I have been reading the various forums here this morning and they are so helpful.

I know what I don't want, so now I am having difficulty deciding between what appear to be 2 very good machines.

After pushing several of the previously mentioned machines around in the store, I might have a slight prefernce for the Riccar.  I like the fact that it won't need belts, and will turn off when I accidently suck up something I shouldn't.  I also prefer the hand held vac that comes with the Riccar, but I think that may be mostly cosmetic.

I believe I would choose the Pilot over the Gold, but I did not consider or really know about  the Edge I see talked about on here.  When it comes to the Oreck, it is hard to overlook the great 6 or 10+ year service plan, not to mention the 30 day money back guarantee.

Now, I am just going around and around in circles.

Does anyone here have some information that might help me move on?

Thank you.

Are they as similar as they seem?  I can push them around in the store all day and won't really know the subtle differences.

Does it matter if one has a wooden roller and the other has metal?  I guess I need to go back and feel the bristles on each one, too.

Is there really an upright that won't scratch hardwoods if the beater bar is turning?

I believe that I can get the Oreck price a little cheaper, but I gathered from the store owner that the Riccar price was not negotiable.

I just want to do this one time and be done with it for a long time.  Years ago, I had a Riccar, followed by a Sharp, and a Panasonic, Hoover and Eureka.  The old Panasonic is still running even though it has a bit of duct tape on it.

The machines I have now weigh 27+ pounds and the Eureka is nothing but an Albatross.  It is powerful, though.  Thanks to Consumer Reports advice I have been stuck with this thing for a few years.

Now, I need something lightweight, efficient, and durable.

How can I tell how powerful the suction is on these machines?  It is not too hard to pick up a little dog hair and coffee grounds in the vac store.

This info may be useful about current ORECK sale prices if you prefer over the RICCAR.

Carmine D.

	Call 1-800-219-2044 to order anytime 24/7.

Get 10% off orders of $49-$299 Get 15% off orders of $300-$499 Get 20% off orders over $500 Maximum savings of $120.

Thank you Carmine.

I noticed the prices on the web site are cheaper than the ones quoted to me in the store.  I copied those pages and assumed that the store would meet those prices.  I  haven't been back to the store yet to see.  That would make the difference to me, I think.

I see that you are a big Oreck fan.  I enjoyed reading your posts.  Have you checked out the Riccars and compared them to the Oreck?

Can I get a machine that does a good job and still be light?

At this time I just want to be sure I get the best machine for my money.  The Oreck is going to cost less.

The Oreck XL® Platinum Pilot Power Team
Weight	9 pounds
Warranty	10 year overall
Handheld Vac	Ultimate Handheld Vacuum details » Oreck Handheld vacuums weigh only 5 lbs., feature a long 3 year warranty, and comes with a 20 ft. power cord, crevice tool, upholstery tool, floor tool, dusting brush and shoulder strap. They can also be used as a blower. The Ultimate Handheld model features a stronger motor, longer extension hose, and HEPA filtration.
Filtation	HEPA filtration 4-layer outer bag 4-layer inner bag Captures 99.9% of particles down to 0.3 microns.
Free Tune-Ups	10 Annual
Microban Antimicrobial Product Protection	Yes
Headlights	Twin LED
Speed Settings	Two Speeds
Cord Length	30 ft.
Ergonomic Handle	Yes, Comfort Fit Helping Hand Style
Sound Dampening Technology	Yes

Like all eight-pound SupraLite vacuums, the new flagship RSL5 starts with the unprecedented cleaning performance and astonishing ease of use, the hallmarks of this remarkable series. But what makes the RSL5 truly unique is the durability of a steel brushroll, the ability to customize the brushstrips to your home's flooring and a Hall sensor to ensure you'll never have the hassle of changing the belt. All considered, with the top-tier SupraLite, vacuuming has never been so easy and worry-free.
Performance	5.5 amps of power
Filtration	HEPA
Durability	The RSL5 is backed by a 3 year warranty.
Handle Tube	Steel
Bottom Plate	Polycarbon
Brushroll	Steel with 2 rolls of replaceable brushstrips
Belt	Lifetime serpentine with Hall™ Sensor protection
Wheel Type	Soft Rubber
Circuit Breaker	Standard
Convenience
Squeegee for Bare Floor Cleaning	Standard
Handle	Ergonomic looped
On/Off Switch	On handle, with speed selector
Headlight	Long lasting Xenon™
Soft Furniture Guard	Standard
Cord Length	30 feet
Color	Copper
Factory	St. James, Missouri
	$699.95

I've taken the liberty to list the features of both.  You have a price of $650 for the RICCAR RSL5.  The price for the ORECK Pilot is $480 with the savings.  The differences are the prices, the addition of the compact canister with the ORECK Pilot, the 10 year warranty for ORECK Pilot and 3 years for RSL5.  The lifetime serpentine belt for RICCAR.  ORECK belts are relatively inexpensive buck or $2 and easy user installation.  Generally last 5 months.  Amps are the same for both ORECK Pilot and RICCAR RSL5 at 5.5 amps.  You can also get customized brush strips for the RICCAR which has a metal brush roll.  ORECK Pilot is wood with one texture of tufts for brush roll.  Both have two speeds.  But that is not a big deal for most.  Might be for you.  Both have same cord length, both have headlights, both made in the in the USA.  Both are HEPA rated.  Both have an excellent network of authorized dealers/stores for repairs and parts.  The Pilot has the pivot swivelling neck.  That's not a big plus for some, but may be for you. 

I'm a vacuum fan.  ORECK produces a good lightweight upright.  So does RICCAR.  You might also check out the SIMPLICITY Freedom series which is a lightweight upright similar to the RSL5 and RICCAR made but less expensive.  Similarly, you might check out one or more of the previous RSL models like the 3 and 4 [pictured below] for a better price than the RSL5.  You should, as suggested, use the models in the store and decide which you/other primary user[s], if applicable, prefer. 

Hope this is useful.  Thank you for your gracious comments about my posts. 

Carmine D. 

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  The RSL5 is bronze [aka copper].

  .

tbstbs wrote:

I understand the same ORECK sales/savings are applicable at all the ORECK stores thru 8/15/10.

Carmine D.

I think most vacuum experts would agree that Riccar is superior quality to Oreck.... I'd go with the Riccar unless the Oreck just has some stand out features that you can't live without.  I'd think a metal brushroll would make the machine push easier than a wooden one.... especially if it is coupled with a metal instead of plastic sole plate.   No matter how they push in the store, they are going to behave differently in your home, on your carpet, so I think the best thing would be to see if you could do a trial with both machines at home and see which one better suits you.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

I currently know personally several former long time RICCAR employees who now work for ORECK who would disagree with your statement.  They have made careers in the vacuum industry and are for all intents and purposes experts in their respective fields.  On rugs, I would give the nod to RICCAR over ORECK for performance by a tad bit.  Quality of one brand over the other...very close to judge.  Value?  The facts speak for themselves.  In the final analysis, peoples' personal preferences probably dictate their likes and dislikes for both and their purchase decisions.

One concern with the Pilot that I have is the affect of the weighted bag on the pivoting and handling.  Of course empty it is a breeze and nifty.  As the bag fills and becomes heavy, especially the ORECK size bag, I opine the swivel and pivotiong feature gets impeded.  Don't know this for sure yet but it is a concern I would voice to buyers who are interested in the Pilot.

Carmine D.

Carmine, there may be people you know who disagree with that, but I still say the majority of vacuum experts would choose Riccar over Oreck any day.  Maybe we should do a nationwide poll  :o) 

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Are these the same experts.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

If one researches Consumer Reports latest edition March 2010 ORECK XL Platinum meets the 60 score cutoff for ups with RICCAR RSL3 scoring 66.  On the reliability scores for both ORECK and RICCAR, ORECK beats RICCAR but within the survey margin of error at 9 percent for ORECK versus 11 percent repair rate for RICCAR.  Very close on all CR accounts.  CR should be updating its vacuum test scores and results in October.

Carmine D.

tbstbs....I will first say I am a Simplicity Dealer (Riccar and Simplicity are basically the same). I have to say that this company is the very best at customer service of ANY that I have dealt with. It may not seem like much when your vacuum is working but if you need attention later.... I really like the lightweight series. If you don't want the metal roller get the 2 speed model below the one you are looking at. (you won't get the auto shut off though) -As for Oreck and it's pricing, be careful. Some dealers will not service or warrantee an Oreck bought from a Discounter, Box Store or Online. -My experience is the Oreck Belt needs to be replaced every 6-8 months to be at maximum efficiency. -They are hard to push on Thick Carpeting -When bringing in your Oreck for one of those "Free Tune-ups" Be prepared to be sold a newer model or at least a sales pitch to do so. This is only my opinion for what it's worth.