Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Today I fortuitously stopped at the local Oreck dealer. 

Mike, the owner of several Oreck franchises and a few multi-brand stores had brought his new Edge upright from home, as stock had not arrived yet.

It has a more powerful motor, with a true  floating head. LED lights, infinite speed control AND and on-board stretch hose with a permanently attached telescopic crevice tool that is automatically active when the handle is in the upright position.  It lacks the Pilot's pivot head and the Halo's germ killing light. A model incorporating all three features is under development.  It is still easy to push, although it weighs 10 lb and requires a bit more effort than previous models.

There is a commercial OBT upright made by Stein (Sebo) that is very nice at only 450.00.  Oreck WILL be offering a bagless upright, but dealer participation is optional.  The new canister is color matched to the Edge and designed to be leaned on as the user vacuums stairs. Odd looking bare floor/crevice tool, no swivel neck. The bristles fold in to form the crevice tool, and the wand is inserted into a neck that curves more than 60 and less than 90 degrees, much like the OLD bare floor tools made of wood with the metal neck screwed on. A turbo tool is included and a dusting brush.

A cute little bagless canister is available for 49.99  Oreck has increased market share and has 89% brand recognition as a vacuum cleaner. They have become #1in  air purifier sales. (Mike did not say if that was dollar volume, or units or both.

The price of the Edge and matching canister will be about 750.00

Oreck is still marketing, still developing product, and still building a loyal customer base.

Dont know about you Venson, but when it comes to emptying, you have to be careful; dust with water in it can clog drains although I'd imagine most would either dump the dusty water down the toilet or chuck it in the garden.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacumanuk,

I always dumped Rexair and Rainbow water pans at the toilet.    Everything goes down and later washing and rinsing of the separator and water pan at the kitchen sink -- sacralige to some -- was one, two, three.

Venson

Venson wrote:
To me bagged means the dirt is contained within a disposable sack (paper, clothlike, whatever) that can be removed from the vacuum and dropped into the trash.  I've never used a Filter Queen, but my impression is that it's a lot like emptying a shop vac.  By my definition, I consider a vacuum with a cloth shake out bag to be "bagless" because it doesn't have a disposable paper bag. 

Severus wrote:

Hi,

No disagreement in that Filter Queen does hold dust gathered loose in its collection bin.  What I meant is that bagless as we speak of it today, Dyson as an instance, implies that there is no additional cost beyond the purchase price.  With Filter Queen there definitely is because of the requirement for replacement of used filtering filtering medium with new upon each emptying. 

As far as I recall per industry jargon, cloth bags are listed as permanent bags and non-reusable bags made of paper, etc., are "disposable".  By way of process of collection, a permanent-bagged Electrolux XXX is bagged as it uses a bag to trap the dust and dirt it takes in. 

Other cleaners like Fairfax, Lewyt and Silver King (back in the day), also emulated Filter Queen by employing flat or cone shaped filters above or in the collection bin.  All those filters had tobe purchased on a regular basis.  Nilfisk and Hitachi, I believe, still provide a model or two with cleanable and reusable cloth filters and collection bins  that may fit them in the bagless category as in their case there's no cost beyond purchase.

Best,

Venson

Severus, Venson & all

Interesting perspectives on bagged and bagless.  To add too, paper bags inside the cloth in the 50's brands and models before paper alone where either could be the dust containment.  Not sure how these would be categorized by today's perspective.  Tho we have the same today [actaully early 2000's].  HOOVER's dual V with bin/bag and both. 

I still use a Hoover Swingette with cloth and replacement N style paper bags.  That is until the bag supply ends.

Not sure any other bagless/quasi bagless brand made the selling point of saving money w/o using paper bags save Lewyt which went away for good. 

Carmine D.

There have been statements made to the effect that all vacuum bags clog the minute they collect dirt. The new bags made with the cloth like filter material maintain a very high percentage of initial suction and airflow a they fill, approximately 95%, much higher that the old single layer filter bags.  Miele and others have independent lab test results to back up their claims

Yes but dont forget even though there are high filtration bags on the market, Miele have also upped the ante in power. That's why if you try a paper bag in a current high powered Miele, the suction will burst the paper bag even if it doesn't get a chance to clog up with much dust. So even with a bag OR bagless filter on board, the dust has to clog up initially. Such improvements in paper bags that take longer to clog are one thing, they still clog don't they? Is there an alternative or should be considering water collecting vacuums?

vacmanuk wrote:

It's a fallacy that vacuums are only effective if the suction is constant.  Vacuums can work quite well over a range of suction/air flows.  Unless you're picking up drywall powder or some other very fine powder exclusively, the suction should be more than adequate over the life of the bag (follow manufacturer's directions).  Given that I have a dog in the house, each time I vacuum, I'm actually picking up additional filter material.  Dirt and dust sticks to the dog hair and carpet fibers that are picked up inside the bag.  My Royal Powercast has an indicator light that is supposed to go on when the suction drops below an optimum level.  the light has never gone on during normal use.  I can stick my hand over the end of the hose and block air flow to make the light go on, so I'm assuming that it actually works.  I'm assuming the Powercast is a pretty good vacuum because when the Rainbow vacuum salesman tried to get dirt out of my carpet, he got nothing. 

I have a hard time believing from my experience that a bagless machine, who's filters, screens and bins gather massive amounts of dust, retain maximum suction at all times.

vacmanuk wrote:

The questions to ask are: 

• Is the increase suction power due to the increased bag size?  Maintaining constant/better suction over varying degrees of bag fills?  And/or both?  I suspect both.
• Will installing a MIELE 3.7 qt bag [retired S4 line] in a MIELE made for 4.8 qt [S2/S5] capacity cause a bag to burst?

Carmine D.