Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi,

Which? magazine has just made a preliminary announcement re the Sebo D series vacuums.  Bags being my preference, I was pleased to read that the D series sports a 6-liter bag (about a gallon and a half).  The airbelt is a little wasted on me as I've never had problems with marring furniture.  However, if it will keep the machine itself from looking like it belongs in a second-hand shop for a few years I'm all for it.

Which? plans to test the D series soon.

The story is here: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/07/new-vacs-with-bumpers-to-protect-your-furniture-219804

Venson

adamlau wrote:
One can often spot a collector from a mile off : ) As the owner of the D2 Total, the body on mine has sustained a few scratches already but it is still quite shiny. What a waste of money though just because you don't like the aesethetic value of the bumper - don't forget regardless of the design that the cleaner air is diffused out the sides from the Air Belt compared to the hot facial you get with a Miele. You'll find changing the bags on the SEBO easier - they simply need to be fitted over a spring and then the door down to lock and the bags have caps already on them which only means a matter of bending over and manually sealing them. If you can't wait to see what the D4 is like check out You Tube - you'll see from the following video that the manual suction control dial lights up faster as soon as the variable suction through the handle buttons is increased. Frankly I think that is a total waste of LEDs when it could have been put to better use on the floor heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXql1QIFYvo

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmw-rFC2Ws

First impressions... The SEBO D4 Premium was shipped with Airbelt Cover #6047AM/01 (Dark Gray), did need to replace it for our desired aesthetic. Unit was received direct from SEBO America as brand-new with light swirls and scratches along the body and the ET-1 power head. It goes without saying that I would have much preferred a unit in pristine shape. A single, unused filter bag was pre-installed. Accessories, filters, and hose appeared to have been unused as well. Aside from being more stable when parked, the ET-2 does a better job on smooth, level floors, brush roll turned off on both, setting 1 of 4. Whereas the ET-1 failed to pick up stray ants with consistency, the ET-2 had no issues. We attributes this to the additional weight of the ET-2, which keeps the power head down to the floor. Would also have preferred a setting below 1 in order deep clean low-pile, commercial berber loop. D4 Premium as an article of furniture, accessories as mild living room accents...

The standard Parquet Brush #6391DA? It does a better job than the power heads for both wood and porcelain tile flooring. Overall, we found the parquet tool to be a bit lightweight, brush lift and loss of suction was a common complaint from household members. Perhaps the Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG with its additional footing and weight might help in this regard. In terms of raw suction and volume flow, the D4 falls short and simply cannot compare to the monster ability of the Dyson DC28 Animal. Relatively small diameter hose end (approximately 1-7/8" OD) of the D4 makes it slightly more tedious to perform tasks such as vacuuming the head after a good shearing. Changing accessories is straightforward, simple and fast. Bag changes are even faster. Cap, angle, lift and dispose. Align, drop in, pull back, done. Rotation of the hose end to canister neck transition not as fluid as I had expected. This tends to jostle the canister about when vacuuming aggressively, ball bearings would have been welcome. One workaround is to snap adjust the hose accordingly using the the off hand. This essentially turns aggressive vacuuming with the D4 into a two-handed affair. Had considered the light ring on the canister to be a gimmick at first, found its positive feedback to be rather useful over time. Noise quality (subjective) is very good. Canister does emit a high-pitched whine, though not quite as high as a Miele Polaris on max, or a Dyson DC28 Animal. Coupled with a power head, the D4 on max is not exactly silent.

Additional observations...Versus the Miele Polaris (parquet vs. parquet), we may prefer the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush to the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA as the SBB300 is wider and deeper with a reduced tendency to lift. From the hose end alone sans attachment and with news bags installed in both units, the Polaris felt as if it had greater static suction. Additional gripe with the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA: Poor edge cleaning, brush strips are visibly recessed from the housing. This is less pronounced with the SBB300. One workaround is to tilt and run the front edge of the brush along requisite edges as the rubber wheels of the tool prevent quality edge suction. Bottom line: The Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush appears to be superior for wide expanses of wood/grouted tile flooring whereas the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA is more nimble in getting around those ever present nooks and crannies (a boon for cluttered floors) and was preferred over its Miele counterpart for its handiness over an array of tabletops, sills and ledges.

Gripe with the ET-1/ET-2: Lack of replaceable side bumpers. Certainly one could replace the bearing block on the left, but what of the other side? What of the chassis itself? Two days of testing and hard use across two large homes and the power heads are exhibiting signs of wear along both sides of the chassis. A tool which costs 1K ought to have additional means and measures with which to keep it looking as if it cost 1K. The crevice tool can only do so much along. I cannot say enough about the Airbelt Cover as it has proved itself worthy of praise every single time we vacuumed. As an aside, we are not as enamored of the Miele FJM 7291640 filter bag as we were in the past due to the hinges preventing a complete cap seal. Also, where is the SEBO attachments trolley? A mini push cart replete with attachment points would most certainly be welcome from the standpoint of owners with multiple tools for multiple floor and surface types...

More observations...Would have appreciated grooves along the side of the canister with support for storing additional brushes e.g. Hand-held Turbo Brush #6179DA and Radiator Brush #1496DG. Support for parking power heads on the canister (only non-powered floor tools can be accomodated). A more elegant method to disconnect the hose from the handle. Despite its shortcomings, I remain a fan of the D4. Will be going head-to-head with a new Miele Capricorn next week. ET-2 versus the vaunted SEB236 on newly installed carpet. Not necessarily in terms of cleaning power, but rather in terms of features, general ergonomics, relative drawbacks and ease of use.

adamlau wrote:
A lot of good points but you expect too much - SEBO aren't interested in making their vacuums luxurious looking - their plastics are better made than Miele in most cases and even the roughest machine in the SEBO range after years of abuse will continue to keep working - my 15 year old X1 Automatic can attest to that - which is now working in the hands of a friend and when I sold it on, it went to a new appreciative owner who didn't care what the machine looked like - and I wasn't going to spend more money on getting a new bin door just because the old one was scratched, or similarly a new hood because the old one had scratches at the side.

I have a Miele Parquet brush tool and a SEBO Parquet deluxe - both brush strips can be removed on both the Miele and SEBO items but the Sebo brush tool is far easier to move from the handle with pipes added than the stiffer plastic on the Miele floor tool - not ideal for getting around table legs on stone floors either when the SEBO neck is smoother and a lot easier to turn around corners.

I do however realise that if you are in the U.S or Canada, the cost prices for SEBO and MIELE are fairly expensive and in this respect you may feel obliged to comment on your expectations.. In the UK the story is slightly different - a D4 Premium costs brand new £398-64 equivalent to $593-87. Also parts like front bumper that you speak of can be obtained from SEBO as well as the side locks - but again, the company expect machines to be abused - that is what they make after all compared to Miele being a larger - and much wider company in terms of household appliances, even though my S5 canister managed to sustain paint scrapes on the handle and back of the machine - in less than 2 weeks of being used. I don't see that being a complaint personally. I'd have more of a problem if the motor or tools snapped - which has seldom happened to me with a Miele, although not unheard of with other tool holder problems I've had with their S2.

The ET1/2 have no difference in weight distribution on surfaces- all you're seeing is a bigger floor head/brush roll barrel which may look to the eye as if pile is getting a deeper clean. Obviously the bigger floor head is heavier due to the bigger roller brushes added.  In both cases the manual dial height adjustment isn't changed - if it was the case that the bigger floor head gave a heavier and deeper clean, you can be sure that SEBO would have offered another height setting on the floor head. SEBO are first and foremost an engineering company who think about the versatile uses of their products rather than giving everything a smooth, organic finish- another reason to why you won't find silver inserts compared to Miele.

Not sure what you mean about the filter bag on the SEBO. There's a cap automatically fitted which you simply swing over come the time to empty - or are you looking for an automatic seal same as the one that had to be redesigned on the Miele dust bags?

I have no idea of why you would want an "attachments trolley." The D4 was made to accomodate the electric floor head and offer owners the choice of using traditional non-electric smaller tools compared to the electric head. The whole IDEA of the D series was to create a replacement model to the C series, as well as remaining lightweight. This is mirrored in the parts, floor heads, tubing and tooling. Adding a recess on the body to accomodate the mini turbo brush could well be an idea SEBO may make in the future - There's certainly space where the bin door is to accomodate something like that - but then I fear the cost price would be higher as well as the bin door having to be made thicker, heavier as a result to accomodate the turbo tool in the first place and then to compensate the added weight with extra springs so that door doesn't crush under pressure. You can buy a material cloth bag to hang up or carry with you to put extra tools in - it may not be available to buy in the U.S but its certainly available in the U.K and doesn't cost much. I use two - one to carry the bags for my X, D, K and Felix machines and the other bag to carry tools in.

Lastly - and this is a factor that I've always stood by - no matter what companies tell you, canister vacuums that have an electric embedded hose with an electronic floor head is always going to be heavy and slightly bulkier to use than the same machines without electronics fitted. I've never tried the D4 Premium because it does look bulky and I know I'd feel compromised to use the electrified hose in the same way I feel compromised with my own smaller K3 Premium. This is a reason to why UK buyers aren't taken in by canisters with the electric head. Although it is common place in the U.S, Europe still stands by suction only heads or air driven turbo brushes - because by and large, if buyers want deep clean, they'll buy uprights.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have noted the same. As an aside, I have also noted that the Miele Capricorn casters are much for fluid than those found on the SEBO D4 Premium.

vacmanuk wrote:
I have experienced quite the opposite when comparing the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush vs. the SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA. The action of the SBB300 swivel head is far smoother and much easier to manipulate than that of the #6391DA. This may not be the case with the SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG. Regardless, we noted that hair would tend to accumulate within the SBB300 and attributed such occurrences to the swivel design of the brush with its raised lip and potential snag points along the interior wall.

vacmanuk wrote:
I suppose our expectations for a 1K unit should be re-evaluated for one which actually sits in the 600 price range. Good point.

vacmanuk wrote:
Agreed. Though while the left and right bearing blocks can be replaced, the left block sits flush with the power head chassis. It is the marring of the chassis body and the ease with which it is scratched which concerns us. Be that as it may, the concern is minor though genuine if retaining factory aesthetics for an extended period of time is desired.

vacmanuk wrote:
See my previous comments regarding the pickup of ants. I should clarify that my comments on keeping the brush roll down is primarily directed towards an aggressive draw where the ET-1 has a tendency to lift off the floor surface. This issue is also evident in the Airbelt K demonstration videos on the SEBO America website. One workaround is to extend the telescopic handle a bit in order to retain a proper horizontal vacuuming plane.

vacmanuk wrote:
Excuse that random thought. What I meant to say was that I better appreciate how SEBO has approached the issue with the attached cap and how the Miele solution was not as effective as I had presumed. We noticed a layer of fine dust across the cap of every new Miele FMJ 7291640 filter bag after use and testing and attributed the cause to the poor seal at the hinge point pf the cap.

vacmanuk wrote:
A factory integrated look and feel of a complete and professional solution is what I am after. A system to be stored out in the open, accessories at the ready to tackle the chore of multiple surfaces. Among linear feet upon square feet of granite countertops and stainless appliances, our Ladybug TEKNO 2350 trolley accomplishes exactly that as it serves as the centerpiece appliance in the kitchen.

vacmanuk wrote:

We may be in the minority, but we feel a manually adjustable power head ought to give a clean as deep as uprights which feature automatically adjustable brush rolls. With the understanding that greater bristle and possibly carpet wear is incurred, we always set the brush head to 1 for all carpet types as this helps to offset the lower brush roll RPMs of power heads. Area rugs and mats are the only exception. We may decide to migrate to the more powerful ET-C to further close the perceived gap between uprights and canisters with power heads.

adamlau wrote:
You wouldn't get that with SEBO's D series. It is after all a domestic setting vacuum cleaner - not a commercial one. I'm sure in time SEBO could project a commercial based series based on their cylinder/canisters but so far they haven't stepped forward with that. I suppose the fact that Karcher in Germany is a neighbouring company that have their vacuum cleaners, which have used SEBO designs in the past - they would probably supply a trolley since their vacuums are built for rougher situations. The SEBO C series in particular would make a good commercially based vacuum, having the tools on the top as opposed to the back end on the D series. However, plainly speaking, one doesn't tend to get a trolley for domestic households. Maybe they have that in the U.S but an attachment trolley kind of adds complications to the design of the vacuum particularly in light of the facts that I've laid already that SEBO's main intent was to create a larger bagged cylinder vacuum on the market with lightweight attachments/ features.

So for example, in the UK especially, the commercial canister of choice is our happy smiling Numatic Henry. Here's what he looks like (there's even a female version in pink, which has been popular with lady buyers) in commercial mode - the wheels at the back are slightly bigger and he has a bigger bumper low down: The next version is the UK market domestic model which has bigger wheels, put plastic and rubber coated, slightly larger, fit flush but lacks the low bumper. Weight wise the commercial version weighs 9kg, the domestic version weighs 8kg and the trolley with Henry underneath is around 20kg. Now, put that into perspective - what would you rather have - heavy trolley with vacuum permanently bolted (carrying it up stairs would be a nightmare!) or the lightweight design as originally intended?









On the K series I prefer the lighter standard Straight T bar parquet brush and that's because the K series as you may know, is a lightweight baby vac. This, again is because we Brits - and most of Europe - prefer lighter canister vacuums with just as light attachments on the other end. On the other hand, for cleaning our marble floors I find the Deluxe brush tool just as effective, especially on the end of the Felix upright or the D series. I don't tend to use the Parquet Deluxe a lot when I use the Felix - just by turning off the brush bar on the ET-1 ensures a quick and rapid clean once the suction is increased.

When it comes to cleaning carpeted stairs, before I purchased the D2 Total, I was used to using the 1.8 metre hose on the K1 Premium - I have an older 1800 watt model compared to the 2100 watt model now on the UK market and the improved model also has a bigger/longer hose at 2.1 metres. When it comes to tackling stairs however, I used the existing hose from the K1 Premium and the X series extendable 3 metre hose tagged onto the handle piece. Then for carpeting stairs I always use the mini turbo brush or crevice tool. And to store all the attachments I carry the cloth bag with me if I know that I'm going to do a big cleaning session.

SEBO Parquet Brush #6391DA (Wessel-Werke D 300) vs. SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG...Initial impressions favor the #7200DG by a large margin. The wheels of the #6391DA would dislodge from their well tracks from time to time, the wider and partially shrouded wheels of the #7200DG prevent such annoyances. Additional advantages of the #7200DG over the #6391DA include softer bristles set within a spring loaded mechanism to provide for some degree of self-leveling across hard surfaces and a fully articulated swivel neck which virtually eliminates brush lift. Brush strip release tab for ease of maintenance. Lower brush profile of the #7200DG is more effective in repelling the accumulation of hair and debris within the bristles (reduced tendency for the bristle ends to splay). Superior edging. Brush strips are placed closer to the edges, particularly the rear strip. This is noticeable in and around corners. Greater bristle surface area, rear brush funneling action and a narrower debris channel which focuses suction all appear to provide for greater cleaning action. And unlike the #6391DA, the side wheels do not interfere with tool mobility as they are located rearwards of the brushes themselves.

Aside from our own personal experience, we also examined a number of #7200DG brushes set out as floor samples at our local retailer. Drawbacks of the #7200DG? Not nearly as lightweight, nimble, or agile as the #6391DA for use as a multi-surface duster. Though advertised as dark grey, the plastic shade of the tool is closer to that of middle gray. As such, it does not match the existing set of onboard accessories as well as the darker shade of grey found on the #6391DA. Screened imprints are prone to marring leading to the potential loss of aesthetic appeal. Not as effective with larger debris. The lower brush profile of the #7200D lends itself to pushing such items around. Workaround is a quick lift and drop. A flick of the wrist allows the #6391DA to engulf such particles with greater ease. The #7200DG cannot be parked upright. Where we had once envisioned using only one of the two brushes exclusively, we now see that the two are complementary. Both have their place in our home of engineered wood, marble, granite and porcelain tile flooring.

It was disappointing that SEBO America failed to offer the D4 Premium package with an ET-2. And now that we have had the opportunity to pit the two parquet offerings against one another, it is an even greater disappointment that the #7200DG was not included over the #6391DA. D4 Premium? Not quite. Sans ET-2 and #7200DG, the D4 Premium set is more akin to a D4 Deluxe.

The bristles on the standard brush however are longer than the Deluxe version. I take your point about the different brush heads. Lightweight is important to me though - one of the reasons to why I prefer cylinder vacuums over the upright types.

Updated observations...Versus the Miele Capricorn (parquet vs. parquet), we prefer the SEBO Premium Parquet Brush #7200DG to the Miele SBB300 Parquet Floor Brush. While the #7200DG is not nearly as spry and mobile as the SBB300, it does a much better job of picking up heavier particulates. Our testbed of debris included cut strands of 12 AWG wire and small pebbles of varying weights. Construction debris of such nature is the norm in our home and not the exception. YMMV, of course. The failure of the SB300 to match the #7200DG in pickup is likely attributed (at least in part) to the relatively deep and wide grooves of the SB300 brush strips. These open cutouts are sized to where the partial vacuum state at the head of the tool is reduced and volume flow is lessened. Larger, heavier debris is engulfed, but not picked up. Compounding this loss is the greater channel area between the front and rear brushes. The #7200DG has a much narrower debris channel which serves to better focus suction towards the nozzle opening. Bottom line is that the #7200DG succeeded with heavier particulates where the SB300 would often fail outright.