vacuum-cleaners/brand/sebo/Canisters.aspx

They have both the red and the black one up. Now I just have to decide whether I should spend for this machine or the Miele.

KBroMan wrote:
Hi KBroMan - welcome to the forum - not that I'm any moderator but I own the D2 Total - european spec - and wrote the review here.

Miele S5 is an excellent all round vacuum. I wanted one for years UNTIL I realised how small the amount of cable on board is and didn't feel obliged to have to spend a lot of money for a bit more cable when my old S381 could handle a small to medium home. The D series is great in that respect - it has almost twice the amount of cable on offer and the model choices are pretty much easy to work out per floor head choice. Ask away if you need to know more.

Ok I bought one and added a review for you to look at. I have two top of the line Miele's and I have to say this vacuum is going to give Miele a run for their money. It is the same upper price end as a Miele so the price will not be a factor in choosing a Miele or a Sebo. The length of the cord is amazing. Anyone with a large home would really appreciate this. I have a one story two bedroom condo and can plug it in the hallway and never have to replug, even when climbing a ladder to clean the vaulted ceilings and ledges that are around my rooms. Now in order to not have to lift the Sebo up the ladder, I purchased the add on 9 1/2 ft stretch hose. It worked great and it attaches to the end of the electric hose instead of having to change the electric hose on a Miele for a longer non electric hose. The bags on this vacuum are huge and extremely easy to change. Same kind of bag change indicator as a Miele. The motor filter serves as the bag compartment seal, so each time its changed you get a new seal around your bag compartment. Great idea. The D4 is not on the Sebo website or I would have bought directly from them, not that I was disappointed with Achoo Allergy. I bought the bags, filters and hose from MrvacMrsSew another great website. Sebo has a very well done website with FAQ's such as what to do if you need service. If you have a dealer in your area and know who they are, Sebo would like you to tell them and they will make the calls for your service. If there is no dealer, you will get a return authorization number and have to send it to Colorado for service. They usually repair the vacuum the same day they receive it. The only down time you would have is shipping to and from Colorado.

If you haven't visited the Sebo Website recently and are interested in learning more about Sebo products, they have short videos on how to put your machine together, how to change the bags and filters, how to use the attachments, etc.....

One other thing that is a great asset is the ability to change or clean the brush roll with no tools needed. This would be great for people with different carpet styles that may require a delicate brush for one carpet and a stiff brush roll for another carpet. These brush rolls run around $20 each and are available on their website. One of their videos was changing the brush roll. 30 seconds tops.

Enough said...except that I have always been an Electrolux die hard fan and have been disappointed in my last two purchases. The Lux Guardian Ultra from an Aerus Dealer and a Lux Legacy NIB purchased from an Ebay seller. Aerus does not seem to have the same quality controls in place as the old Electrolux had. Also I don't think they do much with research and development. I was expecting great things when I purchased the Lux Guardian Ultra. What I got was a machine so powerfull that it tore the inner lining from the outer lining of the filter bags, which Aerus assured me they were fixing, a very loud machine, and a suction control that was absolutely useless. You cannot use the sidekick unless you have a half full bag or it will stall out......for the price of the machine, it needs a variable suction control similar to the Sebo D4 and/or the Miele vacuums. The middle of the line Lux Legacy is quieter with a piece of muffler stuck between the after filter and the blower port, that supposedly doesn't decrease airflow....The flaw I see in it is that it has an air leak coming from inside the carrying handle. This may or may not be a problem depending on whether the air has been filtered by the after filter first. I cannot take credit for figuring this out, I actually pm'd a couple of people on this forum for help....I also wrote Aerus and expressed my concerns. They assured me they take concerns very seriously and my email would be turned over to their engineers for review. Hope they care enough to listen. If they don't come up to par with Miele and Sebo, I don't know what the future will hold for them and that would be a very sad day for me......

Sincerely,

Bud Mattingly

budmattingly wrote:

Thanks Bud.  Excellent feature on the brush roll options.  Like getting 2 vacuums for the price of an additional $20.  Smart thinking and doing by SEBO.  IMMER BESSER may have gotten bested.

Carmine D.

Hey Bud, I read your review already and was very impressed with it. The D4 Premium is already on You Tube by a UK buyer (not me.) Whilst I trialled the D4 I didn't like the associated weight of the tubing and then the ET-1 floor head. Been there before with my own older K3 Premium model. However the D4 is well made and designed as you say like all of the D series. I don't think the Miele S5 is any lesser than its design though - the difference is that now, instead of using a canister with a long cord and no way of automatically retracting it, you can now have it with the D series. The U.S website has also just been updated with tons of videos and well worth looking out for. However it will take them some time for the D vacuum to be added to that site.  I'm pretty sure in time Miele will respond with the same amount of cord in a bigger cylinder vacuum. There's also a couple of videos from www.sebo.de with the Felix (white computer generated) but gives buyers the general idea.

I would be cautious about SEBO at the moment. Some shake ups in the company and their Multi-Level-Marketing program didn't seem to pan out very well. I have no documented proof of anything but people in the business are talking and their account people are bailing out or being let go. Anyone with more concrete information please post.

Lucky1 wrote:

For 10 consecutive years German electronics' retailers voted SEBO number one for a series of assessment criteria that includes among others such measures as product quality, sales, service and parts availability, reaction and resolution to customer complaints etc. etc.  It has been 4 years since SEBO received the award from the German retailers.  Too long perhaps by SEBO standards.  I suspect but don't know for sure that this may be at the root to the latest management and executive shake ups. 

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:
I think it is rather dangerous to speculate about your caution unless you have hard evidence where a company is concerned. There are no indications that SEBO are going to go anywhere; the U.S market has been good for SEBO through Windsor Industries and commercial field. Perhaps the U.S management are concerned about sellers in the U.S that are not registered with SEBO U.S that can invalidate warranties. The U.S seems to get a better guarantee cover with 5 years and an additional 3 years added with low cost charges. In the UK the story is different where warranties and guarantees are concerned. If a buyer chooses to buy a second hand SEBO from EBAY, the full 5 year guarantee is not covered and in most cases if the machine has already been registered the 5 years guarantee will not additionally cover. Most owners don't register their SEBO for the guarantee as their reliability is second to none but if you try to register a second hand machine, SEBO UK usually only register the machine for a year. It is a possibility that people in the business and their account are being let go - but that has nothing to do with the actual company, but rather the amount of money that private companies are buying from SEBO. After all if the machines aren't selling it wouldn't be cost effective to buy in a new range from a private dealer's point of view.

Having worked in similar work line ups, if the targets are not being met then there may be a push to bail out.

I have had two experiences dealing with Sebo directly. Once 10 or so years ago and once for my D4. The first dealing was when I bought an Air-Storm vacuum with a Sebo power nozzle. The nozzle with the replaceable brush strip. I could not get one from Schoettler Enterprises, so I called Sebo direct. I explained my situation to whoever answered the phone and was transfered to a gentleman who listened to my story and told me that he was familiar with the power nozzle that Schoettler Enterprises used on their vacuums. He sold me a brush strip directly from Sebo and sent it to me within a few days. I think about that experience from time to time and it just amazes me that someone actually took the time to listen and get me the correct brush strip for my vacuum. I don't remember the price of the brush strip, but it was not expensive.

The second experience with Sebo was buying my D4. I ordered it from Achoo Allergy over a weekend and while I received an email thanking me for my purchase, I never received a tracking number. Then since I spent $900 plus on a vacuum from a website I had never dealt with, I started getting worried. The gentleman at Achoo Allergy promised to get the tracking number for me, but did not get it in a timely fashion. His excuse was they were out of stock and ordered directly from Sebo. Their website said they were in stock when I bought it. Anyway I decided to write Sebo customer service and make sure I was dealing with a legitimate Sebo Dealer and could they give me a tracking number. Other than my name and address information, I had nothing else to give them. I really did not expect to get a reply back with the little information I gave them. Well I received the Sebo a few days after that so the the tracking number was not important. The point to this story is this, I did get a reply from Sebo customer service with the assurance that I was dealing with a legitimate internet dealer and that I should have received my Sebo by now and if not to please call them. They furnished the tracking number as well. I will bet if I had tried that with another large vacuum manufacturer, I would still be waiting for a reply....

I think Sebo is here to stay and with their excellent website and customer service, they should be a very formadable player in the world of vacuums. I also agree that german engineering for vacuums is very impressive.

Bud Mattingly

Having just conversed with the MD of SEBO UK, the U.S have a new dealer and sales system in place which is probably the cause of the speculation. More details may follow.

CarmineD wrote:

Hello Carmine

Must agree...the germans know their stuff. Have worked on a few Sebos and the quality is excellent on the ones ive seen and used at  the shop. Their customer service

and parts dept are top notch....  many could learn from them.

turtle

For now, the D4 is rare around the Portland OR area. Our major vac chain, STARKS VACUUM, does not stock them because (supposedly) SEBO vacs are at present having trouble meeting UL specifications. Starks does not carry any Lindhaus vacs either, claiming parts are difficult to get. At present, I do not know of any other chain here carrying the D4 vacuum.

vacomatic wrote:

I don't believe SEBO will ever be more than a niche seller in the US market.  And ever so slight.  Despite the quality and high visibility of of famed and reputable buyers and users. Same is true of Lindhaus.  In part I believe the result of the huge influence of big box retailers and vacuum  brands which cater to their whims with disposable inexpensive vacuum products.  Rather than repair, just replace every few years with new.  Keeps the wheels of the big box retail economy humming.  ORECK is trying, IMHO, with its launch into BB retailers to do both markets.  Disposable and repair venue.  With its prices and products and net work of ORECK stores for repairs and parts, it just may very well succeed where others have not.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I agree. Even here in New York where you'd expect to find everything not a lot of vacuum specialists carry Sebo or Lindhaus. Most of the vac shops are pushing Riccar, Simplicity and Miele. Were I to have bought a Sebo I'd find myself making a trek into Manhattan most likely to get bags quickly. I'd been eying the C series canister for a long time but easy access to consumables was an issue that influenced me to pass on buying.

Venson

Doesn't SEBO US have a store though online? If I can't get to a stockist I usually order online or consider EBAY. The C series is a good canister vacuum but it is similar to the Miele S500 series on weight alone. It also lacks the longer cord that the new D series has.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi,

Yes, I'm sure. However I don't always buy in advance and am prone to just run out to a shop to get bags. Access is not just a problem with foreign vacuums. Depending upon where you live, consumables for niche brands like Filter Queen, defunct AirWay, TriStar and even Kirby may require some looking around or travel to get if you can't or don't desire to shop online. Some shops may have substitutes but that may prove an issue for some.

I grew up in a rural area and remember people mailing away for even Electrolux disposable bags. Of course, back then there was no internet and some vac makers included a fresh order form in every shipment.

Venson

Venson wrote:
I grew up in a similar rural area and back now to the same place for cheaper living costs than the cities. None of the shops that sell vacuum consumables have the Miele or SEBO products I need. The "latest" Miele consumable they have are the brown paper bags for the 1970's model! That's as far as "modern" gets in the wee towns of Scotland! There's even a shop that is selling a brand new DeStijl Dyson DC01 for £300!! No one has touched it/bought it, which is probably why every year, it just continues to sit in the shop window looking very much like a dummy demo model when in actual fact it's the real thing.

The D4 was interesting in that it was the first SEBO I've seen using filterette bags, and a large one at that. 
Every SEBO I've used has trouble handling fine dust (removing/tapping sides/reinserting the paper bags restores most of the suction).
Also, their fit/finish was at times a little haphazard (their hoses leaked air, etc.).

USA Recession probably didn't help either Sebo or Lindhaus.  Miele just seems to keep rolling along, though.

vacomatic wrote:

True and false.  MIELE is humming.  WIll match and better previous year sales.  SEBO and LINDHAUS will be happy to match.  Others, primarily the big box sellers in the USA, especially high price sellers are hurting.  Several factors add to the heartache.  Down USA housing market which typically is in good times a boost for new vacuum sales.  High unemployment.  Worse in 40 years.  High rate of foreclosures and mortgage arrears.  Any one of these is a deal breakwer for new vacuum sales.  Put them together and they spell disaster for new vacuum sales.  Good for repairs and parts.  Good for sales of low-middlin price vacuums in big box stores.  Bad for high priced big box vacuum sales.

Carmine D.

vacomatic wrote:

I'm all for new blood in the vacuum market but by comparison, Miele is way ahead in the import market. It's had its name out there on the U.S. market for many years and developed and still carries public belief in its level of quality for all appliances it makes. Also, its employed lots and lots of advertising to keep us aware that its here.

Sebo and Lindhaus are moreso brands that the individual consumer "discovers" after happening into independent vac shops that carry them thus having to lean on word of mouth from satisfied owners and sellers to lift public awareness.

"Buy-ahead" type consumers (who can afford Miele goods) looking for vacuums that will make the long run usually give Miele consideration.

I'd think both Sebo and Lindhaus might be able to bring their name up a few rungs on the ladder if they advertised independently instead of relying on mention by way of vendor rosters. However, considering what national advertising campaigns must cost now that may not be a practical path for either to pursue. Yet manufacturers of way cheaper vacuums, Shark for one, don't seem to mind.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

The good thing in bad economic times is that more American vacuum consumers frequent the indies for parts and repairs rather than buying new and throwing away.  More foot traffic in the indies.  More opportunities for the vacuum industry pros/store owners and operators to show off MIELE, SEBO and Lindhaus brands and models.  More pitches, more sales.  And brand loyal customers for life. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Things are getting a little scary in New York . . . .

I was approached by a woman returning a vacuum she'd just bought. This woman wanted absolutely nothing to do with upright vacs or canisters with PNs or even turbo-tools.

The lady had a bit of an accent so it took a moment or two of back and forth to get the gist of what she meant but it was easy to finally sort out. She owned expensive heirloom-quality silk and wool carpets. No pets, no kids, no heavy traffic, "Go to your local vacuum shop and ask for a good straight-suction canister," I said. Problem solved? No. It turned out she'd no knowledge of where her local vac sales and repair shop might be. I have met several other persons who are absolutely unaware of where a nearby independent vac shop may be. Instead, they run to a department store for solutions. A place where solutions are far less likely to be found other than buying another vacuum. I cannot say whether this is an indicator of the decline in New York vac shops but I do wonder.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Here too in Las Vegas.  Must be contagious.  Today, I bought a SEARS Kenmore upright play vacuum for one of the grands.  $24.99   When I paid for it at the cashier register, the saleslady, a very lovely lady and a store manager, asked me if I would like to purchase a one year product replacement warranty.  After I stopped and thought about what she asked, due to my bad hearing, I said to her: You're kidding me aren't you?  She said No.  Realizing she was serious, I asked how much.  She said $2.99.  Of course, I declined. 

Carmine D.

Just picked up a SEBO D4 Premium (Onyx) after much thought, should be here in a week. Also picked up an Airbelt Cover #6047AM/01 (Dark Gray) to replace the original Airbelt Cover #6047AM/07 (Black/Silver) and an ET-2 #9958AM (Onyx) power head. I simply could not stand the pattern on the original bumper cover and have wide open expanses of carpet and engineered wood flooring. Will complement a Ladybug TEKNO 2350 and replaces a Dyson DC28 Animal (of which I have two). Will be comparing the D4 to a Miele Polaris (parquet vs. parquet). I also have a DC14 Animal from six years ago which sees virtually no use. Was seriously considering the Miele Capricorn, but the D4 won out by virtue of it being a newly released model. Only wished the SEBO filter bags were equipped with a spring-loaded seal ala Miele. Concerned that the gloss finish of the power brushes will show wear marks faster than if the finish were matte (Ladybug accessories look virtually brand new through extended use due in large part to their matte finish). What prompted me to look towards a new vac addition was the fact that both of my DC28 Animal units would light up Sharp KC-860U dust sensors while vacuuming. The sensor of a Blueair 650E would also note air quality degradation when a DC28 was in use nearby. This was simply unacceptable for me. Will see how the D4 fares against the four Plasmacluster and two Blueair sensor-equipped units I have scattered throughout the house and report back...

adamlau wrote:
One can often spot a collector from a mile off : ) As the owner of the D2 Total, the body on mine has sustained a few scratches already but it is still quite shiny. What a waste of money though just because you don't like the aesethetic value of the bumper - don't forget regardless of the design that the cleaner air is diffused out the sides from the Air Belt compared to the hot facial you get with a Miele. You'll find changing the bags on the SEBO easier - they simply need to be fitted over a spring and then the door down to lock and the bags have caps already on them which only means a matter of bending over and manually sealing them. If you can't wait to see what the D4 is like check out You Tube - you'll see from the following video that the manual suction control dial lights up faster as soon as the variable suction through the handle buttons is increased. Frankly I think that is a total waste of LEDs when it could have been put to better use on the floor heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXql1QIFYvo

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmw-rFC2Ws

First impressions... The SEBO D4 Premium was shipped with Airbelt Cover #6047AM/01 (Dark Gray), did need to replace it for our desired aesthetic. Unit was received direct from SEBO America as brand-new with light swirls and scratches along the body and the ET-1 power head. It goes without saying that I would have much preferred a unit in pristine shape. A single, unused filter bag was pre-installed. Accessories, filters, and hose appeared to have been unused as well. Aside from being more stable when parked, the ET-2 does a better job on smooth, level floors, brush roll turned off on both, setting 1 of 4. Whereas the ET-1 failed to pick up stray ants with consistency, the ET-2 had no issues. We attributes this to the additional weight of the ET-2, which keeps the power head down to the floor. Would also have preferred a setting below 1 in order deep clean low-pile, commercial berber loop. D4 Premium as an article of furniture, accessories as mild living room accents...

The standard Parquet Brush #6391DA? It does a better job than the power heads for both wood and porcelain tile flooring. Overall, we found the parquet tool to be a bit lightweight, brush lift and loss of suction was a common complaint from household members. Perhaps the Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG with its additional footing and weight might help in this regard. In terms of raw suction and volume flow, the D4 falls short and simply cannot compare to the monster ability of the Dyson DC28 Animal. Relatively small diameter hose end (approximately 1-7/8" OD) of the D4 makes it slightly more tedious to perform tasks such as vacuuming the head after a good shearing. Changing accessories is straightforward, simple and fast. Bag changes are even faster. Cap, angle, lift and dispose. Align, drop in, pull back, done. Rotation of the hose end to canister neck transition not as fluid as I had expected. This tends to jostle the canister about when vacuuming aggressively, ball bearings would have been welcome. One workaround is to snap adjust the hose accordingly using the the off hand. This essentially turns aggressive vacuuming with the D4 into a two-handed affair. Had considered the light ring on the canister to be a gimmick at first, found its positive feedback to be rather useful over time. Noise quality (subjective) is very good. Canister does emit a high-pitched whine, though not quite as high as a Miele Polaris on max, or a Dyson DC28 Animal. Coupled with a power head, the D4 on max is not exactly silent.

Additional observations...Versus the Miele Polaris (parquet vs. parquet), we may prefer the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush to the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA as the SBB300 is wider and deeper with a reduced tendency to lift. From the hose end alone sans attachment and with news bags installed in both units, the Polaris felt as if it had greater static suction. Additional gripe with the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA: Poor edge cleaning, brush strips are visibly recessed from the housing. This is less pronounced with the SBB300. One workaround is to tilt and run the front edge of the brush along requisite edges as the rubber wheels of the tool prevent quality edge suction. Bottom line: The Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush appears to be superior for wide expanses of wood/grouted tile flooring whereas the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA is more nimble in getting around those ever present nooks and crannies (a boon for cluttered floors) and was preferred over its Miele counterpart for its handiness over an array of tabletops, sills and ledges.

Gripe with the ET-1/ET-2: Lack of replaceable side bumpers. Certainly one could replace the bearing block on the left, but what of the other side? What of the chassis itself? Two days of testing and hard use across two large homes and the power heads are exhibiting signs of wear along both sides of the chassis. A tool which costs 1K ought to have additional means and measures with which to keep it looking as if it cost 1K. The crevice tool can only do so much along. I cannot say enough about the Airbelt Cover as it has proved itself worthy of praise every single time we vacuumed. As an aside, we are not as enamored of the Miele FJM 7291640 filter bag as we were in the past due to the hinges preventing a complete cap seal. Also, where is the SEBO attachments trolley? A mini push cart replete with attachment points would most certainly be welcome from the standpoint of owners with multiple tools for multiple floor and surface types...

More observations...Would have appreciated grooves along the side of the canister with support for storing additional brushes e.g. Hand-held Turbo Brush #6179DA and Radiator Brush #1496DG. Support for parking power heads on the canister (only non-powered floor tools can be accomodated). A more elegant method to disconnect the hose from the handle. Despite its shortcomings, I remain a fan of the D4. Will be going head-to-head with a new Miele Capricorn next week. ET-2 versus the vaunted SEB236 on newly installed carpet. Not necessarily in terms of cleaning power, but rather in terms of features, general ergonomics, relative drawbacks and ease of use.

adamlau wrote:
A lot of good points but you expect too much - SEBO aren't interested in making their vacuums luxurious looking - their plastics are better made than Miele in most cases and even the roughest machine in the SEBO range after years of abuse will continue to keep working - my 15 year old X1 Automatic can attest to that - which is now working in the hands of a friend and when I sold it on, it went to a new appreciative owner who didn't care what the machine looked like - and I wasn't going to spend more money on getting a new bin door just because the old one was scratched, or similarly a new hood because the old one had scratches at the side.

I have a Miele Parquet brush tool and a SEBO Parquet deluxe - both brush strips can be removed on both the Miele and SEBO items but the Sebo brush tool is far easier to move from the handle with pipes added than the stiffer plastic on the Miele floor tool - not ideal for getting around table legs on stone floors either when the SEBO neck is smoother and a lot easier to turn around corners.

I do however realise that if you are in the U.S or Canada, the cost prices for SEBO and MIELE are fairly expensive and in this respect you may feel obliged to comment on your expectations.. In the UK the story is slightly different - a D4 Premium costs brand new £398-64 equivalent to $593-87. Also parts like front bumper that you speak of can be obtained from SEBO as well as the side locks - but again, the company expect machines to be abused - that is what they make after all compared to Miele being a larger - and much wider company in terms of household appliances, even though my S5 canister managed to sustain paint scrapes on the handle and back of the machine - in less than 2 weeks of being used. I don't see that being a complaint personally. I'd have more of a problem if the motor or tools snapped - which has seldom happened to me with a Miele, although not unheard of with other tool holder problems I've had with their S2.

The ET1/2 have no difference in weight distribution on surfaces- all you're seeing is a bigger floor head/brush roll barrel which may look to the eye as if pile is getting a deeper clean. Obviously the bigger floor head is heavier due to the bigger roller brushes added.  In both cases the manual dial height adjustment isn't changed - if it was the case that the bigger floor head gave a heavier and deeper clean, you can be sure that SEBO would have offered another height setting on the floor head. SEBO are first and foremost an engineering company who think about the versatile uses of their products rather than giving everything a smooth, organic finish- another reason to why you won't find silver inserts compared to Miele.

Not sure what you mean about the filter bag on the SEBO. There's a cap automatically fitted which you simply swing over come the time to empty - or are you looking for an automatic seal same as the one that had to be redesigned on the Miele dust bags?

I have no idea of why you would want an "attachments trolley." The D4 was made to accomodate the electric floor head and offer owners the choice of using traditional non-electric smaller tools compared to the electric head. The whole IDEA of the D series was to create a replacement model to the C series, as well as remaining lightweight. This is mirrored in the parts, floor heads, tubing and tooling. Adding a recess on the body to accomodate the mini turbo brush could well be an idea SEBO may make in the future - There's certainly space where the bin door is to accomodate something like that - but then I fear the cost price would be higher as well as the bin door having to be made thicker, heavier as a result to accomodate the turbo tool in the first place and then to compensate the added weight with extra springs so that door doesn't crush under pressure. You can buy a material cloth bag to hang up or carry with you to put extra tools in - it may not be available to buy in the U.S but its certainly available in the U.K and doesn't cost much. I use two - one to carry the bags for my X, D, K and Felix machines and the other bag to carry tools in.

Lastly - and this is a factor that I've always stood by - no matter what companies tell you, canister vacuums that have an electric embedded hose with an electronic floor head is always going to be heavy and slightly bulkier to use than the same machines without electronics fitted. I've never tried the D4 Premium because it does look bulky and I know I'd feel compromised to use the electrified hose in the same way I feel compromised with my own smaller K3 Premium. This is a reason to why UK buyers aren't taken in by canisters with the electric head. Although it is common place in the U.S, Europe still stands by suction only heads or air driven turbo brushes - because by and large, if buyers want deep clean, they'll buy uprights.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have noted the same. As an aside, I have also noted that the Miele Capricorn casters are much for fluid than those found on the SEBO D4 Premium.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have experienced quite the opposite when comparing the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush vs. the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA. The action of the SBB300 swivel head is far smoother and much easier to manipulate than that of the #6391DA. This may not be the case with the SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG. Regardless, we noted that hair would tend to accumulate within the SBB300 and attributed such occurrences to the swivel design of the brush with its raised lip and potential snag points along the interior wall.

vacmanuk wrote:
I suppose our expectations for a 1K unit should be re-evaluated for one which actually sits in the 600 price range. Good point.

vacmanuk wrote:
Agreed. Though while the left and right bearing blocks can be replaced, the left block sits flush with the power head chassis. It is the marring of the chassis body and the ease with which it is scratched which concerns us. Be that as it may, the concern is minor though genuine if retaining factory aesthetics for an extended period of time is desired.

vacmanuk wrote:
See my previous comments regarding the pickup of ants. I should clarify that my comments on keeping the brush roll down is primarily directed towards an aggressive draw where the ET-1 has a tendency to lift off the floor surface. This issue is also evident in the Airbelt K demonstration videos on the SEBO America website. One workaround is to extend the telescopic handle a bit in order to retain a proper horizontal vacuuming plane.

vacmanuk wrote:
Excuse that random thought. What I meant to say was that I better appreciate how SEBO has approached the issue with the attached cap and how the Miele solution was not as effective as I had presumed. We noticed a layer of fine dust across the cap of every new Miele FMJ 7291640 filter bag after use and testing and attributed the cause to the poor seal at the hinge point pf the cap.

vacmanuk wrote:
A factory integrated look and feel of a complete and professional solution is what I am after. A system to be stored out in the open, accessories at the ready to tackle the chore of multiple surfaces. Among linear feet upon square feet of granite countertops and stainless appliances, our Ladybug TEKNO 2350 trolley accomplishes exactly that as it serves as the centerpiece appliance in the kitchen.

vacmanuk wrote:

We may be in the minority, but we feel a manually adjustable power head ought to give a clean as deep as uprights which feature automatically adjustable brush rolls. With the understanding that greater bristle and possibly carpet wear is incurred, we always set the brush head to 1 for all carpet types as this helps to offset the lower brush roll RPMs of power heads. Area rugs and mats are the only exception. We may decide to migrate to the more powerful ET-C to further close the perceived gap between uprights and canisters with power heads.

adamlau wrote:
You wouldn't get that with SEBO's D series. It is after all a domestic setting vacuum cleaner - not a commercial one. I'm sure in time SEBO could project a commercial based series based on their cylinder/canisters but so far they haven't stepped forward with that. I suppose the fact that Karcher in Germany is a neighbouring company that have their vacuum cleaners, which have used SEBO designs in the past - they would probably supply a trolley since their vacuums are built for rougher situations. The SEBO C series in particular would make a good commercially based vacuum, having the tools on the top as opposed to the back end on the D series. However, plainly speaking, one doesn't tend to get a trolley for domestic households. Maybe they have that in the U.S but an attachment trolley kind of adds complications to the design of the vacuum particularly in light of the facts that I've laid already that SEBO's main intent was to create a larger bagged cylinder vacuum on the market with lightweight attachments/ features.

So for example, in the UK especially, the commercial canister of choice is our happy smiling Numatic Henry. Here's what he looks like (there's even a female version in pink, which has been popular with lady buyers) in commercial mode - the wheels at the back are slightly bigger and he has a bigger bumper low down: The next version is the UK market domestic model which has bigger wheels, put plastic and rubber coated, slightly larger, fit flush but lacks the low bumper. Weight wise the commercial version weighs 9kg, the domestic version weighs 8kg and the trolley with Henry underneath is around 20kg. Now, put that into perspective - what would you rather have - heavy trolley with vacuum permanently bolted (carrying it up stairs would be a nightmare!) or the lightweight design as originally intended?









On the K series I prefer the lighter standard Straight T bar parquet brush and that's because the K series as you may know, is a lightweight baby vac. This, again is because we Brits - and most of Europe - prefer lighter canister vacuums with just as light attachments on the other end. On the other hand, for cleaning our marble floors I find the Deluxe brush tool just as effective, especially on the end of the Felix upright or the D series. I don't tend to use the Parquet Deluxe a lot when I use the Felix - just by turning off the brush bar on the ET-1 ensures a quick and rapid clean once the suction is increased.

When it comes to cleaning carpeted stairs, before I purchased the D2 Total, I was used to using the 1.8 metre hose on the K1 Premium - I have an older 1800 watt model compared to the 2100 watt model now on the UK market and the improved model also has a bigger/longer hose at 2.1 metres. When it comes to tackling stairs however, I used the existing hose from the K1 Premium and the X series extendable 3 metre hose tagged onto the handle piece. Then for carpeting stairs I always use the mini turbo brush or crevice tool. And to store all the attachments I carry the cloth bag with me if I know that I'm going to do a big cleaning session.

SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA (Wessel-Werke D 300) vs. SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG...Initial impressions favor the #7200DG by a large margin. The wheels of the #6391DA would dislodge from their well tracks from time to time, the wider and partially shrouded wheels of the #7200DG prevent such annoyances. Additional advantages of the #7200DG over the #6391DA include softer bristles set within a spring loaded mechanism to provide for some degree of self-leveling across hard surfaces and a fully articulated swivel neck which virtually eliminates brush lift. Brush strip release tab for ease of maintenance. Lower brush profile of the #7200DG is more effective in repelling the accumulation of hair and debris within the bristles (reduced tendency for the bristle ends to splay). Superior edging. Brush strips are placed closer to the edges, particularly the rear strip. This is noticeable in and around corners. Greater bristle surface area, rear brush funneling action and a narrower debris channel which focuses suction all appear to provide for greater cleaning action. And unlike the #6391DA, the side wheels do not interfere with tool mobility as they are located rearwards of the brushes themselves.

Aside from our own personal experience, we also examined a number of #7200DG brushes set out as floor samples at our local retailer. Drawbacks of the #7200DG? Not nearly as lightweight, nimble, or agile as the #6391DA for use as a multi-surface duster. Though advertised as dark grey, the plastic shade of the tool is closer to that of middle gray. As such, it does not match the existing set of onboard accessories as well as the darker shade of grey found on the #6391DA. Screened imprints are prone to marring leading to the potential loss of aesthetic appeal. Not as effective with larger debris. The lower brush profile of the #7200D lends itself to pushing such items around. Workaround is a quick lift and drop. A flick of the wrist allows the #6391DA to engulf such particles with greater ease. The #7200DG cannot be parked upright. Where we had once envisioned using only one of the two brushes exclusively, we now see that the two are complementary. Both have their place in our home of engineered wood, marble, granite and porcelain tile flooring.

It was disappointing that SEBO America failed to offer the D4 Premium package with an ET-2. And now that we have had the opportunity to pit the two parquet offerings against one another, it is an even greater disappointment that the #7200DG was not included over the #6391DA. D4 Premium? Not quite. Sans ET-2 and #7200DG, the D4 Premium set is more akin to a D4 Deluxe.

The bristles on the standard brush however are longer than the Deluxe version. I take your point about the different brush heads. Lightweight is important to me though - one of the reasons to why I prefer cylinder vacuums over the upright types.

Updated observations...Versus the Miele Capricorn (parquet vs. parquet), we prefer the SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG to the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush. While the #7200DG is not nearly as spry and mobile as the SBB300, it does a much better job of picking up heavier particulates. Our testbed of debris included cut strands of 12 AWG wire and small pebbles of varying weights. Construction debris of such nature is the norm in our home and not the exception. YMMV, of course. The failure of the SB300 to match the #7200DG in pickup is likely attributed (at least in part) to the relatively deep and wide grooves of the SB300 brush strips. These open cutouts are sized to where the partial vacuum state at the head of the tool is reduced and volume flow is lessened. Larger, heavier debris is engulfed, but not picked up. Compounding this loss is the greater channel area between the front and rear brushes. The #7200DG has a much narrower debris channel which serves to better focus suction towards the nozzle opening. Bottom line is that the #7200DG succeeded with heavier particulates where the SB300 would often fail outright.

The dearth of media outlets detailing various SEBO accessories prompted me to cobble the following pictorial together...Radiator Brush #1496DG (Dark Gray) attached to Crevice Tool #8066GS. I consider Radiator Brush #1496DG an essential accessory as the onboard Dusting Brush #8146ER is overly stubby and obtuse to perform tasks where both vertical and horizontal space is limited (an all too common occurence in a typical household). Horsehair bristles are resilient, yet not excessively stiff. Recommended to use with caution on delicate items. Debros tends to lodge and accumulate between the brush and the crevice tool.

Hand-held Turbo Brush #6179DA (Dark Gray) profiles and internals. High-pitched, very high volume (i.e. loud) whine is accompanied by impressive brush rotation and suction. Compares favorably, if not superior to the Dyson Mini Turbine 915034-02 off a DC28 Animal. Simple, intuitive maintenance procedure, cogged belt drive, self-leveling head (great feature), nylon bristles shorter than I would have preferred. Brush roll and belt appear to be the primary wear items. Does anyone know what tools are required to remove the brush roll?

9-Foot Extension Hose #1495AM is slightly narrower than the D4 power hose (with its internal electrical cord) and is offered in a darker shade of grey. Standard friction fit on the accessory tool end, flexible rubber friction fit on the wand end provides for an excellent air seal and will also accommodate Miele wands without issue.

The ET-2 #9958AM (not yet listed on the SEBO America website) is what should have been offered with the D4 Premium. Not only does it perform the job faster than the ET-1, its longer extension allows it to cover additional area around obstacles. The ET-2 is also more stable when parked upright than its little brother. Heavier than its brethren, but then again, that is what the gym is for. That said, we leave the ET-2 upstairs to tackle carpeted hallway and bedroom chores while the ET-1 handles entry rugs and carpeted guest rooms downstairs. Offhand, we may decide to opt for an S7 Bolero in the near future (it handles beautifully) and relegate the ET-1 to an eBay sale.

Lets see now,

really nothing new. Same old junk attachments, cheap hose, handle grips that break off ,pigtail cords that short out, Telescopic wands that dont lock,

Sebo should stick to the X series uprights.

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

While they look and feel sturdy enough, the SEBO attachments do not appear to be as refined in finish as those offered by others.

The inclusion of wire reinforcement and replaceable hose ends (particularly at the wand end) would be our only gripes at the moment.

Would this not also be the case for any protruding handle of injection molded plastic? Or is there a higher incidence of failure with SEBO handles?

Would you attribute this to wire insulation which readily abrades (owing to its exposure), poor soldering at connections, or both?

We have not yet experienced this and will be keeping an eye out for excessive detent wear. That said, what other canister alternatives would you recommend?

Since SEBO's new bag design in the D series, similar to the Felix, SEBO are bringing out better filtration bags. The new material bags are similar to the D series and will be available for the Felix and X series. They will be a bit more expensive than they are, so watch this space!

FOR 2012, there are a couple of new SEBO releases. Firstly, a commercial version of the D canister, called "Professional D" and comes with a manual cord. It is pretty similar to the standard D range with a few changes. In Germany there are two models with different floors, the D7 has a parquet brush, the D8 has the standard heavy duty 2 way suction only floor head. The bottom cord hook (metal hook) also pushes into a recess when not required and easily pulls out to accept the bottom part of the cord when putting/storing the vacuum away. SEBO have also installed better quality commercial grade castors compared to those featured on the domestic market D series.

The machine's radius of action of 15.5 metres gives greater manoeuvrability without the user having to find another socket closer to the area being cleaned, and the six litre filter bag (the machine offers high quality S class filtration) gives increased capacity and makes this unit more economical to use. Improved air channels and conical hose produce a higher suction power, the patented Airbelt protects furniture and walls, while the innovative cable winder facilitates fast and tidy storage. Other features include a movable twist and tip joint, ergonomic handle and smooth start-up for longer life and a 'cold-socket' solution that enables the connecting cable to be replaced quickly if needed.








Other release - The FELIX range of uprights receives a new similar Turbo fan motor from the D series, making it quieter. That's all I know folks, but as usual I'll keep you posted!

Thanks vacmanuk! Venson

Thanks Vacmanuk for the Sebo information. 

I have a Sebo Felix and really like it, will watch out for the new motor in the Felix next year.   I do like the D Series and X Series, was thinking of getting a Sebo X4 I take it there is no plans to change the X Series?   I'm really impressed with Sebo and how the brush roll on the Felix power head grooms the carpet better than other brands I've used in the past.   

DC18

DC18 wrote:
No problem DC - just keeping my ear to the ground and watching the web

My Felix is now six years old and looks pretty much abused, even though it still has that cream navy look to it and an ice blue wrap I prefer to the dark navy blue that came with it originally. However my Felix is noisier than most, having tried new ones in John Lewis stores, UK, but I think that's down to its age and if it isn't broke, there's no point in replacing it sadly.

Ive asked SEBO when they would update the X series, but they don't have any plans. It's a classic upright that does most things well, but could do with a variable suction dial like the Felix and a brush stop roll function. Perhaps their future traditional upright will have that. I have an X4 but my mum has the X1.1 and there's not much of a difference, really except of course just a slight hike of power.

http://www.sebo.co.uk/support/downloads/brochures/Professional_D_Brochure.pdf

UK brochure now available at SEBO UK.