Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I just found this site. I really need to get a new vacuum cleaner. Right now I just have a Eureka Mighty Mite with a HEPA filter. I have recently taken in a long-haired chihuahua and a cat (for a friend who is not able to care for them any longer). I am allergic to (and have also grown very fond of) both the cat and dog and I also have quite bad dust, mold, and pollen allergies. I live in an older split level house: the two upper floors are bare wood with no rugs and the lower two floors are covered with wall-to-wall very-low-pile commercial carpet. The cat (bless her) is generally content to voluntarily stay in the basement all of the time with the exception of just one or two very brief morning strolls each day to the next two higher floors. She sheds what seems to a cat neophyte like myself to be an enormous amount of fur but I'm told by friends who are cat owners that it is a normal amount. The chihuahua just wants to be in the same room with me although I have kept her out of the bedrooms and bathroom on the top floor. I have looked at quite a few vacuum cleaners from the very inexpensive to Miele and Lindhaus and I still am unsure of what to get. I've never had to deal with pet hair and dander before. What would work best for pet hair and dander on low-pile commercial carpet and still be good for bare wood floors and have a good filtering system for allergens? I do know that I would like the self sealing type of bag that is in the Miele (and perhaps other brands?) because of my allergy problems. I can spend up to $850 if I have to but it would be much better for my budget to spend less. I'm sorry for the long-winded description. Advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

Hello Nette:

What is your preference in vacuums:  A canister with a power head nozzle and/or an upright with on-board attachments for above the floor cleaning?  Or do you prefer an upright only vacuum [no tools on board], and use the Eureka Mighty Mite for attachment cleaning?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

I'm more used to using a canister type but now I just want the best vacuum--canister or upright--for the job. I would use the MIghty Mite for attachment cleaning if an upright-only vacuum would be the best one for the job.

Hi Nette,

If you need to be economical keep the Mighty Mite -- as long as its working well. It should be great for doing your bare floors, upholstered furniture and taking care of other above the floor needs. Add a bagged clean-air upright with HEPA and onboard attachments to your cleaning arsenal. Low pile carpeting is usually pretty easy to clean and your pets are small as well. I think you should be able to find a decent upright without having to go to a great deal of expense. I saw a self-propelled Hoover today in Costco that I'd buy in a heartbeat if I wanted to save. Bag removal is easy enough and if you managed with your Mighty Mite they should prove no more or no less a problem to empty.

http://www.hoover.com/pdfs/manuals/UH50000.pdf

But if you like to shop . . .

Keep in mind that high expense usually enters the picture if you want a number of advantages and features like long warranties, little luxuries and extra convenience like self-sealing bags, filter change reminders and quiet operation.

I have a Miele Tango that I love. It performs wonderfully. The Miele disadvantage is that high-filtration bags run $16.00 and beyond for packs of four or five depending upon the model involved. Filter replacements can reach the $50 range. Optional doo-dads are often silly in price too. If you can keep a poker face, you should be able to land a better Miele upright for $800 bucks. If they won't see it your way -- tell them to keep it and look elsewhere.

You can download user manuals for current and past Miele models here:

http://miele.com/manuals/display_manuals.asp?nav=400&snav=455&tnav=460&oT=224&menu_id=61

Check out your local vac shops plus the line up at Sears for other options as well.

BUT allergies being part of the topic -- if your budget can allow and your not renting AND you plan to stay a while -- think on a central vacuum system as well. The good part here is that the vacuum's exhaust can be vented outside to the outside of your home. Thus, fine particulate matter that's been sucked up in no way gets back into your inside environment. Depending on the household, good central vacuums may only require emptying two or three times a year.

Some come with bags (which I personally don't see much point to unless venting to the outside is not feasible) and some versions are bagless which means you may have to bully a friend or loved one into emptying it for you every few months or wear a dust mask for the job.

However, you should know that instead of a unit to push or pull around you would have to deal with 25 to 30 feet of vacuum hose.

Venson

Venson, stop making so much sense, You know its bad for business

Nette wrote:

Hello Nette:

I vote with Venson and MOLE. 

HOOVER WT SP is the gold standard of carpet cleaning.  RATED NUMBER ONE by Consumer Reports in March 2009.  Along with a host of other HOOVER uprights ranked up there in the top 10.  Like the $80 HOOVER TEMPO.  Using HOOVER's 3M Filtrette bags would do the trick for the pets and allergies. 

One more suggestion, if you are not already familiar with ORECK's uprights you might take a look.  From the Silver series upright to the Platinum series, they work wonderfully for the requirements you stated above.  And also come with higher priced paper/cloth bags for HEPA rating.  Shop the ORECK sales on line/stores.  Recently the Silver series was on sale without all the extra giveaways [like the compact canister], just the upright, for $199.  It has one of the largest dirt bag capacities in the industry at over 6 quarts.  ORECK's comes with a free in home trial of 30 days.  If you don't like it, return it with no obligations at all.  Worth a look in the store if you have one close by.

BTW, MIELE and LINDHAUS are top shelf vacuums for quality and performance. 

Carmine D. 

Thank you Carmine and Venson for all the helpful info. It is tempting to go with a Miele just because I have to put on a dust mask and gloves and use antihistamine eyedrops whenever I change a regular vacuum cleaner bag. But it's something I've been doing for years so I can keep doing it if another vacuum is substantially better in regard to other factors: suction (picking up the pet hair) and filtration or is equivalent to Miele in regard to these factors but less expensive.

I am wondering about the lower-end upright Miele S7280s: Jazz, Salsa and Calypso. I understand the only difference between these vacuums is the color. I saw a couple of complaints about them on Amazon though: the complaints were about the machine not being as well built (pieces breaking off and funny noises) as other Mieles. They are about $150-$200 less than the Tango/Boleros. Are the Tangos/Boleros better built than the S7280s?

I did briefly try an Oreck at the vacuum store and it was definitely lighter to move than other vacuums. I will look into these vacuums some more.

Nette wrote:

Hi Nette:

The beauty of the ORECK bag is the self seal on the bag collar and docking platform for the bag.  Both work in concert to keep dust/dirt from leaking into the air during vacuum use and bag replacement.  My dear Wife has allergies and sinus problems.  We have a yellow lab that sheds year round.  She uses the ORECK with the regular CC bags.  No upgraded filter paper bags and we let the bag fill up.  No dander smell, no sinus and allergy flareups.  You may have to go with the more expensive HEPA rated bags.  But worth a look see and test.

Carmine D.

Nette wrote:
Hi Nette,

To the best of my knowledge, the lesser priced Miele uprights are the "same" save for the fact that the less expensive models use a dial mechanism to adjust speed. Again, try one out at a local vac shop to see what you think. These uprights are said to be okay for doing bare floors which still remains against my religion. Should you decide on the Jazz or similar models, also buy a generic bare floor tool plus an adapter that will allow you to fit it to the Miele wand. This should all add up to no more than 20 bucks. The extra-thrifty thing to do is just get the adapter and use the floor tool that came with your Mighty Mite.

Deep down I am a canister lover too but the Tango has allowed me to make exception. I do all the same stuff I've done with canisters I like. It's pretty easy to leave off rug cleaning and switch to above the floor tasks as you go. If you don't have a lot of furniture, etc., about the carpeted area in your home a good upright is usually a good deal. The best thing to do is kick the tires on one at your local vac shop.

As for complaints, stuff happens. However, though I may fuss about its silly pricing on certain things its products do come with long warranties and Miele does stand behind them. There is an available 800-number if you feel need to consult with Miele customer service directly.

If you're kind of good at arm wrestling, $500 to $550 would be considered a nice price for the Jazz.

If you decide you'd rather have a canister, think on the mid-size Riccar or Simplicity canisters with electric power nozzles. They are good and can be landed at prices well below that of comparable Miele canisters in local vac shops. (Let no one sell you on a cleaner with a turbo-nozzle for rug cleaning.)

Venson

Nette

Get a Miele cylinder - try EBay and see if you can get a discounted/but newish model. In the UK we have vacs that can be bought reconditioned. I don't know if they have that in the U.S/elsewere. The beauty of Miele is that you can custom build your own vacuum to your own requirements although Miele do make a Cat and Dog cylinder that comes with pet hair tools and a main turbo brush floor head. However on the basis that you have hard flooring I'd go for a basic spec Miele canister and then buy an optional HEPA filter cartridge. Whilst Miele also make charcoal filters the blue HEPA cartridge is better at keeping all allergens in. I currently have a Miele S4 compact canister with a HEPA cartridge fitted instead of the generic Super Air Clean filter. You can then buy a separate pet hair tool at a later date usually from Miele specialists and/or a hard floor brush for general use.

However since you have carpets as well check out Sebo's Felix upright/"medium size" stick vac. Although it can be used as a hand vac it has a much better use as an upright with a canister style swivel head. Sebo's Felix is also GHI and BAF approved and has a stop button on its electric floor head so you can use it on hard flooring. Sebo Felix is around $420 I think and uses bags which have fold over seal caps set into them.

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time and trouble to provide me with all the info. I looked into Orecks, the Miele 7280 and the Sebo Felix with the fold over seal cap vacuum bags. I found a very nice vacuum/appliance fix-it shop that sells Sebos. I bought a store demo model of the latest Felix "Premium" for $400 (it sells on Amazon for $559) and I will be trying it out over the next few days.

Nette wrote:
Great Nette,

Let us know what you think.

Best,

Venson

Nette wrote:

Very good choice.  Excellent price.  Let us know how well it meets your requirements after you take it through its paces.

Carmine D.

The Sebo works great in every way except in one key area: air filtration. Given the allergic reaction (nose, throat, eyes) I have within a couple of minutes of turning it on, it seems as if there is next to no air filtration despite its claims otherwise. I wasn't able to tell this in the store because I tried the vacuum for less than thirty seconds at a time (I tried it several times) as it's such a small shop and it was hard to avoid the other customers coming and going. Maybe this particular vacuum is just not working well but all of the filtration components seem to be installed correctly and in good shape. I had an old Nilfisk until a few years ago and its filtration was much better. I also have less of an allergic reaction using the little Mighty Mite with the HEPA filter (although in every other way the Mighty Mite is obviously not nearly as good a vacuum).

I can return the vacuum but the store charges a twenty percent restocking fee. I can probably exchange it for an Oreck and not be charged a restocking fee (the store doesn't carry Mieles).

Look in to a PROTEAM Xp1500 . This is the best bang for the buck upright on the market.You would be hard pressed to find any better at any price.One of its nicer features is it has a 50ft power cord.If you are truely looking for 20 to 25 year machine this is it,

Check it out

MOLE

mole wrote:

heard those had the same outstanding quality filtering as  lindhause and miele...hospital grade if im not mistaken. ..arent  they made by eka/santr ?

ps. is it me or is that felix one ugly vac...

turtle1

Nette,

If you like the Sebo otherwise, I wouldn't give up on it so quickly.  Certainly you should ask a vacuum professional to check that all the filters are installed properly.  However, your vacuum cleaner is just one part of the puzzle. 

If you have mold in your heating and air system or cat/dog dander in the air, there's not a lot that a vacuum cleaner can do for you. There has been an inordinate amount of rain in some parts of the country which could exacerbate your allergy symptoms with the increased mold and mildew in the air. 

I would recommend that you do some research on the allergy buyer's club web site:  http://www.allergybuyersclub.com/acr/acr_53.shtml#2

It's also possible that you might have to suffer through allergy shots as payment for the enjoyment you get from the cat and dog.  

I wish you well, and hope you find a solution to your allergy problems. 

I've had allergies all of my life and I am aware (and have tried most) of the various treatments available. I already do quite a bit for allergies in regard to indoor air quality: e.g. HEPA room air purifiers throughout the house and on the HVAC system, carpet and upholstery treatments, etc. These are quite helpful. (I have also purchased products recommended by Allergy Buyers Club with mixed results.) Unfortunately, the Sebo Felix does not seem to work as well at filtration as other vacuums I've had and the difference is very noticeable in regard to my allergy symptoms when I use the vacuum.

Hello Nette:

Sorry to hear the results were negative for filtration.  I took the liberty to post this based on MOLE and turtle1's posts.  I agree with Severus, it may not be the vacuum alone and/or you may be able to minimize the negative filtration effects w/o a vacuum change.

Carmine D.

ProTeam ProCare XP1500 Upright Vacuum has the following features: ProCare Innovations ProCare has a LONGER HOSE with 2 1/2 feet more reach due to hose length and straight wand. The resilient new wand, made of durable ABS plastic with less restriction points, will cut down on time-consuming clogs. The operating switch has been moved to the top of the handle for easier user access. The new over-molded handle has a comfortable ergonomic style with softer grip. The handle weight is now 20% lighter due to tool changes and a new polycarbonate handle. A strain relief has been included and is EASILY SERVICEABLE with nothing more than a flathead screwdriver - one third the tools are needed with half of the effort! The tool dock has been moved to the back of the vacuum, where it is more centrally located for EASE OF USE and takes extra weight off the hanlde. A convenient BAG COVER RELEASE button has been added to ensure SECURE latching. When replacing the bag lock out switch, removing the whole bag housing is no longer required as only one screw is involved making it EASY to repair. The integrated HEPA after filter now comes as a standard feature. The bag housing hose connection has a "simplified friction fit conneciton", making it more serviceable, as it requires less parts. Several improvements to the cord include: an additional 3 feet of working length, flexible in nature making it EASIER TO WORK WITH. A quick release CORD DROP has also been added to simplify unwinding the cord for operator convenience. ProCare 15 Features: Power: 1160 W / 120 V Airflow: 96 CFM Sound: 77 dB (decibels) Static lift: 72" Intercept Micro Filter™ media: 207 sq. in. Removes allergens for better indoor air quality Captures and contains more dust to dramatically reduce follow up dusting Warranty: 5 years Four Level FiltrationProTeam's unique suction method of vacuuming cleans carpeting and floors without stirring up dust. The air stays cleaner, furniture collects less dust, and the operator can work without breathing unhealthy air. The Four-Level Filtration system is up to 99.79% efficient in filtering particles. Pro Team ProCare 15XP (Upright Vacuum) The ProCare models are offered with an internal HEPA media filter and organically treated Intercept Micro Filter that capture up to 99.79% of dust mites, pollen, bacteria and chemical residue measuring 1 micron and larger. ProCare 15XP carries a 5/5/5/Life warranty - 5 years parts, 5 years labor, 5 years motor and lifetime on the molded body parts when used in a residential setting. Includes: 14 1/2" brush roll, 35 ft. 18 gauge black power cord, electronic system performance indicator HEPA media filter exhaust quick release cord dump ergonomic padded handle grip with conveniently mounted 3-way power switch and on-board detail tools. ProCare 15XP Specs Power: 1160 W Weight: 18 lbs. Filtration: Four-Level Filtration Micro Filter : 247.5 sq. in. Airflow: 96 CFM Static lift: 72 Amps: 11 Availability: Usually ships the next business day. PROTEAM PROCARE XP1500 UPRIGHT VACUUM CLEANER with FREE Shipping PROTEAM-XP1500Regular price: $499.99Sale price: $349.88 PROTEAM UPRIGHT HIGH FILTRATION VACUUM CLEANER BAGThese are the Proteam Upright Bags for all the Pro Team Upright Vacuum Cleaners. 12/pk Availability: Usually ships the next business day. PROTEAM-UPBAGRegular price: $14.99Sale price: $8.88

Hi Carmine, thanks do you agree that this machine is EXCELLENT for the price, the only drawback is that its a little heavy to lug up and down stairs but for that price you might want one for each floor.......

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

Great price.  At 18 pounds not really heavy.  I'd buy for myself and may!

Carmine D.

Are you guys trying to make me feel bad about my Miele Tango?

The Pro-Team does look like a really nice machine. First thing I noticed was the Electrolux-like self-sealing bag. A good thing.

Venson

Hi Venson, yes the bags are the type U lux bags, The filters are in the bags ,so every time you change the bag you also get a fresh set of filters,Did you know ELECTROLUX in 1950 introduced the first multi filter self sealing bag,and in 1952 introduced the automatic shut off system and till this day still do.

The PROTEAM uyprights are the same as the aerus/electrolux commercial uprights,except that the tools are onboard,and just little tweaks here and there, This product has a storied history behind it, If my application called for an upright the proteam would certainly be in my own home........

regards

MOLE

B.T.W look how in expensive the high filtration bags are 8.88 for 12 bags.Such a deal''.

mole wrote:
Hi MOLE,

Yes indeed I do. I even recall that they were at one point referred to as "dust wrappers" or something to that effect.

The multi-ply lining actually did work in that it kept a lot of dirt off the outer bag wall and helped to sustain performance. Though the bag used for the LX, G and later models was considered somewhat small you could get a lot of cleaning done before time for a bag change due to the lining plus the design of the bag chamber. Electrolux was doing "omni-flow" 60 years before the name was invented.

Even at the stated regular price of $14.99 for 12 decently sized high-filtration bags I think it's still a deal.

Best,

Venson

Hi Venson,I know how much you like your MIELE tango,its no dought an excellent  cleaning and super clean running upright, The cloth blown fleece high filtration bags are the best on the market,  , I remember when miele used the paper treated bags and was one of the first to use the  cloth like bags another thing is the burst strength is dynomite

I find it very strange that the perfect lux comes standard with the filtrete bags, but no automatic shutoff.This machine is the old diamond jubille lux with updates ,the prices are really coming down.Do you know anyone that uses a PERFECT LUX?

MOLE

mole wrote:
Hi MOLE,

To be honest, I have not met anyone who owns one nor have seen any in the indie shops in my neighborhood even though they turn up easily enough online. Being the Perfect Lux, by my understanding, is not affiliated with Aerus/Electrolux maybe they aren't allowed licensing to use the shut-off mechanism.

Nonetheless, don't forget that Elecrolux sold a heck of a lot of non-automatics along side the top-of-the-line models to people who felt they were still getting quality minus a doo-dad or two all on account of the Electrolux name.

Though better on price than a new Aerus/Lux, Perfect Lux prices could have been a bit nicer to start with I think. Nice look, good build 'tis true but some practical folks might find it a lot cheaper just to go out and get a rebuilt or a good used Lux a lot cheaper.

Another issue for Perfect Lux here in New York City is that Aerus/Electrolux besides being well-known is a relatively visible presence. It has two franchises or shops in Manhattan and at least one in each of the other boroughs. If you want other niche brands like Filter Queen, Rainbow or even Kirby you really have to go looking.

Best,

Venson

Mole and the rest of the gang, I agree that the pro-team upright is an excellent choice for the price.  It's like a lux semi-clone, without the high price!  In regards to who owns a perfect lux canister, none other than yours truly!

Vernon

Vernon wrote:
Hi Vernon,

Did you find yours in a shop or online?

Venson

Mm strange. Having owned the Felix for some time the S Class system (also HEPA identifable) is hospital grade so it could well be that whatever you tested had an old wrap around filter that needed replacement; particularly if it is an demo model you tried.

Also.. you could consider the older Sebo X model but bear in mind that it doesn't have a beater bar stop function. I've used a delicate floor brush bar on mine for marble flooring.. now how precious are your hard floors, Nette? The X is reasonably good at most things but doesn't swivel like the Felix. Optional filters consist of a charcoal embedded S Class filter but I have a sneaky suspicion that the U.S get totally different Sebo filters. Having spoken to the MD of Sebo UK he confirmed that the U.S prefer the paper pleated filter cartridges but they proved to be less than successful in Europe. I know some dealers in the U.S that sell the S Class charcoal filter though in lieu of the yellow cartridge placed in the Sebo X.

As for the Prochem featured here, I have another hunch that it has Sebo components which should mean extra longevity.

Venson wrote:
Venson,
I purchased my perfect canister through a distributor

Vernon

There is a definite lesson to be learned from Nette's case.  If you have health sensitivities, a 30 second test run in the store is not the best trial for a decision to buy.  Nothing like in-home for a few days.  And, it can be costly to return the purchase with a 20 percent penalty fee.  I don't know all the facts and circumstances but from what I do know it would appear that Nette buying a display model should not be charged a return fee of 20 percent.  The store owner is allowed to make his/her own rules and regulations on vacuum sales.  I would not support this one unless Nette/the user returned the vacuum long after buying with considerable use/wear and tear.

Carmine D. 

Hi Carmine,

It is true a shop owner can and may write the rules as regradrs their establishment but he customer has hte right to say no and look elsewhere. Per my recall, Nette could not have had the vacuum all that long before posting about the purchase and the problem.

Twenty percent is excessive. I make it a habit to get an understanding about return policy before I buy.

Though the vacuums recommended were certainly good, I think persons with hypersensitivity to dust might better consider central vacuums if at all feasible. I am not fully schooled as to installation costs but a decent CVS in a split-level home of average size with installation might run the same as the cost of high-end portable vacs like Miele and Sebo.

Though not an allergy suffer, on the other hand I'd think a supply of toss-away dust masks might be a good thing to keep around the house if a portable vac is what you have to use and maintain and you are very sensitive.

Venson

PS -- for any number of reasons I am highly reluctant to suggesting Rainbow.

Hi Venson:

If I recall MOLE suggested a refurbed CVS but I don't think Nette responded.

Many years ago I caught pneumonia from airborne dirt/germs.  Making me more prone to the disease after.  In the vacuum business, dirt is a part of every day life.  So I resigned myself to using the face masks for repair work, which as the doc said if I had done in the first place, I would not have caught it. 

Carmine D.

My suggestion would be the Miele Callisto by a mile. It meets every requirement posted and if bought at a store vs Online it squeaks under the pricepoint. Note: The Callisto is much better than the Cat/Dog Miele which is based on a 10+ year old machine.

Nette wrote:
SEBO have just announced (certainly here in the UK, anyway) that the Felix will be available with a new charcoal filter suitable for pet owners. It fits under the bag just like the normal lift out microfilter. This should combat smells - mine arrives next week, so I'll report back!

The Miele Titan lists at 499.00 the P/N is the narrower version w/o height adjustment (517?) A hepa filter can be added. It has the same motor as the larger canisters, tool storage is external, and the hose grip is not as nice, but a lot of vacuum for the money.

Trebor wrote:
Have a look at http://www.buzzle.com/articles/is-the-miele-titan-vacuum-a-good-buy.html

It actually explains why the S2 Titan is expensive.

Sorry, the Titan is the red one, the Delphi is the white w/o the hepa filter which can be added. $499.00 out the door at most dealers even of they cannot advertise them at that price

Nettie, you might also consider a Miele universal upright, a stick vac on steroids. You can get a power nozzle or a turbo nozzle if you need it.

vacmanuk wrote:
Absolutely brilliant - no smells of dog hair come back into the room with this fllter type fitted on the Sebo Felix. Suction and power not tampered with either - still as powerful. For those interested, the product number is 7185ER.