Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Thought the Dyson discussion board would be interested in reading a small article about the Tacony Museum. Also Carmine's old friend.....

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/hit-the-road-jack/hit-the-road-jack/2009/08/new-museum-opens-at-st-james-on-historic-route-66/

mole wrote:

These were not returns.  They were defective products.  The first was a Toshiba CRT TV which qualified for in home service.  A part had to be ordered.  After two weeks of waiting for the part the repairman came to my house and installed it.  That did not resolve the problem in full.  Repairman said he had seen this failure before and it was better to replace the TV.  He called the store from my home and had another TV delivered that same day (Saturday).

Next was a 55 in. Pioneer Elite that sold for over $5000.  There was a known issue some of these sets getting green lines across the screen.  Repairman fixed with parts that Pioneer had determined were needed.  A few weeks later this developed again (occasionally).  By then Pioneer had developed a different solution/fix.  I decided to wait and see if it was a success as I had a five year warranty.  Another month or two and it was found that this fix did not cure the problem and a third Pioneer fix was made available.  I talked to the store manager about my concern of this occuring after my warranty expired.  His suggestion was to exchange for a different TV.  I exchanged for a Panasonic DLP.  It is going strong after 5 years.

An indie would have patched until the factory said no more.  I would then be stuck with a clunker.  Simply being an indie does not mean that you always know more than the consumer or that you will hot try to convince the consumer to be content with the POS that he sold you because you should not expect it to do all that you paid for.

HARDSELL wrote:
  Certainly not all, but many would fall under this guideline.

HS:

Let me proceed very slowly for you.........

Under the BB ESP the first option exercised is ALWAYS to repair.  If a repair is not possible, then a product replacement.  With the same [if still available at BB]/comparable product in value.  The BB ESP kicks in after the manufacturer's guarantee/warranty expires.  If you have a 3 year plan for $19, you paid BB for the 2 years dyson covers and got one for the price of 3 at $19.  Now, even you can figure that out if you go back and take the time to read and assuming you can comprehend.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Name some DIB!  In fact, name ONE!  Can you?  Od is this more of the same meaningless dyson dribble with no evidence. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

If they want to keep their jobs in a bad economy?  Yes, they do!  The guests and visitors to Las Vegas are quick to complain if they are not treated/served in a manner worthy of the city's history and reputation.

Now.... I suppose if I lived in a rural, back woods country locale like you, they wouldn't.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Very true MOLE. 

• Firstly, indy's don't sell defective products because they know the good ones from the bad, unlike big box stores and their buyers. 
• Two, indy's stand behind the products they sell, so customers don't have to pay extra for an insurance policy [aka: extended service plan]. 
• Three, if indy's sold defective products, with worthless warranties, and didn't stand behind their sales, they wouldn't stay in business very long. 
• Lastly, the indy's are the back bone of the vacuum industry.  Just ask James who is repairing his defective products in/out of warranty that require big box stores to sell ESP's to insure the customers' product purchases.

Carmine D.

Perhaps an independent could explain what they do with returns and whether they have to absorb the loss.    My understanding, which could be wrong, is that big stores like Walmart have the ability to dictate terms to manufacturers and the manufacturers share in the cost of returns.  Presumably, an independent has less negotiating power due to smaller volume.  I would assume that a return is repaired if necessary and sold as a used vacuum, possibly at a loss.  Any comments?

Hi Severus:

Excellent points with good questions. 

I can't speak for all the retailers.  Too many.  All retail chains, even stores within the same chains, have their own procedures.  Depends on the volume of their sales and volume of their returns and the terms they negotiate with the maker.  Several years ago, a VP for TARGET claimed vacuum returns were it's highest return cost item.  As a result, TARGET stores contracted with Indy's to buy up the vacuum returns in order to defray the high costs of new vacuum returns.

WRT Indy's: They eat the loss on straight out returns for refunds/credits regardless of time passed.  Some charge a restock fee up to 20 percent, if still under warranty, and working properly.  But the customer returns it dissatisfied.  The indy's, if they are authorized dealers, get a rake off on the makers' parts and have to repair/re-sell as used.  The Indy's can't give a maker warranty on the resale but have to warranty the used product at their own expense.  The proceeds of the used product sale are equal to the product sale's price plus the restock fee received minus all the costs of sale including any warranty repairs after the sale.  Double, triple, whammy.  Lose the new product sale, have to invest additional time, effort and money to resell the product as used, and have to warranty at their own expense and eat the warranty costs of repairs.  If the Indy isn't authorized by the maker, it has to scout around and find the best prices for replacement/genuine parts which diminish the products' profits on resell.

Hence, the reason indy's are particular with what they sell, why they sell it, and when they take it back and why.  If they sell high priced junk that fails to please and/or iweak performers, they inevitably get the products back.  Huge headaches costing more time and/or money to resell.  This is the predictament that many Indy's faced with dyson's DC11.  A lemon.  Dyson forced these on dealers as part of the dealership franchise.  When these lemons came back, Indy's had to suck it up and eat the losses. 

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:
The funny part of it is, manufacturers DON'T have to KowTow to BBS... they just do. Lured by fast profit they think they are negotiating from a weak stance and the BBS, promising huge numbers, have the upper hand. If manufacturers believed in the POWER of their own RELIABLE BRAND NAME they could dictate to the BBS and both could make money instead of losing money long term.

Lucky1 wrote:
Hi Lucky1,

Believe me, I wholeheartedly agree but I do not have that much faith in the makers of a good part of what is on the market. They've got quick, easily acquired profit on their minds and it is obvious in craftsmanship. Sadly, I think it remains all about buy low/sell for the highest the market will bear.

Besides which, what's to buy? How many vacuum makers are investing time in putting out product that is solidly theirs? Who even designs and makes their own PNs or tools any longer? Most of that kind of thing is coming from the same place. Only the names stamped on it are different and if that in the end is the only difference then a savvy shopper can do well for his or her self without worry over having to play the "name game".

There are NO vacuums in the higher price ranges as of late that I believe or even feel might match up to the price asked. As for the lesser priced, I think you buy and, reasonable care considered, may have hope for the best for your buck. The bargain lies in a decent price affording four or five years of use with minimal problems and good performance.

Venson