Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Today I fortuitously stopped at the local Oreck dealer. 

Mike, the owner of several Oreck franchises and a few multi-brand stores had brought his new Edge upright from home, as stock had not arrived yet.

It has a more powerful motor, with a true  floating head. LED lights, infinite speed control AND and on-board stretch hose with a permanently attached telescopic crevice tool that is automatically active when the handle is in the upright position.  It lacks the Pilot's pivot head and the Halo's germ killing light. A model incorporating all three features is under development.  It is still easy to push, although it weighs 10 lb and requires a bit more effort than previous models.

There is a commercial OBT upright made by Stein (Sebo) that is very nice at only 450.00.  Oreck WILL be offering a bagless upright, but dealer participation is optional.  The new canister is color matched to the Edge and designed to be leaned on as the user vacuums stairs. Odd looking bare floor/crevice tool, no swivel neck. The bristles fold in to form the crevice tool, and the wand is inserted into a neck that curves more than 60 and less than 90 degrees, much like the OLD bare floor tools made of wood with the metal neck screwed on. A turbo tool is included and a dusting brush.

A cute little bagless canister is available for 49.99  Oreck has increased market share and has 89% brand recognition as a vacuum cleaner. They have become #1in  air purifier sales. (Mike did not say if that was dollar volume, or units or both.

The price of the Edge and matching canister will be about 750.00

Oreck is still marketing, still developing product, and still building a loyal customer base.

CarmineD wrote:

CR is taking a real risk allowing consumers to provide vacuum reviews that in many cases whine about their vacuum not doing as well as it should in CR's tests.   As a famous radio host says, it's a real career risk to turn the job over to amateurs.  Amateurs do NOT use carefully designed studies with strict standardization of methodology and replication.   Although youtube.com has been flooded with vacuum comparison videos, I've yet to see one that provides meaningful tests to compare 2 vacuums.   Most people just aren't familiar with what it takes to design a valid experiment with randomization, replication, and standardization of procedures.  They assume that if one vacuum picks up dirt that was missed by the first vacuum, that the second one is better.  Since no vacuum removes all of the dirt from carpeting, it's just not a valid test.   A fair test gives each vacuum an equal opportunity to perform under the same conditions.  We can argue about what the standard conditions should be, and whether CR should make modifications, but CR's testing provides meaningful results. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus,

Though I was most surprised that Consumer Reports had begun to allow the like, I was extrremely pleased that consumer reviews were being included.  Though not every user may sound like the world's smartest I think it helps promote balance when they get to say, "I like this but I don't like that.  This inclusion of opinion also removes CR from an almost sacrosanct and unapprochable position as regards the general public -- depending upon whom you talk to -- to merely being a consumer friendly organization that's been testing things a good while.

There are any number of vacuums that I have owned and would never buy again.  What's interesting it that, yes, there those who love the same thing I hate and swear they're just the best thing since white bread. 

Not just at CR but all over the place I have been browsing customer reviews and have always felt I come away with a better perspective of the product in mention AND people.  Yes, there are the whiners but I find them easy to overlook.  There are also the ravers who I find a little too ebullient to believe.  I do not claim to be able to tell who's a nitwit user or who's a manufacturer's shill but I feel I can effectively recognize legitimate comment, positive or negative, without much help.

Sears and some other brick-and-mortar/online selling venues also allow consumer reviews that are sometimes quite complementary and sometimes highly the opposite.  Looking at the business side of things I can't imagine why they allow it because there are often negative comments regarding items sold by x-venue.  Why have them at all and leave the public to assume that all is hunky-dory productwise?

Online shopping is more and more becoming a way of making household purchases but the same as trekking form store to store, listening, looking and comparing -- it's still a lot of work.  And who am I to believe? Nobody has a mouth that's a prayerbook or a butt that's a stack of bibles.  I'd much rather hear a vendor's sales spiel plus go through whatever user reviews I can find and also depend on a reliable source like CR for testing information.  I also use pricegrabber.com and nextag.com to locate items I want at the best price.  All those as a combined resource can be very helpful for making, if not always the best then better purchase choices.

Best,

Venson

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

Dealer exclusive as in ORECK dealers or any/all independent vacuum store dealers?

Carmine D.

SEVERUS, Venson et al:

I vote on 360 degree feedback [legitimate users, obvious shills, idiot users, and industry experts] rather than one way from CR.  But, with this comes more risks and responsibilities.  CR should be more explicit with its tests and results.  Dare I say it, consider industry experts' opinions too.

Carmine D.

A quick aside on the vacuum that goes first.  I'm amazed after all these years that youngins, so called pros, still push this poop to sell their favorite brand and model, whatever it may be.  As recent as last week I encountered this sales myth with what else?  You got it, a DC28.  I was told by the seller that in all store and customer tests done, whatever vacuums were used, including an array of dysons both new and old [even the new all white DC25], left behind rug dirt which only a DC28 with deep cleaning got up.  Due to what else: It's latest airmuscle technology.  I specifically asked him if he did the rug tests the other way around.  Oh, yes, yes.  We did it the other way too using a DC28 first.  The otehrs can't pick up anymore dirt.  Oh, I said.  Okay and nodded ny head in agreement.   

Well, I let the youngin go on.  Asked some questions about filters and cleaning maintenance.  Let him go thru the motions with the attachments.  I noticed the store's DC28 had dirt in.  So, I removed the bin while we talked, and I hit the tab to dump it.  I played the I didn't know card with the sales person.  Much as I expected he would, he went scrambling for a remote outlet and powered up the DC28.  I made sure he and I used the lowest setting on the DC28 at the last cleaning and went back and forth over the rug until we got it all.  Now, you know what I did next.  Yup.  I said to him.  You know before I plunk down $599 plus tax on this vacuum would you mind if I take this DC14 and run it over the same rug.  Just to see what happens.  His face dropped.  You know what happened next.  He powered up the DC14 and voila, he picked up more dirt on the rug after vacuuming thoroughly with a DC28.  I watched his reaction and believe I made a point that he will not soon forget.  He instantly knew he lost the sale.  Hopefully he learned a lesson, even if it was the hard way.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi,

This is what I'm talking about.  You walk into a store and get fairytales. As always, the best consumer is the imformed consumer. It never hurts to keep an open mind and thoroughly research products you think you may be interested in buying.

By the way did the DC28 handle well at its lowest height setting?

Venson

Venson wrote:

You get some fairy tales from inexperienced and untrained employees.  You get deceptive advice from biased posters on the web.  However, visit an indie and you will always learn that the brand he sells is the best without doubt.  The confusing part is they do not all sell the same brand.  How can all brands be the best?

I am sure you meant a correctly informed consumer. 

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Fine for me.  But, I can see the point made by some reviewers and Consumer Reports that some users would find the DC28 difficult to push and pull if you are doing alot of rug vacuuming.  Hence, the reason IMHO that dyson DC28 defaults when powered up to the medium setting.  In the medium setting, the DC28 did not get up all the dirt on the carpet but is easier to push and pull.  Only the low setting worked for the removal of dirt on the low carpeting.  A reason I dumped the dirt bin on the store carpeting and apologized rather than allowing the sales person to use a specially made throw rug in the store for comparative vacuum tests.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hardsell, you make some good points.  "Best" for you, isn't necessarily "best" for me.   What vacuums would you sell if you were in the business?

HARDSELL wrote:

..
Hardsell

   I gotta say i agree with you.... consumer should research/do homework before they buy...knowingly deceptive dealers/posters hurt those that really care and try.

But at the same time the indie/employee poster can give an exp first hand point of view on the models/types that have stood the test of time and what is overpriced hype.

turtle