Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hey all, I have a burning moral issue; I LOVE Miele vacuums, and other bagged machines (Kirby, Electrolux, Sebo, Sweden Electrolux), but HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT do the bags and filters make on the environment?  ESPECIALLY Miele with all that unecessary plastic and metal on their bags and A LOT of unnecessary plastic on their filters?


What's your guys's opinion on this subject?

Hertz wrote:

Can't answer in comparison to Miele as have never used one, but the EnviroCare bags are very good.  They appear to be a little more restrictive than the "clothlike" bags in Riccar Surpalite.  As I have stated before, I judge the restriction in a purely non-scientific manner.  The bag is firmer when squeezed, which is telling me that the air is not escaping as quickly.  My methods may be flawed, but works for me.

Venson wrote:
Whatever anyone does, do not reuse disposable vacuum cleaner bags.  While some may think that bag makers want you to purchase their bags, for their sake, it is not true.  When the bag fills, fine dust will embed in the pores of the bags.  There will be a point, when the bag will clog.  So when you remove the dirt, there is still going to be dirt in the pores.  Knowing the habits of many vacuum cleaner owners, I cannot see them knowing when to change the bag after they have reused it.  They will think it does not need to be changed, because they do not see any dirt in the bag.  They do not hear the change in the motor as it struggles to move air.

HOOVER did have the Handisac, that could be reused a few times.  If your bag package says to not reuse, which they all do, do not reuse.  Paper bags were created to make dirt removal, from the vacuum cleaner easier and cleaner.

If you do not want to pay the price for some vacuum cleaner bags, there are vacuum cleaners that do not have expensive upkeep.

So remember what I said, Do not reuse disposable vacuum cleaner bags.

Hertz wrote:
Hertz - sorry to disagree with you, but Do you know anything about Miele? Do you know that they recycle the plastic from old machines to make components such as the grid flaps? Sebo also do the same. How environmentally recycleable friendly do you want? The Intensive Clean bags have a lot more plastic going on, including the pull/corrugated strip to close the dust channel on the bag. Miele have done well here with their later bags in minimising plastic.

I find the cheaper paper pleated HEPA cartridge filter blocks fitted to many Electrolux products as wasteful - the grids can't be removed because they are bonded and the paper pleats therefore can't be burnt off. The reason to why there is a plastic grid is down to the suction of the modern motor. The 1200 watts and 1400 watt older Miele models that use the brown paper bags have cardboard holders. Put that bag into a 1600 watt Miele model that has improved seals and you'll find the bag will burst and also come off the cardboard collar. Cardboard collars can only be applied to vacuums that have lower rated powered motors. Sebo bags for their high powered C and K series also have plastic grid holders bonded onto the paper.

vacmanuk wrote:

Yes, I do know quite a bit about Miele, considering I did a 6 page powerpoint on them for school in German class, but I did not know that. That's pretty incredible, and really makes a difference. Very cool. Where do you find this stuff out, by the way? Finally; That's BULL CRAP about the cardboard collars not being able to handle the higher suction; *MORE* powerful vacuums in Europe such as Sweden Lux's use cardboard collared bags which hold up just fine, and these machines have crazy 2200W motors in them. No, the only reason Miele uses plastic would be for improved rigidity, though completely unnecessary.

Mike_W wrote:

Mike, I'm glad you issued the warning but there will always be some people who'll try to defy the laws of physics.  I had a relative whom, no matter how you  tried to persuade her that re-using disposable vac bags was not a good practice, always gave in to her sense of thrift.  She did in an Electrolux and a Filter Queen I'd gifted her and several other machines she bought herself.

A lot of people do not have a sensitivity to vac motor sounds I think.  For them the time to change the bag is when their machine absolutely won't pick anything up.  Never good.

Venson

DIsposable bags are for one time only. As one person remarked the pores get clogged with the fine dust. I have had quite a few people come in with motors getting hot  or burned up and they wondered why. These people had tried to extend their bag use by cutting the bottom of the bag and then stapling them shut. The cost of a motor was far more expensive they found than putting in a fresh one when needed. Electrolux Automatics were designed for this very reason. The way Electrolux customers got around the Automatic was turn it off and it cost them.

                                                                                                 Procare

procare wrote:

Hi procare,

Pennywise and pound foolish, it' appears to always be the same story.  Got a question though.  Do you think canisters with by-pass motors (meaning armature, etc., are cooled by a source separate of the suction air stream) would fare better under the same circumstances?

Best,

Venson

Hi,

For the genuinely concerned, the follow link leads to an article with some very useful ideas about recycling your old vacuum.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2386374_recycle-vacuum-cleaners.html

Venson

Hertz wrote:
Lucky you but that doesn't mean you know it all. Having WORKED FOR MIELE, Hertz I CAN ASSURE YOU if Miele wanted to they could still use cardboard collars - but they can't. I also have a degree in Science; biology and engineering. Why not test the theory yourself - buy a cardboard brown paper Miele bag and put it into a current vacuum that has 2000 watts; it won't last. You will find that the bag's collar will weaken and that the brown bag will burst. Trust me! Miele tested their synthetic bags well before Intensive Clean was the known name on the market of higher suction models and found that the material types don't burst due to the high suction and that the plastic grid holders are bonded tightly to the bags. Also Miele's recycling document used to be available to view on their German website and most of the grid holders underneath have the recycling sign on them. Infact most German companies take recycling very seriously and the UK have been one of the last countries in Europe to adopt recycling as much as the Germans, Italians and French.

I can't speak for Sweden's Electrolux bags, but the ones in the UK have cardboard holders and I don't think very much of them. The ones that have cardboard on them have rubber seals on the rim of the dust channel hole and can be used in vacuums with a 1700 watt motor. Here's what the bag looks like:




Having the vacuum that this bag fits to, despite the cardboard holder which bends over time, dust can't be sealed on this type of bag because there isn't a sealer on it. Now, interestingly enough, despite the HEPA filter by the motor Hertz, I can testify that dirt often escapes out of the bag, particularly if the cardboard weakens over time - if the bag had a plastic grid holder I don't think this would be an issue. NUMATIC who make the HENRY tub vacuums (and are also very popular in the UK) have always had double layer filtration bags with cardboard seals. However two years ago they brought out a synthetic dust bag that has a plastic collar - why plastic? Because it ensures that once it meets the dust channel, it stays put and has enough rigidity and flexibility to the plastic, that it ensures no dust ever escapes.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi vacmanuk,

What's your feeling as regards the advantage of plastic and synthetics for vacuum bags over paper products that rely on natural resources, trees, etc., to be produced?

By the way, I came across this article today -- http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/the-environment/go-green-news/2010/04/30/15-tonnes-of-rubbish-cleared-in-a1-clean-up-72703-26350588/ 

Venson