Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I'm set on purchasing a Miele canister. Need some insight with real differences between the two lines - S2 and S5. Looking at straight comparison up on web I don't see significant differences in the unit itself. For e.g. http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/vacoverview.html For the most part it looks like main difference is in the bundled attachments, such as, power head, brush. Motor is the same, suction & air-flow supposedly is similar. Does it mean that if you throw higher end power head, floor brush that is bundled with Callisto over to a Delphi then Delphi becomes pretty much similar to Callisto ignoring cosmetics such as ergo handle etc.?

Hertz wrote:

Pardon me for asking a question on behalf of another poster to whom you addressed your post but it just begs the following questions:  What does the type of motor have to do with how well a vacuum is sealed and filters?  For example, dyson sourced its motors from panasonic for its first produced DC07's.  These were motors that for the most part were in the industry since the 70's and found pervasively in big box store brands, like panasonics, that were selling for less than $100.  Dysons were retailing for $430 plus using a $50 over the counter pano motor.  What effects good or bad did using these old cheap one fan pano motors have on dyson's filtering and seals?

Carmine D.

 

Actionvac wrote:
Having motors fail on you has nothing to do with ' a sealed suction system' However I can see how consumers/buyers are being confused by what they think sealed suction means.
To my engineering ears, sealed suction means seals around the bag area and bin door with the hose connector that minimises dust leakage or even vacuum leakage that can be felt around the seal of the bin door. Other brands such as Hoover UK have for many years confused buyers with their term "Sealed Suction system" by pointing to the dust pull slips on the paper dust bags to ensure dust doesn't leak from the bag. That's just the bag and not the vacuum.

However when I googled "sealed suction system," just now, my eyes were drawn to a particular company:

http://www.ristenbatt.com/smpower.mv#SS

"...The sealed suction of a vacuum cleaner as rated in inches of water lift is a good indication of how well it will perform, especially when comparing systems with higher resistance to the air flow. The air flow is proportional to the amount of suction produced by the motor and inversely proportional to the total resistance to air flow within the complete system. Therefore, if everything else is equal, the more suction produced by the motor, the better the performance of the system. The sealed suction rating is somewhat greater than the suction normally produced when operating with air flow. It indicates the maximum suction which can be produced by the motor as described in the section about the load on the suction motor. Since the sealed suction rating is measured with absolutely no air flow, it is not affected by the resistance to air flow within the system. If there are no leaks within the system, the sealed suction as measured on a gauge will be the same at the cleaning nozzle as it is at the suction motor. Even if the filter system is extremely restrictive, the sealed suction will not be affected by it. Alternately, when air flow is present, the actual suction will decrease as resistance to the air flow increases between the suction motor and the point where it is measured..."

Sounds all very scientific but when Miele and other companies use these words such as "Sealed suction system," it can be harder to explain than the above statement. Both the S2 and the S5 have similar motors = but they are not the SAME rated power in the UK.. Therefore results are different and as you know the UK has different wattage to the U.S In the U.S though the S5 and the S2 have the same Vortex 1200 motor. In the UK the S2 has a 1600 watt motor and the S5 has a 2200 watt motor.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks vacmanuk for the info and quote on sealed suction systems.  Very interesting and useful.

Carmine D.

PS:  In the old days, door to door vacuum sales times, unscrupulous salesmen would remove the bag gasket on cloth bags, of course when customers weren't watching, and then demo their brand against the home owner's model.  The simple removal of the bag gasket, which sealed the vacuum's suction for max pick up performance, reduced the suction enough on the homeowner's model to make a huge difference in the seller's demo.  For the unknowing, usually made the sale too.

I could be wrong but I think we are discussing 2 different things. A "Sealed System" I believe refers to the total area from air intake to exhaust that is sealed by gaskets so that no exhaust can leak from any part of the vacuum before the final exhaust port. A "Sealed Suction System" refers to the ability to create an efficient "air vacuum".

Lucky1 wrote:

I agree with you and therein is the confusion among vacuum users and customers.  A sealed system and sealed suction system are mutually inclusive in that the better the former the better the latter [all things being equal, which of course they never are].  Which is the key point IMHO of the quote that vacmanuk posted.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Precisely Carmine, thank you. Which brings me back to the original theory behind the S2 and S5. ALL Miele vacuums have been tested and fitted with sealed suction units. The S2 is no different. Having just bought a new S4212 recently I'm also happy to report that it has a sealed suction unit, sealed motor and also additionally this one I have is made in Germany - my old S4210 was made in China - and I can't really tell a difference where the build quality is concerned. Still pretty much premium and generally excellent.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thank you, Vacmanuk.  You researched and posted the info with the synopsis.  I just agreed.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I've got no gripes over quality but it appears the bloom fell quickly off the rose as far as the paint job on my Capricorn goes.  A picayune point I admit but I'd think more care would have been taken with the finish considering the cost of the machine.  The charcoal grey machine base, colored all the way through, looks great but the "silver" cover and matching parts looks kind of ratty.I don't know the proper term but I would have preferred material colored all the way through to lessen the appearanc of small scratches and scuffs. 

Generally, all the attachments just need a wipe with a damp cloth to keep the spiffy look.

Venson

Venson wrote:
Its the same with my old S4210 and infact the whole S4 range that has silver paint. The pedals get scratched fairly easily and silver paint flecks come off easily. It's hard not to be "abusive" with a vacuum cleaner though, Venson. Unless you wrap it in clear PVC plastic to keep it looking new or you're a collector where the machine only comes out of the bag periodically for photographs. Still, I take your point since my own experience of the silver paint comes off all too easily. Even my S5 handle has silver paint that has come off.

However, I've only just began to look into Miele's claim of supposedly better design through my Which membership and discovered that the Miele S7 has quite a few faults with its handle from a lot of disgruntled owners.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk,

I am not saying that I expect a vacuum to look exactly the way it it did the day I took iyt out of the box forever.  Hpwever, I have seen and even own vacuums that are 40 years or older that, even with a few dings, have maintained more eye appeal than my two year old Capricorn. With reasonable care, just for the sake of the aesthetics that may have helped me choose thing -- especially at high price -- I'd also like to see some proof of external quality like a finish that can endure a few bangs and scuffs.  I want this the same as I want body components that are resisteantt to breakage, I want to to walk to the closet and feel a little pleased by way of my purchase's appearance.

There are finishes or materials that can help promote that but Miele apparently chose not to bother though nothing was overlooked when time came to decide on what to put on the price tag.  Saving a few bucks by painting some body components when you use color infused material elsewhere is merely nickel-and-diming.  And the even greater insult is when you see machines that cost far less doing the opposite.  If it can be done for two hundred buck machines it would seem like cinch for a vacuum they ask as much as $1,200 for.

Venson