Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

CarmineD wrote:

More accurately, not maybe, but you are unaware. 

I know the vacuum brands Lucky1 sells by his posts here.  It just takes reading and keeping up with Lucky1's posts, which you most likely haven't done. 

I don't ask the prices of these vacuum products because I know that as nationally recognized vacuum store brands these prices are pretty much standard for the industry within a specified hi-lo range.  I also know personally and professionally that vacuum consumers who buy from independent vacuum cleaner stores do not make their purchase decisions solely on price.  I'd say with 100 percent assurance that price is not the most important factor.  It is customer service: which is priceless.

Carmine D.

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I’m asking for 5-10 minutes of Lucky’s and Mole’s time.

Please...
1)  Brand names/models/prices of the 5 top sellers, w/ manufacturer suggested annual belt/belt service and bag replacement costs?
2)  Brand names/models of top 3 highest priced vacuums, w/ manufacturer suggested annual belt/belt service and bag replacement costs?
3)  What does it cost in annual bag replacements to maintain 100% suction strength?
4)  Where is the money going?...Why do these [basic-in-function] vacuums have such high price tags?  Is the money going towards advertising, towards R&D, towards testing, towards patent protection, towards launching/supporting new innovations?


DIB

DIB,

The expense, or lack thereof, in annual operating costs is of small consequence if the user finds their vacuum unpleasant and clumsy to use and maintain.  A bagless vacuum
for someone with allergies, who must empty the container him/her self is ludicrous.  There is no easy way to completely avoid contact with the dust, even with emptying in a closed
trash bag.  The container still needs to be washed and dried.  How much easier and faster to simply close the seal on a hepa bag and toss it, and quickly install a replacement!

The real test of Dyson's staying power in the marketplace is whether he can keep his market share. 8,000 cleaners/day in US alone in this economy ain't too shabby.  But the comparison
of operating costs is only valid if the customer who is contemplating the purchase deems it so.  The cost of bags/ filters against the cost of the machine is not the correct one. One does not calculate the cost of oil changes against he cost of the automobile, but as an investment to prevent premature replacement.  The cost of bags, etc, are more accurately compared to the cost of carpet replacement, as a clean carpet will last longer as we all know.  The cost of bags is insignificant to one who has breathing difficulties triggered by contact with the dust. So the comparison you asked for is of no import save to the purchaser of the vacuum cleaner. 

We are approaching the point where bagged vacuums will be an oddity to younger people, like phonograph records. I stopped in to see my vac shop friend today, and witnessed a customer refer to her bagless vacuum as a "canister" vacuum. She was totally unaware that vacuums other than uprights had ver been invented.  She was only aware of bagged vacuums at all, because her first one was given to her by a relative who had purchased, as she called it a "canister" vacuum. (Dirt Devil).   She concluded that after having a "canister" vacuum that she wanted to buy a vacuum that used bags, and she was willing to pay a premium price (she chose a Miele S7 at 599.00 on sale.) She was happy  to learn that bagged vacuums were still being made and after her experience with a bagless vacuum she wanted to buy something effective, quiet, easy to use, hepa filtration, and of long lasting quality, and that used bags. The cost of a 5 pkg of bags and a hepa filter/yr was of no concern to her given the increased health and convenience of the bagged system.

Regardless of what our beliefs and preferences are here on the forum, what matters is the customer getting what they want and need, at a price they are willing to pay. Period.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

As I posted above WRT your questions to Lucky1, the same applies to MOLE.  If you keep up with his posts here, you'd know the brands and you'd know, if you have a basic knowledge of the industry, the hi-lo price ranges of these models.

The point which obviously escapes you is that the products and their prices are not the primary business of the vacuum cleaner store owners and operators.  These change over time.  Especially over the many years that MOLE and Lucky 1 have been in the vacuum business.

The key characteristic which promotes their businesses, keeps their customers coming back year after year, and grows their businesses over time is not the products they sell and their prices.  It's customer service. 

To quote myself again:  Technique [customer service] trumps technology [products/prices] everytime.

Carmine D.

Lucky and mole go after Dyson and those who buy Dyson religiously and vigorously.  Turnabout is fair play, I’d like a chance to pull their commodity-crap vacuums apart, their punitive-prices apart and their hype apart.

You’re in the way Carmine.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

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I’m asking for 5-10 minutes of Lucky’s and Mole’s time.

Please...
1)  Brand names/models/prices of the 5 top sellers, w/ manufacturer suggested annual belt/belt service and bag replacement costs?
2)  Brand names/models of top 3 highest priced vacuums, w/ manufacturer suggested annual belt/belt service and bag replacement costs?
3)  What does it cost in annual bag replacements to maintain 100% suction strength?
4)  Where is the money going?...Why do these [basic-in-function] vacuums have such high price tags?  Is the money going towards advertising, towards R&D, towards testing, towards patent protection, towards launching/supporting new innovations?


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I am in the right way of thinking and unfortunately, you're not.  The answers to your questions, which you should know and not have to ask if you paid attention here, are irrelevant.  I've made the point several times to you.  Trebor too.  As well as Lucky1.  Yet, you still don't get it.  It's customer service [I forego adding the operative adjective] for Lucky1 and MOLE that makes their vacuum businesses successful.  Not the products and prices which are incidental.  

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote: Lucky1 wrote:
Lucky,
When you go after Dyson owners - most would consider this going over the top.  When I know there are hard working people and elderly people purchasing and loving their Dyson's and you calling them saps...  well, it triggered something in me.  Now, I'm not interested in your scope or point of view of how the industry should or should not run or how James Dyson should or should not run his business.  I am interested in giving your wares and price points and [lack of] technologies a working-over as you freely and unashamedly do here with Dyson (and yes, I am baiting you).


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

The wares [your word] are not the key in the vacuum cleaner store business.  The vacuum and floorcare products that Lucky1, MOLE and all the other successful indies sell are dependent on their business locations and clientele.  The overriding business characteristic that they all have in common is providing excellent customer satisfaction [aka customer service].  This BTW is Trebor's point in his post too.  They have to stand behind their new/rebuilt products, all repairs, and parts sales with personal and professional integrity.  Else, they could not be/stay in business.  Do you know/have any instances of Lucky1 and MOLE not doing this?  If so, you can work them over.  If not, you really have nothing to say against their business practices and products.

Carmine D. 

DIB and Lucky1,

Gentlemen,

With respect to both of you, neither of you has truly addressed the issue of the DC28 brush roller.  Stiff, as in whose definition? Remember the original Dyson brush rollers, (the smooth
metal rods with the long soft bristles, followed by the small spiral plastic ones, again with widely spaced soft bristles) ? If those are the standard of comparison, then the DC 28 may not damage carpet. On the other hand, if the bristles are as stiff as the Windtunnel's there could be a problem on some carpets. There have already been issues with regard to using some Dysons on some carpets, yet there has been consumer demand for better pet hair pickup or this new model would not have been created. It certainly is not for the European market that this was developed. So give Dyson some credit. He is at least paying some attention to the likes/dislikes of the purchasers of his products. 

DIB,

I am nonplussed by your description of customers who buy Dyson "religiously"?   A 400.00 plus vacuum should not need replacing often enough for a buyer to be called a "religious" purchaser, unless they are praying it will be better that the one they are replacing too soon? I have nothing against Dysons. For people who like them and don't think they are overpriced for what they get, they are a perfectly acceptable choice in a vacuum cleaner. Evidently 8,000 people a day in the US think so, enough to plunk down 400.00 plus, most of them without actually trying one out. As long as that pace continues, and most of them stay sold, and people buy another Dyson when they need a new vacuum, Dyson will have nothing to worry about.  If the pace falls off, or a large number are returned, or people stray from repeat purchases, that could put a crimp in Dyson's future. And it matters not one whit what any of us say, or our opinions about what each other says, the market will tell the story. Period.

Dyson's major venues are the 'net and BBR's, Dyson's choice from the get go.  If every vac shop on the continent refused to sell and/or service Dyson, or bad mouthed Dyson, it isn't really going to effect the outcome immediately because most people buy their vacuums off the net or at a BBR. Consumer satisfaction will ultimately determine Dyson's survival or demise. If Dyson chooses to consider the vac shop dealer as irrelevant to his success or failure in the marketplace, he has the right to test that assumption. If he drops his price point another 100.00-200.00 or so across the board, he may well be able to flourish alongside the likes of TTI and Bissell without regard or concern for the independent dealer/shop owner.  We shall all have to wait and see.

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Hello Trebor:

In deference to Lucky1, the issue is not his to address.  It's dyson's responsibility.  Unfortunately, as we all know, most vacuum consumers need to be shown the "ins" and "outs" of vacuum product.  In the case of dyson's DC28, demo-ers need to emphasize the importance of seting the proper rug height adjustment with different carpet styles and thicknesses.  Recall for over 7 years, until the dyson airmuscle technology, dyson users were told the dyson rug nozzle head was floating and self-adjusting.  As tho this was a new technology for the industry rather than a failed concept from more than 4 decades ago that HOOVER had to deal with on the Dials.  Now, dyson has to get DC28 users to be conscious of proper rug height adjustments.  Hard to do when your primary buying clientele are big box retail shoppers who don't read user manuals.

Carmine D.