Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I'm set on purchasing a Miele canister. Need some insight with real differences between the two lines - S2 and S5. Looking at straight comparison up on web I don't see significant differences in the unit itself. For e.g. http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/vacoverview.html For the most part it looks like main difference is in the bundled attachments, such as, power head, brush. Motor is the same, suction & air-flow supposedly is similar. Does it mean that if you throw higher end power head, floor brush that is bundled with Callisto over to a Delphi then Delphi becomes pretty much similar to Callisto ignoring cosmetics such as ergo handle etc.?

To MIELE's defense, its USA product literature refers to its vacuums as: "The Original Sealed System [TM] Vacuum Cleaner."  With the following description:  "Only vacuums that are true sealed and have unique dustbag containment area can guarantee that what you vacuum up actually stays in the vacuum and is not returned to the air through the machine housing or during disposal.  MIELE delivers on both counts.  The MIELE filtration system utilizes electrostatically charged materials to ensure that dust particles are securely trapped inside the machine.  MIELE offers three advanced filters depending on your specific needs." 

Note in describing the sealed system, MIELE makes no mention of the HEPA, which is just one of the 3 filter options offered.

Carmine D. 

WRT to Consumer Reports and its caveats with HEPA:  Excerpted from a July 1999 C R vacuum article:  "The less you come into contact with dirt, the better.  Allergy sufferers in particular want a machine with a clean exhaust, but a pricey HEPA filter isn't the only answer."  And more from the CR article:  "Bring back the bag.  Some models, like the Eureka Whirlwind, do away with the dirt bag.  But the plastic bin is really messy to empty."

Carmine D.

PS: Highlighted part for emphasis.

And more from the same C R article in describing the top 3 uprights rated [HOOVER WT, Kenmore Progessive, Sharp EC]:  "None of the top 3 rated uprights have a HEPA filter, but all have a very clean exhaust and would be a good choice for a home that has someone with allergies."

CarmineD wrote:
And yet Carmine, in the UK website, or rather from the Miele website where "optimum hygiene," is concerned, Miele say:

"...Thanks to the filter bag system and an airtight body, Miele vacuum cleaners were the first to comply, as a complete system, with the requirements of the new European standard for air hygiene when fitted with an Active HEPA filter. They have been awarded seals of approval by the DMT, an independent institute in Germany, in recognition of the fact that they can reduce an individual’s exposure to airborne particles such as house dust mite and cat allergens. Indeed, all our cleaners perform to the same high standards when used with the Active HEPA filter..."

Lets not get carried away with a sealed suction system and filtration.

vacmanuk wrote:

Same is true with MIELE's USA product literature, vacmanuk.  MIELE says, and I paraphrase and excerpt the salient point, it attributes its success in the awarding of the DMT certification to the combination of the Sealed System and HEPA working together.

It makes sense, if filtration is one of the mainstay MIELE fortes [as I believe we all agree it is and always has been for its 80 plus years of vacuum production], that the two features would be emphasized by MIELE as working in tandem to achieve the maximum  protection for indoor air quality.  From reading the interpretation of the MIELE Delphi buyer above, the dealer/seller makes the same point in the sales pitch for adding the HEPA bags/filter cartridge.

Carmine D.

The s2 is not a sealed system as the s5 is, as well airflo is similar but s5 has a heavier duty motor, i have had 3 s2 motor fail already

Actionvac wrote:

FWIW, per the Nov 2010 Consumer Reports 3 MIELE S2 models make the top 12 canns.  2 in the top 10 and one the MIELE Olympus cann gets a recommended rating by CR.  Same is true for the MIELE S7 ups.  3 make the top 10 with the Twist rated a recommended. 

Carmine D.

Actionvac wrote:

THEY ALL USE THE SAME MOTOR. I don't believe a word this dude just said.

Hertz wrote:

Pardon me for asking a question on behalf of another poster to whom you addressed your post but it just begs the following questions:  What does the type of motor have to do with how well a vacuum is sealed and filters?  For example, dyson sourced its motors from panasonic for its first produced DC07's.  These were motors that for the most part were in the industry since the 70's and found pervasively in big box store brands, like panasonics, that were selling for less than $100.  Dysons were retailing for $430 plus using a $50 over the counter pano motor.  What effects good or bad did using these old cheap one fan pano motors have on dyson's filtering and seals?

Carmine D.

 

Actionvac wrote:
Having motors fail on you has nothing to do with ' a sealed suction system' However I can see how consumers/buyers are being confused by what they think sealed suction means.
To my engineering ears, sealed suction means seals around the bag area and bin door with the hose connector that minimises dust leakage or even vacuum leakage that can be felt around the seal of the bin door. Other brands such as Hoover UK have for many years confused buyers with their term "Sealed Suction system" by pointing to the dust pull slips on the paper dust bags to ensure dust doesn't leak from the bag. That's just the bag and not the vacuum.

However when I googled "sealed suction system," just now, my eyes were drawn to a particular company:

http://www.ristenbatt.com/smpower.mv#SS

"...The sealed suction of a vacuum cleaner as rated in inches of water lift is a good indication of how well it will perform, especially when comparing systems with higher resistance to the air flow. The air flow is proportional to the amount of suction produced by the motor and inversely proportional to the total resistance to air flow within the complete system. Therefore, if everything else is equal, the more suction produced by the motor, the better the performance of the system. The sealed suction rating is somewhat greater than the suction normally produced when operating with air flow. It indicates the maximum suction which can be produced by the motor as described in the section about the load on the suction motor. Since the sealed suction rating is measured with absolutely no air flow, it is not affected by the resistance to air flow within the system. If there are no leaks within the system, the sealed suction as measured on a gauge will be the same at the cleaning nozzle as it is at the suction motor. Even if the filter system is extremely restrictive, the sealed suction will not be affected by it. Alternately, when air flow is present, the actual suction will decrease as resistance to the air flow increases between the suction motor and the point where it is measured..."

Sounds all very scientific but when Miele and other companies use these words such as "Sealed suction system," it can be harder to explain than the above statement. Both the S2 and the S5 have similar motors = but they are not the SAME rated power in the UK.. Therefore results are different and as you know the UK has different wattage to the U.S In the U.S though the S5 and the S2 have the same Vortex 1200 motor. In the UK the S2 has a 1600 watt motor and the S5 has a 2200 watt motor.

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks vacmanuk for the info and quote on sealed suction systems.  Very interesting and useful.

Carmine D.

PS:  In the old days, door to door vacuum sales times, unscrupulous salesmen would remove the bag gasket on cloth bags, of course when customers weren't watching, and then demo their brand against the home owner's model.  The simple removal of the bag gasket, which sealed the vacuum's suction for max pick up performance, reduced the suction enough on the homeowner's model to make a huge difference in the seller's demo.  For the unknowing, usually made the sale too.