I have been reading the various forums here this morning and they are so helpful.

I know what I don't want, so now I am having difficulty deciding between what appear to be 2 very good machines.

After pushing several of the previously mentioned machines around in the store, I might have a slight prefernce for the Riccar.  I like the fact that it won't need belts, and will turn off when I accidently suck up something I shouldn't.  I also prefer the hand held vac that comes with the Riccar, but I think that may be mostly cosmetic.

I believe I would choose the Pilot over the Gold, but I did not consider or really know about  the Edge I see talked about on here.  When it comes to the Oreck, it is hard to overlook the great 6 or 10+ year service plan, not to mention the 30 day money back guarantee.

Now, I am just going around and around in circles.

Does anyone here have some information that might help me move on?

tbstbs wrote:

The only thing I would suggest is that you be sure that you negotiate the best price possible for either.  All other matters as regards weight and noise levels are for you to decide.

Venson

Thank you.

Are they as similar as they seem?  I can push them around in the store all day and won't really know the subtle differences.

Does it matter if one has a wooden roller and the other has metal?  I guess I need to go back and feel the bristles on each one, too.

Is there really an upright that won't scratch hardwoods if the beater bar is turning?

I believe that I can get the Oreck price a little cheaper, but I gathered from the store owner that the Riccar price was not negotiable.

I just want to do this one time and be done with it for a long time.  Years ago, I had a Riccar, followed by a Sharp, and a Panasonic, Hoover and Eureka.  The old Panasonic is still running even though it has a bit of duct tape on it.

The machines I have now weigh 27+ pounds and the Eureka is nothing but an Albatross.  It is powerful, though.  Thanks to Consumer Reports advice I have been stuck with this thing for a few years.

Now, I need something lightweight, efficient, and durable.

How can I tell how powerful the suction is on these machines?  It is not too hard to pick up a little dog hair and coffee grounds in the vac store.

This info may be useful about current ORECK sale prices if you prefer over the RICCAR.

Carmine D.

	Call 1-800-219-2044 to order anytime 24/7.

Get 10% off orders of $49-$299 Get 15% off orders of $300-$499 Get 20% off orders over $500 Maximum savings of $120.

Thank you Carmine.

I noticed the prices on the web site are cheaper than the ones quoted to me in the store.  I copied those pages and assumed that the store would meet those prices.  I  haven't been back to the store yet to see.  That would make the difference to me, I think.

I see that you are a big Oreck fan.  I enjoyed reading your posts.  Have you checked out the Riccars and compared them to the Oreck?

Can I get a machine that does a good job and still be light?

At this time I just want to be sure I get the best machine for my money.  The Oreck is going to cost less.

The Oreck XL® Platinum Pilot Power Team
Weight	9 pounds
Warranty	10 year overall
Handheld Vac	Ultimate Handheld Vacuum details » Oreck Handheld vacuums weigh only 5 lbs., feature a long 3 year warranty, and comes with a 20 ft. power cord, crevice tool, upholstery tool, floor tool, dusting brush and shoulder strap. They can also be used as a blower. The Ultimate Handheld model features a stronger motor, longer extension hose, and HEPA filtration.
Filtation	HEPA filtration 4-layer outer bag 4-layer inner bag Captures 99.9% of particles down to 0.3 microns.
Free Tune-Ups	10 Annual
Microban Antimicrobial Product Protection	Yes
Headlights	Twin LED
Speed Settings	Two Speeds
Cord Length	30 ft.
Ergonomic Handle	Yes, Comfort Fit Helping Hand Style
Sound Dampening Technology	Yes

Like all eight-pound SupraLite vacuums, the new flagship RSL5 starts with the unprecedented cleaning performance and astonishing ease of use, the hallmarks of this remarkable series. But what makes the RSL5 truly unique is the durability of a steel brushroll, the ability to customize the brushstrips to your home's flooring and a Hall sensor to ensure you'll never have the hassle of changing the belt. All considered, with the top-tier SupraLite, vacuuming has never been so easy and worry-free.
Performance	5.5 amps of power
Filtration	HEPA
Durability	The RSL5 is backed by a 3 year warranty.
Handle Tube	Steel
Bottom Plate	Polycarbon
Brushroll	Steel with 2 rolls of replaceable brushstrips
Belt	Lifetime serpentine with Hall™ Sensor protection
Wheel Type	Soft Rubber
Circuit Breaker	Standard
Convenience
Squeegee for Bare Floor Cleaning	Standard
Handle	Ergonomic looped
On/Off Switch	On handle, with speed selector
Headlight	Long lasting Xenon™
Soft Furniture Guard	Standard
Cord Length	30 feet
Color	Copper
Factory	St. James, Missouri
	$699.95

I've taken the liberty to list the features of both.  You have a price of $650 for the RICCAR RSL5.  The price for the ORECK Pilot is $480 with the savings.  The differences are the prices, the addition of the compact canister with the ORECK Pilot, the 10 year warranty for ORECK Pilot and 3 years for RSL5.  The lifetime serpentine belt for RICCAR.  ORECK belts are relatively inexpensive buck or $2 and easy user installation.  Generally last 5 months.  Amps are the same for both ORECK Pilot and RICCAR RSL5 at 5.5 amps.  You can also get customized brush strips for the RICCAR which has a metal brush roll.  ORECK Pilot is wood with one texture of tufts for brush roll.  Both have two speeds.  But that is not a big deal for most.  Might be for you.  Both have same cord length, both have headlights, both made in the in the USA.  Both are HEPA rated.  Both have an excellent network of authorized dealers/stores for repairs and parts.  The Pilot has the pivot swivelling neck.  That's not a big plus for some, but may be for you. 

I'm a vacuum fan.  ORECK produces a good lightweight upright.  So does RICCAR.  You might also check out the SIMPLICITY Freedom series which is a lightweight upright similar to the RSL5 and RICCAR made but less expensive.  Similarly, you might check out one or more of the previous RSL models like the 3 and 4 [pictured below] for a better price than the RSL5.  You should, as suggested, use the models in the store and decide which you/other primary user[s], if applicable, prefer. 

Hope this is useful.  Thank you for your gracious comments about my posts. 

Carmine D. 

•   

  The RSL5 is bronze [aka copper].

  .

tbstbs wrote:

I understand the same ORECK sales/savings are applicable at all the ORECK stores thru 8/15/10.

Carmine D.

I think most vacuum experts would agree that Riccar is superior quality to Oreck.... I'd go with the Riccar unless the Oreck just has some stand out features that you can't live without.  I'd think a metal brushroll would make the machine push easier than a wooden one.... especially if it is coupled with a metal instead of plastic sole plate.   No matter how they push in the store, they are going to behave differently in your home, on your carpet, so I think the best thing would be to see if you could do a trial with both machines at home and see which one better suits you.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

I currently know personally several former long time RICCAR employees who now work for ORECK who would disagree with your statement.  They have made careers in the vacuum industry and are for all intents and purposes experts in their respective fields.  On rugs, I would give the nod to RICCAR over ORECK for performance by a tad bit.  Quality of one brand over the other...very close to judge.  Value?  The facts speak for themselves.  In the final analysis, peoples' personal preferences probably dictate their likes and dislikes for both and their purchase decisions.

One concern with the Pilot that I have is the affect of the weighted bag on the pivoting and handling.  Of course empty it is a breeze and nifty.  As the bag fills and becomes heavy, especially the ORECK size bag, I opine the swivel and pivotiong feature gets impeded.  Don't know this for sure yet but it is a concern I would voice to buyers who are interested in the Pilot.

Carmine D.

Carmine, there may be people you know who disagree with that, but I still say the majority of vacuum experts would choose Riccar over Oreck any day.  Maybe we should do a nationwide poll  :o) 

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Are these the same experts.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

If one researches Consumer Reports latest edition March 2010 ORECK XL Platinum meets the 60 score cutoff for ups with RICCAR RSL3 scoring 66.  On the reliability scores for both ORECK and RICCAR, ORECK beats RICCAR but within the survey margin of error at 9 percent for ORECK versus 11 percent repair rate for RICCAR.  Very close on all CR accounts.  CR should be updating its vacuum test scores and results in October.

Carmine D.

tbstbs....I will first say I am a Simplicity Dealer (Riccar and Simplicity are basically the same). I have to say that this company is the very best at customer service of ANY that I have dealt with. It may not seem like much when your vacuum is working but if you need attention later.... I really like the lightweight series. If you don't want the metal roller get the 2 speed model below the one you are looking at. (you won't get the auto shut off though) -As for Oreck and it's pricing, be careful. Some dealers will not service or warrantee an Oreck bought from a Discounter, Box Store or Online. -My experience is the Oreck Belt needs to be replaced every 6-8 months to be at maximum efficiency. -They are hard to push on Thick Carpeting -When bringing in your Oreck for one of those "Free Tune-ups" Be prepared to be sold a newer model or at least a sales pitch to do so. This is only my opinion for what it's worth.

Thanks everyone!

Well, we had a storm yesterday that knocked out my cable, phone, and internet.  That was probably a good thing because I would have spent the last many many hours reading one review after the other.  I had also found the You Tube videos!

So, I was on my own!

I decided that it made good sense to give the Pilot a try since they met the lower price, worked with me on the canister, and I can return it if I am disappointed.  I should know that for certain in 30 days.  The swivel feature is nice, but the bag is empty...and they are pricey!   The sales person was also very personable while the Riccar fellow got a little snarky with some other customers while I was there.  Not with me of course, because I am very charming.  As far as pushing it along, I let it go for a second and it rolled away from me.  Expect that won't happen when the bag is heavier.

After a short trial here, I am very pleased.  It is like buying a new car though.  Of course it is far superior to the rattle traps I have been lugging around for the last 5 years or so.  I am so happy that I could pick up the new vacuum and do my stairs with it.  It has been a long time since my stairs got a good cleaning.

Interestingly enough, the recs I got from friends and acquaintances were for either the Oreck or the Riccar.  There were a few Dyson recs, but I made up my mind that I wanted a lightweight, so I could eliminate the Dyson. 

That is my story so far.

I do sincerely thank you all.  I read here for quite a bit before I wrote in, and the information here really did help me a lot.

If it falls apart right away...I'll be back.  Insert smiley face.....

TBS

tbstbs wrote:

If it is typical Oreck you will not have to worry about the bag weight.  Takes a long time for an Oreck to suck up enough dirt to add weight.  They do not deep clean so you will only be removing surface dust.

tbstbs wrote:

No other vacuum maker except ORECK allows customers a free 30 day in-home trial with no obligations and willingly takes back their vacuums with no questions asked if the customer is not completely satisfied.  None except ORECK.  For over 45 years ORECK has made this promise.  Sure, many big box stores take back vacuums with stipulations/conditions within 30-60-90 days.  Some, like COSTCO, even allow customers longer than 90 days.  Good for the retailers like COSTCO who do.  More power to them.  Speaks volumes about ORECK, its products and its customer service guarantee.

Congrats on your new ORECK purchases and please keep us posted.

Carmine D.

If it is typical Oreck you will not have to worry about the bag weight.  Takes a long time for an Oreck to suck up enough dirt to add weight.  They do not deep clean so you will only be removing surface dust.

LOL

We shall see.  In the meantime, I still have a couple of powerful but difficult to use machines around here that I can use for a deeper clean.  If necessary.

It was nice for my vacuuming to be more of an activity than a awful chore.  The swivel feature turns out to be a real asset.  I loved swooping around a corner with the flick of my wrist.  Today I will break out the canister and clean some plantation blinds that I am embarassed about.  You know what?  Isn't it better to USE a vac that does a pretty good job than to have one that deep cleans, but rarely gets out of the closet because I hate to use it? 

I know a couple of clean freaks that have issues with pet hair.  One swears by her Oreck and the other her Riccar.

Hurray for me that I have 30 days to decide for myself.

tbstbs wrote:

Hi tbstbs,

The machine you will happily use over the machine you push yourself to use, no matter the supposed advantage, has always been the point.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Venson gets it.............

Vacuuming is a chore that people really dont like to do, sort of like cutting your lawn,its not very exciting and rather boring. Thats why people hire housecleaners and landscapers.

Being in the business.All i can say is kids and pets keep us in business.

regards

MOLE

I sell the Riccar sO Im biased but give a money back guarantee an they certainly are the most powerfull lightweight

Actionvac wrote:

Question:  After 30 days in home trial use?

Carmine D.

Tbs, I am glad you made a decision and I hope it works out well for you.

Carmine, I hardly think the few dealers in my area make up the majority of dealers in the world.... not to mention many people don't fully trust or agree with Consumer Reports.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

How true.  Nice to hear you say so.  TBS reads CR and purchased a EUREKA based on it with some regrets in hindsight.  CR is a guide not the gospel.  Experts in the industry are the best and final say.  Shoppers should use CR as a starting point not the ending place.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I was trying to be PC when I spoke about CR and my Eureka Boss.  It is without a doubt a piece of carp.  While it still has powerful suction, it has been a giant pain to operate and has other durability issues.  When I had to pull out the duct tape last week, I knew it was time to save myself.  My son is pretty excited that he can take it off to college with him.  Good riddance!  The vac, not my son.

This is not the first time I went with a CR recommendation and regretted it.

I almost renewed my subscription, but I found you guys instead.

tbstbs wrote:

I agree that CR best serves as a tool , not a Bible.  However, the same organization rated your new Pilot. as "very good" on carpet and for pet hair, "excellent" in regard to bare floor cleaning and emissions and also "excellent" for handling.  Are they off the mark now?

The Boss is rated as"fair" for handling.  I don't blame that on CR.  Maybe you missed the fine print stating that -- Overall, this is a very good upright vacuum that excelled at cleaning bare floors and picking up pet hair. It was also excellent at keeping its emissions low. It was fairly hard to handle.

Venson

Are we talking about the Boss Smart Vac?  I know that CR rated them highly along with the S/P WindTunnel.  I have both, and much prefer the WindTunnel.  Having sold both for Sears back in 2002, I know well of the durability issues with the Eureka.  The Hoover is an overall better machine, except for the hose fighting and the machine falling over when the hose is used....  Since I am a collector (I tend to prefer modern vacs though, lately my 60 dollar Kirby Sentria and my Dyson DC 14 have been the daily drivers), I baby my machines, so I hope not to have any issues with the Eureka. 

Yes, the Boss Smart Vac is the one I am referring to.  Even my 6'3" husband finds it hard to handle.  I don't remember what CR said in terms of management. At any rate, at the time I was wanting another vac so that I did not have to haul my Windtunnel up and down the stairs.  I was fairly used to a heavy vac, so it didn't seem to be a huge issue at the time.  The first problem that came up right away, was that the hose would not stay in it's cradle and would flop around when I vacuumed.  What was a good advantage when using the attachments, turned out to be a problem when not in use.  For awhile I tried to duct tape it and later used velcro to keep it in place.  That didn't work too well and I eventually learned to anchor it around the extenders on the side of the vac.  Then the release petel stopped working right and I had to kick it back in to hold the vac upright...I could go on....

I will send the Boss packing and keep the older Hoover.

I am not out to disrespect CR in general...just saying I have been disappointed.

The next time they send me a "we want you back" email...I might reconsider.  If it is really cheap.

petal....Is there a spell check on here?

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Hi VF,

Sometimes it the machine and sometimes its the user.  Most of the repair people have stories about bad machinery AND dumb users.

I have owned some of what I thought were the sturdiest vacuums known to man.  I gifted one, a well cared fro, almost new Filter Queen to a cousin and it was a shambles in less than six months. Looked liked she'd taken u Sumo wrestling.

Also I gifted a Kenmore can, not touted by many as durable, to a friend and now, some time later, he's still happy with it and it is doing well.  Note, I am not speaking of a person who particularly pays a lot of attention to his vacuum.  Prior, he'd owned only a Eureka Mighty Mite for ten years that carried him through a large loft space and two apartments before it had to be replaced. I on the other hand, no matter how careful I thought I was being, managed to snag and break the locking clip on a Kenmore can hose at least two or three times.

The Boss for its price should prove a decent enough machine but for its price -- $170 approx. -- I wouldn't get all het up about sturdiness.  Times have changed but . . .  you shouldn't have to baby a vacuum cleaner but you also should not abandon common sense regarding its handling and use.

Venson

tbstbs wrote:

Yes....pedal. 

Carmine D.

PS: The technical industry term is "handle release."

CarmineD wrote:

phhht! 

tbstbs wrote:

Charm trumps spell check.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Sure but my returns are superlow, everyone loves the RSL Riccar line

Venson wrote:

Consumer reports is in the subsription magazine business, they are hardly experts at anything but that

Actionvac wrote:

So show me.  I strongly disagree as CR is a tried and true shopping tool that has kept me a happy camper for years.  My first use of it was back in the "stereo age" -- the mid-70s -- when I bought a pair of Marantz audio speakers it recommended -- without audition.  They proved to be wonderful but were given to a friend when I headed off to Europe 20 years ago.  He still has them.

However, I in no way recommend the same for others.  Inform yourselves to what is available and suitable for your purpose and use.  Few salespersons show helpfulness in that area and neither are manufacturers.  So where do I go?  Do I knock on all the doors up and down my block to find out what food mixer they like or don't like when I need one?  Do I stop and ask every driver I see just why they chose their particular automobile?  Not likely.

Any vacuums that I have bought by way of CR have been what they were claimed BUT I'd read the whole text per item AND thought about it.  The problem is that many of us are not willing to make trade-offs or are too fast to jump to buy due to one rating issue.  Rating says, "Excellent for carpets," "Highest suction of all tested," and someone goes running off to store for it.  Ratings like "good" indicating a machine that may well prove more than satisfactory for many I think get passed by.

High-end Miele S7 uprights did get great scores for everything except handling.  CR didn't influence this buy as I got mine well before testing was done but I'm happy although that does not mean that someone else should be equally as pleased as I.  As well, I have seldom seen a Miele canister canister rate above good for carpet cleaning but I have one and am happy with it too.

But it's not all about premium priced vacs.  The el-cheapo Hoover Tempo continues to bring in good scores and is an easily affordable, worthwhile buy.  That kind of information I also thank CR for.

As for durability, in reality feel CR tests can show no more than I can learn at home.  There's no way of knowing what your vacuum's made of until after a couple of years of bangs and knocks plus the degradation of plasticizers have occured.  As well, common sense has never allowed me to expect much from bargain models and to take eveyday of use as a blessing -- not a given.  In 1959 a "deluxe" model vacuum that cleaned well and was durable could be had for $90.00.  You may have to pay as much as ten times that for a current equivalent to meet the same expectations.  But should everyone go out and buy 900 buck vacuums.  Heck no!  They should however seek to get the best in their price bracket.

My feeling, which you are surely free to take or leave, is that CR has been a help to lots of shoppers for all sorts of items and services and if not it would have run out of subscribers by now.  Thus it can be its own lawyer and plad its case by way of demand.  Until it has been proved to falsify tests and cater to manufacture and business interests, I'll continue to use it.

Venson

My statement was probably a little harsh but after 21 years in the vac business I tend to pick up on thier dead wrong best buys and high recommends as in my store I back up every thing I sell to a fault ,and reliability is a strong issue with me, and a lot of the high rated units ar the most problematic, as as I love to sell high end units I am just as happy to  sell a 199.00 Riccar USA vacuum promo vac, although I have CR to thank for keeping me in the repair business as the S/P Windtunnel is a huge addition to our repairs

Actionvac wrote:

So what is the $199.00 Riccar USA vacuum promo vac?  

Actionvac wrote:

I'm not surprised by either:  Low returns and users luv them. 

Carmine D.

Actionvac wrote:

As did the HOOVER Power dials from years and years ago.  Clutch guide wires, handles, transmission belts....to CR's credit it does rate HOOVER as one of the more repair prone models tho I suspect no more so than other brands save the fact that so many more HOOVER models are sold and in use for long periods of time [compared with other brands]. 

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

It is the Vibrance on board tools basic model with no light and wood brushroll 10 amp 3 yr warranty, 1 1/2 years ago when economy tanked they came out with 199,299,399,599 promo vacs, the 299 is Vibrance 10 amp, metal brush, inc on off for brushroll, the 399 was a 12 amp with on off brush but metal handle W/switch in handle 4 yr warranty and the 599 was a basic Tandem air model with black color 5 yr warranty, the 199.00 Vib or the others are 10 plus year vacs best deal out there I believe