Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I heard tell that there was a new Lux coming down the pike.  Anyone have any info?  Is it a new Lux or a redesigned Guardian?

Some hear tell it has a digital motor. 

Hi Just:

Some here would like to believe [and others] that dyson "invented" the digital motor for vacuums. 

No such thing!

Carmine D.

Just wrote:
Hi Just,

All I've heard of is the Honeywell central vacuum, manufactured by Electrolux Home Care Products of North America, that is touting an Electrolux digital motor control not a digital motor. See link:

http://www.vacdepot.com/vacuums/185_Honeywell_Quiet_Pro_Power_Unit.html

Venson

i heard today it was a lux canister with a digital mtr..with 40% more power ..efficient..quiet...and rebuildable at that.

that its lighter than previous cans of its size....im thinking along the lines as an answer to the Perfect can [lux design]

New Electrolux Specs:

Electrical rating 10 amps at 120 volts
Air watts (motor) 439
CFM 145
Canister weight 11.9 lbs
Power Nozzle weight 4.6 lbs
Canister dimensions 24"l x 9"w x 8.5"h
Power nozzle dimensions 3.5"h x 15"w x 8"deep
Cord length 20 ft
Filter bag capacity 2.5 us qts Type c bag
20 year limited warranty

Power Nozzle now has an overheat shutoff.
The Aerus symbol lights up when plugged in to show its ready.

This info came from "pr-21" at the Vacuum Discussion forum. I wish there were some pictures of the vacuum.

vaclov wrote:
Hi vaclow,

This is a new machine made by Aerus?

Venson

Hi again,

If we're same page the new machine is called the Lux Guardian Ultra. Aerus says that if has been out for about one month and that its HEPA filter has been redesigned to fit internally.

I'm going to take a ride over for a look today.

Venson

Venson wrote:
Yep its the new Guardian Ultra from Aerus.  The local store in my area moved to another location and unfortunately its much to far away.  I wish they would just update their website so we could take a look at the machine.

So new its not even on the Aerus Web Site yet.  Sounds exciting.  439 Air watts.  Sounds like it handily beats the brand that coined air watts as it's standard for suction.  Gotta love competition. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

hi carmine

man thats alot of power for a household canister....to date , you ever come across anything with that much power in upright or can form.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle1

Best I've heard to date.  Hopefully will get more more info on this new Aerus model from an Aerus expert.  Sounds like a winner depending on the price.  The highest a/w in the industry will be a definite talking point in the Aerus demo over the d brand canisters with all their supposed innvovations.  Eye on the prize.  Beat the competition at their own game!  Then bury them for good.

Carmine D.

 

CarmineD wrote:
LOL!!!!The suction is crazy but I wish they would fully redesign the power nozzle for better deep cleaning.

vaclov wrote:
I totally agree.

Venson

vaclov wrote:

Hello vaclov and Venson:

Be nice.  DIB and HS will take umbarge at these remarks as attacks against dyson uprights for its puny brush bars. 

Procare is right on and is MOLE.  DC28 design could be problematic by sealing too tightly with rugs and stiffling suction power even resulting in overheating.  Note the Aerus write up about the Aerus power brush heads and tools. 

Carmine D.

I went. I saw. And I said enough already!

My local Aerus/Electrolux dealer has closed up shop. So I took a three-mile trip to an Aerus dealership in Rego Park expecting to see something at journey's end and almost did. Keeping in mind that you can't tell a book by its cover, I hope there's a lot in the pages cover to cover.

This particular dealer has not yet put the one piece he has on hand out for display in his window but he does have new Ultra Lux Guardian posters hanging about the shop. Believe me, even if they'd set the real item in front of me -- the Earth would not have moved.

The new Ultra Lux Gaurdian is basically an old Electrolux Epic with a new top, slightly lower profile and slightly fattened up furniture guards AND is non-commital beige. Wheels set, hose fitting all still the same. The hose end appears to be the lesser version they always sold -- equipped with simply an on/off switch for the PN, a locking button and what I assume is another button for decreasing suction. As the combi-tool for above the floor and the crevice tool all clip onto a wand, there's no need for attachment storage of any kind atop the cleaner. PN is also the standard deal.

Apparently, the HEPA is lies horizontally and the bag size is the standard size Lux bag not the slightly larger type "R" the Renaissance and Guardian models use.

The cleaner's carry handle, nothing more than a handhold, is integrally worked into the new top piece on the cleaner. There is of course venting slots on top at the motor end. And . . . that's it.

Entering the store under the guise of a prospective customer of course -- wonder if I'll get an Oscar this year -- I popped the question, "How much?" The young man minding the shop got his boss on the phone and the answer to my query was, "$1,699.00. But that can be reduced if you have a trade-in. He asked what vacuum I owned (crazy guy) and I mentioned that I had a Kirby G5. For that he said could drop the price by $300 to $400. Just this moment my Mieles feel like a gift from God.

The only thing to impress is the 20-year warranty. The power spec is no big deal. I already own a 200-buck Black & Decker vac that has a 1200 watt motor and power aplenty though not a tool set I care for.

Quoting a friend of mine when she realized she'd met the man she was going to spend her life with -- "It's just all so damned inevitable."

Venson

Hello Venson:

You're shooting holes in my dreams!

Not really.  Thanks Venson for the review.  Sounds like the lux classic is still the best for the money!

Carmine D.

Hi Venson, Carmine,

The skinny on the guardian ULTRA, The origional renne thru 9000 serirs has been around since 1993 ,The machine really needed to go. The new ULTRA is the classic body with the hepa filter on the inside under the lid.The attahments are a little different as far as inside diameter,the motor is not carbonless its the same motor as the famous vortec  motor used in the high priced german machines,The warranty is 20 years on the motor and 5 on everything else, Following tradition its fully automatic, the only machine of its kind in the world.Customers really like it so far  they really like the feel of it, The machine really sells itself,We can say what we want about Aerus/elecreolux But the company has a VERY LOYAL CUSTOMER BASE,The machine is selling already for 999,00,

REGARDS

MOLE

 

Hi MOLE:

Thanks for the skinny on the Guardian Ultra.  $1000 sounds like a decent price.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
I thank you as well MOLE. So this machine does have an automatic shut-off once the bag's full? Is it electronic or the mechanical kind (with diaphragm) like back in the day. Has ther been a drop as far as noise is concerned?

The 20-year warranty is indeed meritous but, pricewise, is $999.00 the price regardless of whether or not you have a "trade-in"? If so, the customers are doing better in your neck of the wood than here. The shop's proprieter quoted $1,699 and a possible $300 to $400 reduction with reduction with trade-in.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson,remember the company went franchises a long time ago,the dealers are just that now dealers,not held by corporate restaints,The machines are owned by the store owners not by the company anymore.Every dealer is fighting for that sale, its really a good thing the competiton now exposes the ROOKIES and the seasoned pros who know how to get around things.Yes the machine is electronic,the 7000 is manual.

This is not a hobby for us this is all we do [SALES AND SERVICE].Even the 999.00 price is not etched in stone.Got to do what you got to do.

I learned a long time ago ,A HALF OF LOAVE IS BETTER THAN NONE.

regards

MOLE

Hi MOLE,

My questions were posed for the sake of my own learning curve. The consumer has gotta do what he has to do too. However, if I don't trust anyone else's word, I certainly trust yours.

Venson

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

A religious man!  The multiplication of the loaves [Gospels of Mark and John] to feed 5000!  Have to trust your word!

Carmine D.

  Having not seen the new Guardian Ultra I can not say a lot yet. But to answer Vaclov on the design of the powerhead - there a constant change in the design of the power nozzle and it's components. The basic style may not change but things like the motor, brushroll, air slots for airflow are constantly changing for the carpets of the day. If you followed the history of the power nozzle , you would see the change as carpets in the home changed. The PN 1 was designed when Jute backed  Area rugs were the rage, Then PN 2 came out for the start of Wall to Wall carpeting, PN 4 came to work with the carpet as they started to have moisture barriers. The PN-5 was the first of the Omni Flow design power nozzles for all around cleaning. The PN-6 came out next to improve with the air slots , brushroll change, and motors. As the carpets change , suction changes, the power nozzle will change. How would you redesign the power head?  Deep cleaning is there. Change your brushroll every six to seven years or less if you use it a lot  because as a brush wears, your deep cleaning will go away. Brushrolls don't last forever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Procare

CarmineD wrote:

Hello vaclov and Venson:

Be nice.  DIB and HS will take umbarge at these remarks as attacks against dyson uprights for its puny brush bars. 

Procare is right on and is MOLE.  DC28 design could be problematic by sealing too tightly with rugs and stiffling suction power even resulting in overheating.  Note the Aerus write up about the Aerus power brush heads and tools. 

Carmine D.

Carmine contrary to your beliefs I consider all the comparisons to Dyson as FLATTERY.  No other vacuum has created so much jealousy by the other players.

Hello HS/DIB:

I'd say the quote function is acting up again!  Here's the proof.  And its not MOLE's post. 

I actually agree with you HS.  The other vacuum brands are not jealous they are livid.  Dyson is the cream of the crap in vacuums and sells for luxury prices! 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hello HS/DIB:

I'd say the quote function is acting up again!  Here's the proof.  And its not MOLE's post. 

I actually agree with you HS.  The other vacuum brands are not jealous they are livid.  Dyson is the cream of the crap in vacuums and sells for luxury prices! 

Carmine D.

The only reason they are livid is because Dyson put the hurt on most and busted Hoover.  I know one Dyson was crappy.  The one Dyson shoved up your sitter.

       One thing I don't worry about is Dyson. There is nothing flattering about Dyson or the other bagless opponents to it. In my area you walk into Walmart and all you see are bagless vacuums and one cheap bagged vacuum. The people here are getting tired of bagless and are not getting another. I have more than a dozen that people brought in to work on and said no to repairing and said they wanted a bagged vacuum instead. I didn't steer them in that direction, they did. Not all of them bought from me because of price of product . Many could only buy the cheap due to unemployment in the area.

                                                                                                        Procare

procare wrote:

Bagless dominates in all big box stores.  Do you not think this is because most all brands jumped deep into bagless when Dyson was selling so good?  Hoover's first attempts at bagless were pathetic.  Their Fusion was a marginal improvement.  I gifted a Fusion to my sister for her new home 3 years ago and it is already in need of repair.    I used a DC07 for 3 years and never one hiccup.  Imitation is flattering but not necessarilly as good as the copied product.

Are you saying that a dozen Dysons came in or a mixed bag (no pun) of brands came in?  What did the dozen or so buy to replace their bagless?

If you consider the number of bagless sold by WM a dozen is a very small ratio of disliked vacs.  IMO there was as many bagged from WM that were dislikled prior to the bagles.  WM is not known for top quality and I find them to be no less expensive than the competition on like brands.  They get the crowds due to location, location, location.  Also they have excellent satisfaction policy.

Enough.  Thanks for your civil posts.

HARDSELL wrote:

Correct: "was."  As in a fad that soon fades.  Bagless have come and gone through the years in the vacuum industry.  Being wildly popular and then waning.  Your fave brand joined the ranks of the ones that came before.

Bagless is consumer cheap.  Ideal for sticks and hand helds and shop vacs.  Full size use and the dirt bin dumping is a nuisance.  You went from the DC07 bagless to a bagged royal.  Just as Procare and other indies see in their business. 

By trash talking bagged vacuums from the starting gate and still to elevate his own bagless brand, James thumbed his nose at a majority of the vacuum consumers and market.  All experts warn of the negative effects of bagless and bin dumping on peoples' health.  James would have to swallow alot of crow to enter the mainstream bagged market now.  Probably too late for him at this point.

Give credit to the bagged vacuum brands that coexisted with the bagless.  They had the eye on the prize.  James was too egotistic and haughty to coexist.  Like his zealous supporters he thought his overpriced overhawked and hyped bagless would run the competition out of business.  His thinking backfired.  They are prospering and he is drowning.

Carmine D.

When I spoke of these dozen bagless that people said not to fix is not saying some others didn't get theirs fixed but almost everyone said when they bought new they were going back to bagged.The  only one to benifit is the Independents that carry them. As I recall the average number of bagless sold in the U.S. was 30% and is declining.  A Dyson was put out in the trash by a lady down the street yesterday. A DC-25 Ball.

CarmineD wrote:

procare wrote:

I am sorry to hear that business is so bad that you are having to scrounge the roadside trash to survive. 

What was the ratio of Dyson vs others in the dozen bad vacs? 

Which is the moneymaking side of your business? 1. Vac sales or 2. service /repair and supplies?

procare wrote:

An appropriate place for it.  I've seen the same with dysons too in the trash.  And the cartons too with the dysons.  Oops there goes another recycled dyson.

I recall a certain dyson poster [no longer posting here] saying that the day he sees a dyson sold at yard sale and/or tossed in the garbage is the day he would die of a heart attack.  I told him I hope that his soul makes it to Heaven before the devil finds out he dead.

Carmine D.

HS:

Ask the former dyson buyers/owners who leave their dysons unclaimed in vacuum repair shops because they can't afford/don't want to spend the money to repair their overpriced dyson bagless vacuums, how they are enjoying flushing $500 down the toilet.  Oops there goes another refurb/recycled dyson.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

HI CARMINE

around here .....he woulda been gone a long time ago. ..pawn shops , yard sales , trash bin,......piled up behind service counter at wally.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello 'turtle1'

I'm sure he has died a thousand deaths.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Refer back to the customer satisfaction polls and you will find more satisfied Dyson owners than your hoover brand owners.  Of course the pros love repairing those hoovers.

Hardsell, In your remark about me scrounging thru trash is an insult. I have no need to go thru somebody's trash for business. Business is good thank you. Both in sales and repair.  Those bagless vacs that no one wanted fixed have been trashed (R ECYCLED ). I don't resell them. A few of the Dysons have been made into birdfeeders. Others have been put aside for spare parts.  Most given on trade $25.

                                                                                                            Procare

procare wrote:

procare wrote:

$25.....that much? WOW......we tell them to keep the dyson. .no dyson trade ins ..out of pity we give xtra pk bags ...with the purchase

of a beautiful ,durable ,high quality ,very resonably priced vacuum ...from our showroom.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

Your argument falls apart with only one HOOVER model: the HOOVER TEMPO.  I posted the excerpt from amazon.com with 1000 customer reviews for the TEMPO.  More than any other make/model.  The most popular and top rated vacuum of all vacuum brands bought and used.  Only $80 MSRP vice your brand $500 plus. 

Visit the indy from which you purchased your bagged Royal Emminence.  Ask about your fave brand.  Then, report back here what you learn.  If you dare?

Carmine D.

procare wrote:

Hello Procare:

HS and his dyson twin DIB are dyson pawns here who attack personally and professionally all vacuum cleaner stores owners and operators for their frank and honest opinions about their favorite brand dyson.  Taking their lead from dyson and Sir James they also attack all other bagged brands [choke vacuums]  and bagless [lazy copiers] in an effort to elevate their own overpriced brand at the expense of others. 

They are not vacuum industry professionals, tho they don't state their background here saying instead it is not important.  Gives them wide latitude and discretion to attack indies and industry pros here who do post and are proud of their business heritage.  DIB will point to his father's 3 restaurant businesses as a frame of reference for business.  I suspect he does not see eye to eye with his father either on business matters since he is not part of the restaurant business.  I opine that his father used dysons in the businesses and was so upset and disappointed by the performance that he refuses to allow his son in.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  But not sure.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Is your computer giving bad info again.  Amason results do not show Hoover as rating better.

Total Reviews	5 Stars	% with 5 Stars
1414	763	53.96%	Tempo
35	5	14.29%	Fusion	31% rated it 1 star
12	1	8.33%	Fusion Plus	50% rated it 1 star
412	256	62.14%	DC07	All Floors
551	427	77.50%	DC07	Animal
70	49	70.00%	DC25	Animal
132	78	59.09%	DC14	All Floors
161	108	67.08%	DC18	All Floors

I discussed Dyson with the Royal dealer when I bought the Royal.  Actually he did not bad mouth them.  Naturally he wanted to sell a vac so he gave the pitch on advantage of the Royal.  BTW he was selling DC07 and had one on the new display floor.

HARDSELL wrote:

As usual HS you post ands spin to suit your purposes.  HOOVER TEMPO gets more 5 star ratings than the DC07 All Floors and DC07 Animal combined.  THe most 5 star ratings.  Take off your dyson color glasses.  Here's the excerpt for you again:

Glad to hear the indy sells at least the DC07.  I would too just for accomodation to customers who insist and to get the warranty and parts business.  Unlike James, indies don't have to bad mouth dyson to elevate the brands they sell and repair.  All coexist for customers to chose.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,  I do not attack but hell yes I will defend.  Your asinine remarks have resulted in many attacks from others on you in every forum that you participated in. 

You have had a vendetta against Dyson ever since they made a monkey of you a few years back.  Please post back with any untrue statements that I have made against other brands.  Your ego is so big that you will go to any extreme in an attempt to boost it.  Dyson took the wind out of you sails so you set out on a journey to ruin them.  Success or failure will not be a result of your part.  You are no more than a pith ant in the path.

A professional is one who earns a living in a given or implied occupation.  All are not experts, skilled nor honest. Regardless of occupation.  I did not attack Procare.  In fact I posted a smiley with the comment.  Anyone who participates in a publc forum and can't accept some kidding needs to get in a dark room without a computer.  I previously thanked Procare for his civil manner in one of his posts.

HERE IS YOUR SIGN   

HARDSELL wrote:

Defend the consistently lower and lower sales for the later dyson models and the lower 5 star ratings.  Tell me based on the data: Are dyson sales and performance improving/regressing?  Your data.  Just as the indies and I here are saying.  DC07 was the best for dyson.  After that, its been all downhill.  In sales and performance.  70 ball models sold.  On the market for over 2 years.  Innovative?  In price and looks only.  This is the same model with the defective motor harness wiring that fails in a few months of purchase.  Wonder how many of those 49 raters giving 5 stars would still?

Carmine D. 

The more you post and attack, the more you prove me right about you and your dyson twin DIB being dyson pawns here.  Struggling to keep your fave brand afloat?  Did you notice that in your chart data, HOOVER TEMPO models sold more than all your dysons combined.  Do the math.  One HOOVER model sells more units than a half dozen dyson models and gets more 5 star ratings.  Fact!  You posted it.  Look at the low dyson sales and 5 stars for the ball model.  DIB boasts this as leading edge technology.  Yeah, right like the dyson ball barrow that no longer sells anywhere except on-lin by a German outfit that had to modify substantially to give it balance.  Sold to little ladies who do gardening!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I did not see any sales data numbers.  Only Review numbers.  I have no doubt that Tempo is a big seller.  Cheeeap, Cheeeeap always sells more than expensive.  More sales does not mean better cleaning performance.

Tempo performs better than all the high priced imports also by your ctireria.

Amazingly it rates better than those $200 to $800 Orecks that you taut.  Why do you continue to use your electric broom?  The Tempo should suffice.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Presumably more reviews is logically consistent with more sales, yes.  Wouldn't you agree?  I suspect you abridged the chart data, leaving out DC15 and DC24 sales and reviews. 

Now that your HOOVER versus dyson argument falls apart you want to introduce ORECK?  And call it an electric broom?  Proof of your attacking non-dyson brands?  Want more? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

How does it fall apart when Dyson has more perfect scores?  Common sense tells an intelligent person that the brand with fewer reviews can not have more stars.  Intelligence also shows Dyson getting a larger % of share.  Remember what you always say.  % of market is better than units sold.  % should apply in comparisons also if what you always say is true.

Read and weep:

REVIEWS	5 STARS	% AT 5 STARS
403	289	71.71%	DC15
77	38	49.35%	DC24
24	6	25.00%	HOOVER Z 700
8	1	12.50%	Z 400

Didn't you tell the world that "Z" and Fusion would whoop Dyson.  The chart tells the story.  Your favorite (Wind Tunnel) scores about 35 % in 5 stars.  Not very good for a vac that you taut as the standard to match in the industry.  Is it any wonder that no one copies the WT?

My point with Oreck was to show that the Tempo rates higher than your tauted Oreck.  Get over it.

No attack. Just fact.

My point HS is that HOOVER makes and sells an $80 upright TEMPO that consistently beats out all the $500 plus dyson models in sales, performance and satisfaction.    And TEMPO beats others too.  A testament ot its quality, performance and consumer appeal.

Carmine D.

And TEMPO is only 16 pounds.  The cutoff for a lightweight class in the vacuum industry.  Eat your hearts out dyson fans. 

Carmine D.

Hardsell,

   I did not take your remark of me as a joke, smiley or not. I fix vacuums for all customers no matter what they have. Dyson just hasn't got what it takes for me to back. Plastic that gets brittle and easy to break, dyson claims of never clogging or losing suction (under laboratory use not home use) , Suction of the late 80's , early 90's, heavy weight, high price for the cost of its components- DIB says wholesale for clutch unit $ 19 , try and get one  cost fom Dyson $50 plus labor putting it in at a Dyson facility total cost with tax could cost $124 +. As far as having a vandetta against Dyson ,Hoover, Kirby, Rainbow or any other vacuum I don't.

   I have been working on all cleaners for longer than you have been around . Bagless electric brooms came out in the 1950's. The people asked for and got bagged brooms. Today we are seeing a fad that is going on and as any fad will eventually die. It will take longer than in the fifties due to the population. It sounds good to use no bags but it does take filters and they are more expensive than bags and many don't last as long.

                                                                                             Procare

                                                                                                    

procare wrote:
HARDSELL wrote:

I doubt that you have been working on vac as long as I have been around.  I never questioned or attacked your integrity or ability.

I did ask 3 questions that Have not been answered. 

Did the words "on topic" ever mean anything... its reasons like the rants and b*tching in this thread that people don't read online forums. When I log on and see a thread updated I'm hoping to find info about the topic, not some petty disagreement. That is what email and instant messengers are for folks.

Back on topic, I picked up an Epic at an estate sale today and was kind of comparing notes to what was written early in the thread. This could be a nice machine if all holds true, but I reiterate my earlier statement in a different thread. The days of the luxury vacuum cleaner are coming to a close, me believes.

lazaruspup wrote:
Good morning lazaruspup,

My feeling remains that all any vacuum manufacturer needs is two, no more than three models per each type of machine it may make. Basically a good no-frills machine and a "deluxe" version with extra features for those that can't live without them or want to look good for the neighbors.

The big problem I see is that luxury items are now commanding pricing way, way above and beyond what it actually costs to make them. The idea of acquiring something a little better is great but if you can't afford it you buy what you can buy. I think even my old standby, Sears, is beginning to leave the average consumer behind in the dust as it's prices escalate too.

By the way, check out http://www.aerusonline.com. I don't know if it's been doing this all along but Aerus now has a "Buy now-pay later" plan in place. I haven't heard of this is years. In current history, most cunsumers buying expensive vacs like Lux, Rainbow, FQ and Kirby have been buying this machines with their credit cards, leaving the makers free of bother with accounting and collections -- especially in case of default.

Back in the day, many of the more costly niche brand vacs sold door to door had hook-ups with finance companies to encourage people to buy despite the high asking price. Many ofthe buyers were those for whom the cost of a hogh-priced vacuum was a really ungainly stretch of the budget. I recall I bought my first Filter Queen that way just to establish a credit background. I also handled the acquisition of a Lux Silverado the same way.

I assume that Aerus has linked up with GE for this purposes due to shrinking credit availability in regard to the credit card.

Venson

Hi Venson:

I saw the GE credit line advertised on the Aerus site.  Very interesting.  Looks like a direct swipe at all the big box retailers advertising credit for their customers' purchases.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Considering our current economic picture, do you think is easy to acquire or that there may be limitations for financing? 40 or more years ago, door-to-door vac vendors were allowing credit not only to those who appeared well-heeled but to just about everybody including homes where welfare was the major source of income.

Again my suspicion is that they were so free with credit/financed sales because the actual cost of the machines was far below the asking price.

Wonder if they'll set up a "rebate for clunkers" plans for old vacs the same way as they've done for cars?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Contrary to the Administration's pronouncements about mortgage assistance thru the Feds to assist borrowers, I have not seen any iota of real world evidence.  Especially here in Las Vegas.  All the major banks/lenders are turning down borrowers for refi's and interest rate adjustments.  Unfortunately, as the Inspector General for the TARP funds has asserted on several occasions, there is no accountability/transparency for the expenditures of these "taxpayer" funds.  By past practice, we know from the Government Accountability Office [formerly the General Accounting Office(GAO)] that WITH OVERSIGHT in place the funds risk a 10 percent amount of fraud, waste and abuse.  WITHOUT OVERSIGHT, as is the case of the TARP funds, who knows the amount for sure.  $500 BILLION with no oversight in place.

WRT cash for clunkers:  I am the original owner of a 1999 Ford Explorer XLT with combined MPG of 15.  It is on the list of eligibles for the Fed program.  It has over 92K miles.  I am in the market for a replacement.  But I haven't taken advantage of the Fed program.  Why?  I have received solicitations from Ford daily with a line of credit of $35K and promise of almost $8500 cash discount for my Explorer.  NO big deal seeing I got $3000 cash rebate on a new 2008 Ford Escape in November 2007 w/o any trade in. 

Leave it to the government to screw it up.  You know what the dealership would do with my trade in?  Throw in a gunk solution to kill the engine and squash the body to a state of being indistinguishable.  A waste.  Many, many years ago I witnessed HOOVER employees killing their old style upright vacuums when they came in on trade.  Why?  HOOVER believed as long as the old style HOOVER's [and I'm talking 30's and 40's vintage] were on the market, they would never sell any of the new HOOVER's.  The scheme didn't work for HOOVER.  I survived for 7 years in the vacuum business never selling a new HOOVER.  Just selling HOOVER rebuilts to people who wanted new HOOVER's. 

Same with the cash for clunkers.  As the price of gas goes down, these old fuel guzzlers will become more desirable and their value/prices will go up.  More so with so many going to the dumps.  Carmine's rule: Whatever the Feds try to accomplish, usually just the opposite occurs.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Is that 8 on the road and 7 in the city combined to get 15?

HARDSELL wrote:

No that's 8 new DC25's sold and 7 returned in less than 3 months that didn't run due to a faulty motor wiring harness.  For a total of 15 dissatisfied people.  The 8 that flushed $500 down the toilet for a DC25 and the 6 DC07 and DC14 clutch repairs for $100-$135 each who may have traded up to a DC25 but won't.  Why? Because the dyson dealer for North Las Vegas [number 15] refuses to sell the dyson ball model.  Why?  He has too much business integrity and honesty to sell dyson ball vacuums that he knows will come back in under warranty for repairs.  Amazing how the numbers grow exponentially when word of mouth by these 15 disgruntled dyson users/seller gets out into the market place to others.  Like me.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Must have been using some of those faulty Hoover switches.  Didn't they cause some fires.  Also what was the fine imposed on Hoover for failure to report the switches? 

vaclov wrote:
So at those posted numbers...could you use a standard lux bag , or a cloth bag due to the power of the new motor. .I had read somewhere that  PERFECT  had to use cloth on their model.... or do paper bags have the strength to handle it....given the small size of bag...- just curious but how do the lux brown bags compare to the micron magic  paper  bags in terms of durability and filtering?

Lux is still using their standard C Home solutions bags in these newer more powerful units.  I highly recommend using the perfect bag (which is cloth hepa rated) or any other brand of cloth hepa (endust comes to mind) in a lux machine.  In fact, I will never use paper again as the cloth/hepa type are soooo superior in filtration, airflow, and useful life.  Yes, the perfect bags are much, much stronger, the cardboard collar is about 50% thicker to withstand the tremendous suction the perfect unit produces.  I have never had the bag separate from the collar with the perfect bag, unlike others which have. 

Vernon

Vernon said use the Perfect bag and not the OEM from Aerus. Sorry, if you do the warranty will go null and void.The bags are designed and known to work in the Aerus products.I am not comfortable with the  Perfect bag I have seen.

 The Ultra Filtration Technolgy has for it's bag gives 94% effecient at removing particles as small as 0.3 microns, including smoke , mold, bacteria, dust and dust mites ,pollen, pet dander and lung damaging particles.

Anti Microbial  Growth of germs ,bacteria ,mold and mildew inside the bag is prevented by anti microbial agent.

The bags for the Aerus 4 times more effective than the previous 4 ply they had since 1952. They are designed to take the suction or  there would be a change.  Designed  to fit bags - the majority have not given the filtration in use  as good as OEM.

                                                                                            Procare

Hmm this comment from PROCARE, does raise some warranty issues.

mole wrote:

PROCARE:  He's the Man!

Carmine D.

Genuine Style C Bags,

I actually have the new Lux Guardian Ultra. I have only had it since Monday, but have ran in each day. When this bag issue came up I went and looked inside the bag with a flashlight from where the hose connects. I have a genuine style c bag in and the airflow inside the bag has torn the inner ply away from the bag  where the bag is glued together. It does make me wonder if these bags will hold up under the extra power this vacuum has. I also have another question. I bought mine without seeing first so I don't know how they are supposed to sound. Mine has a higher pitch sound to it and is louder than a SR6500 motor. This is supposed to have a brushless motor in it and I have never heard a brushless motor before so I have nothing to go by. A friend of mine did say the Rainbow E2 brushless motor is not quite so maybe this is how brushless motors are. I have ran this for 45 minutes at a time. No problem with overheating.

Any help is welcome,

Bud

Bud,

  If you have an issue with the bag Aerus will want to know.Without my seeing the bag I can't determine what may be wrong. The company  i know wants you not to have a problem and will work with you on any problem.

                                                                                                                                          Procare

Talk to Dave at Cincy to check your bag.

New picture courteous of "williamr1248" from the VD forum.

I honestly like the look of the original Guardian better, but at least its quieter and more powerful.

vaclov wrote:
Thanks for the great picture vaclov.

By the way, what's that upright in the background?

Venson

These latest Aerus vacuums are gorgeous looking.  But nothing, I mean nothing, before or since, is as beautiful as the Electrolux AF.  A thing of beauty is a joy forever.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:
That's the new redesigned FreshEra upright, its been out on the market for a while now.  I have always wanted to run one around the house to see how it performed.  Its Electrolux's answer to the Oreck.

It looks like a Fixed 2 Piece wand????? How un-inspired is that? And that split upper & Lower section is and will always be a nightmare.

The hand grip and wands are identical to the tri star setup and are interchangeable. 

I guess I should clarify a little better, the wands are interchangeable as I took the new lux wands and put them on a tri star and vice versa, I didn't take the hand grip of the hose and try putting it on the other hose. 

Just got the news about the line of cleaners from Aerus on their change in power. Gee, they all have 439 Air Watts power- The Guardian Ultra , the Legacy and the Classic canister. What is different about them is price, features, and warranties. The Guardian Upright that came out in April with 319 Air Watts Power is now 394 Air Watts Power. No change in price at this time. Oh by the way the changes usually come around April and October.

                                                                                                                     Procare

procare wrote:

Thanks Procare for the heads-up.  Sounds interesting. 

Carmine D.

Check out  www.aerusonline.com
They have finally updated their website with the new redesigned vacuums.

vaclov wrote:

Designed and assembled in the USA with 20 year limited warranty. 

N-I-C-E.

Carmine D.

Hi,

A 20-year warranty but only a 20-foot cord unfortunately. The Ultra Guardian and the Legacy come with the electric mini-nozzle included. However, I think, considering cost, the Legacy and Classic will be the better deal for buyers.

What size is the brushless motor mentioned in comparison to the standard motor they'd used?

Venson

Venson wrote:
Venson,

I agree with you that the Legacy and Classic are the best bang for your bucks here.  If you want to increase the filtration on these two models, just purchase hepa bags instead of using standard paper.  By the way, the Legacy is the quieter of the three.

In regards to the vac motor, it is made by Johnson electric, it is a single stage.  Also, it does have carbon brushes.  It is rather deceiving though, as the brushes come right after the fan unit, and the body of the motor is encased over them.  We are so used to seeing the fan unit, field, brushes on the commutator, and the bearing coming right after this at the end.  Not so in this model.  The brushes are located about half way down the motor.  I do believe Ametek Lamb has a similar version called the Advantek series where they have done the same thing in regards to brush location.   If memory is correct, I believe it is a 5.25 inch diameter???  motor.  Have I seen the motor-yes, held it in my paws. 

Vernon

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson, it's the nature of the beast.  Automatic Cordwinders typically come with 20 feet or less.

Carmine D.

Vernon wrote:

Vernon,

Are the HEPA bags sold by Aerus-Lux?

No, the hepa bags are not sold by Aerus.  The only hepa bags that I can find to fit style C Lux so far are made by Perfect (Perfect Lux clone canister vac) and by Endust Filtration. 

Vernon

WRT paper bags Fabreze now has partnered with HOME CARE Industries in NJ with a line of paper bags.

http://www.baileylicensing.com/news/pr/090203.htm

Carmine D.

Vernon wrote:
Thanks Vernon,

I'm looking forward to a chance to see this new motor myself. There's been ongoing curiosity on my part as to when they'll start putting out motors of lesser size (by end-to-end depth I'd guess)that can match present power output standards. Also thanks for the noise advisory.

Best,

Venson

FWIW, all the tanks have 439 Air Watts.  Classic: 5 year warranty, Legacy: 10 years and Ultra G: 20 years.  All 3 designed and assembled in the USA.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I hope they smell better than the spray.

HARDSELL wrote:

You might give them a try while dancing your favorite pay toilet shuffle.

Carmine D.

Dont know about you guys but if you have charcoal filters, any kind of bag freshener can destroy HEPA filters etc

Disagree with you if the HEPA is the post motor filter.

Pet odors over time from a house cat/dog will infiltrate dyson's HEPA post filter and fill the exhaust air/room air with the pet odor smell.

Carmine D.

Mm what vacuums have a HEPA post filter though?
Essentially if you're running a Miele with the exhaust filter on top and it has charcoal filters including their blue HEPA cartridge it does warn owners not to use perfumed caps as it destroys the "natural" elements within the cartridge.

If you want HEPA pure exhaust air, it has to be a post motor filter.

Carmine D.

Not many vacuum makers say the HEPA filters last forever, save one brand that says "lifetime."  Not my lifetime.  Whose liftime do you think dyson is talking about?  I just serviced a 3 year old dyson and told the user to buy a new post motor HEPA filter and I would replace it.  It was filthy.  COvered with black carbon dust.  Sure bet that the HEPA was compromised in that exhaust air and in the room.  I believe she paid $42 for the dyson post motor filter at a retailer.  That's a depreciation rate of $14 a year for just the post motor filter doesn't count the pre-motor filter and all the washings and dryings.  $14 is the cost of a year's worth of bags for most vacuums, I'd say.

Carmine D.

OH well if you're referring to carbon dust there's Sebo's X filter at a cost of £1-99 in the UK, and I think relatively speaking in the U.S that costs around $3.44

Didn't specifically have a SEBO in mind. 

Carmine D.

I can think of a hundred reasons why I'll be told it's not possible so this is a dumb question but I'll ask anyway.

Considering that the body design of the Legacy and Classic Lux models have had no significant change, is there a possibility that owners of earlier but like models can "upgrade" them with the new Johnson motor?

Venson

Venson,

In regards can the older Lux models be upgraded to the newer motor??  Yes and NO.  From the exterior, both the old and new appear the same.  However, internally, the shaping/mold is different to accommodate the single stage motor vs a two stage unit.  The first single stage came out around 2004?? give or take, yes, you can put this newer, more powerful Johnson motor in it, all that is required is a new rubber gasket that sits at the back of the fan unit.  With the single stage motors, the shroud, for a lack of better term, that holds the motor, is screwed into the actual vacuum casing, not so for the two stage setup.  I have seen where a person has taken this new single stage and put it into the older two stage setup.  There was nothing there to keep the motor in place other than the cordwinder at the rear and the bag chamber at the front to keep the motor in place.  Don't know how long or well this will last, but time will tell. 

Vernon

Thanks Vernon.

Venson

www.aerusonline.com shows the new canister lineup. The new Guardian looks sleeker, smaller, is supposedly lighter and more powerful, and it still uses the 'R' style bag.

Trebor,

The new lux guardiian ultra uses the Style C bag. I recently purchased one.

Sincerely,

Bud

Sorry, the website is wrong. I looked at the bags link for the new guardian. How do you like it?

Trebor,

For the most part I like it. The motor is very loud and high pitched. The machine needs a multiple speed motor. The suction relief does no good at all. I can't use the sidekick even with the suction relief open. Sucks upholstery and bedspreads in and stalls out the sidekick. They have a bag problem that I have brought to their attention (with their new 2 layer bag, it pulls the inner layer loose exposing a lot of the outer layer bag. I sent them two used bags at their request and they sent me a new box of bags that do the same thing. They promised to let me know their findings, but about 3 weeks ago they turned the bags over to engineering and said it would take about a week for testing. I followed up a week ago and told them I did expect a reply as to what they found. I don't think they plan on telling me anything, which po's me very much. It's obvious they have a problem.

Nice Color Combination

Comfortable Handle

Steers very well

Looks great - Nice colors

Tools store on the wand

Totally sealed system

On off switch is much better

And most importantly, it cleans very well.

Bud

Hello Bud;

You probably did already, and if so can ignore this.  In asking for a reply on the bags, you might want to also provide your positive comments to Aerus on the unit's performance. 

Carmine D. 

budmattingly wrote:

Bud, & others here:

What do you opine is the problem with the bags?

Carmine D.

The multi-layer bags were originally lined with 3 layers of what appeared to be something akin to facial tissue, soft, porous, and in need of the sturdier outer paper shell that enclosed them. The bags for the Silverado clone (called 'The Perfect') use the clothlike filter material sometimes labelled 3M filtrete, but  I think there are more brands out there now. The new Airway bags, as most new high quality bags, are made of this material for durability, filtration, strong cleaning power as the bag fills, and resistance to tearing. They are also more expensive than their predecessors, in part, because they need less frequent replacement. With a much more powerful motor, and the quality control issues involved in outsourcing it would seem the new Aerus/Lux bags are simply not sturdy enough.   During the first part of a bag's useful life in an Electrolux, the cleaning power actually increases before it begins to drop off (on average, depending on the material being sucked up) due to a favorable shift in the airflow/suction ratio.  I saw the data plotted on the parabolic curve at the Lux factory in Bristol, VA. This was born out over decades of testing. There was obviously insufficient testing of the new bags because it was simply the familiar 'C' style bag used since the model 60. The very first 'C' bag was single layer paper. The salesmen would use an entire wrapper of bags during a demo because the single layer coated quickly and the automatic feature shut the machine off after only a few tablespoons of dirt had been picked up. Thus the multi-layer bag was created out of necessity. Testing would have revealed this flaw before manufacturing thousand of wrappers, but it was not deemed necessary.  Apparently, at least in this regard, Aerus has learned nothing from history, but as George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

As such Trebor, should be an easy fix for Aerus. 

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I had a few bags left out of a box and also bought a new box when I purchased the vacuum. Then when I sent the bags for testing, they sent me another box. All 3 had the same issue. I also have a pro care upright. I cut one of their bags and compared it to one out of each stock I had. Procare glues their inner layer in several places including the seam where the inner layer overlaps. Aerus does not have as many glue spots and the seam where it overlaps is not glued on the seam. Thus the problem, the cyclonic action with the new more powerful motor pulls the inner layer off of an area of about 2 to 3 inches for most of the length of the bag. Obviously I don't want dust and dirt penetrating the outer bag and going through the motor. I know I have a 20 year warranty, but I have always taken very good care of my vacuums and always use the original bags that were designed for that machine. I recently purchased the new upright that matches the Lux guardian ultra. I cut the upright bag and it is the same way the canister bags are, not glued on the overlaping seam. I haven't checked it to see if the inner layer is pulling away yet. I will let you know when I do.

This kind of all started when someone on this forum asked the question. Did Aerus check the bag for performance in the new machine, since it had a more powerful motor?  I had to go look............

Sincerely,

Bud

budmattingly wrote:

Bud,

You're absolutely right.  I suspect the bag maker blew it.  Aerus needs to redeem a whole batch of bad bags and get new and better replacements.

If you haven't already, you may want to fit some a piece[s] of the bag material cut to fit the rear end of the machine's bag holder to serve as a filter barrier.  This should keep dirt/dust overflow from the bag from penetrating the motor.  The greater problem of the Aerus bags.

Carmine D.

What your seeing is the end result of outsourcing. When corporate decided to sell off the machines and tooling to eureka aka electrolux, They take what they get from china and have to live with it,UNTIL THE CONTRACT EXPIRES

This has been going on for a long time , and now that the factory is retooled the quality control is being handled again in house.

The last good bag was the grey silveado bags................

mole

mole wrote:
Hi MP:E,

Wow! You're talking way back to the mid-70s. I bought a Silverado in 1974.

Venson

Hi Big V

If you bought a silverardo in 1974, you must of bought a prototype, It was not released till 1982.

Maybe you bought a SUPER J also a great machine,i liked the lightning bolts on the bags,they were yellow in color,B.T.W. theres a problem on the blue bags also its with the couplings.SOMETHINGS GOT TO BE DONE, Also its not a bad idea to staple the pleat At the bottom of the bag.

KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED, I have also replaced many late model motors because of bag breakage and dirt seepage into the fans, The new vortec style motors are not as rugged as the older motors, the rpms are into orbit and are very dust and dirt sensitive,unlike the old workhorse motors. I believe the ddm motor also has this same problem.

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:
Hi MOLE,

Oops! You know -- you're right it wasn't 1974. That was the year for a used Pontiac Firebird and a new Filter Queen with the little German-made PN. The Super J was bright gold in color so that couldn't be it nor was it the bronze model, the Olympia One . I do remember well buying the Silverado while working at a Manhattan type shop just up the street from the dealer at the time. I assume I must have bought the Silverado after I moved from Manhattan, around 1981.

Eventually I passed it on to my best friend, and can vouch for its durability as it survived his cleaning man for almost 20 years until my friend passed away in 2005. I also had given him a Hoover Concept One upright with power drive which did not fare well. Apparently the power drive freaked the cleaning guy out.

That said, of all the bagged vacuums I've used or owned I have never experienced a disposable bag break with an Electrolux. Have you?

That I always attributed to the contained space of the bag chamber. The most bag-break prone I recall were the Lewyt's using the Speed-sak.

Venson

mole wrote:

Hello Mole, Venson:

Perhaps, the Golden J in 74-75 to commemorate Lux's 50th Anniversary? 

Agree on the stapling the seam.  Excellent idea.

Carmine D.

Bud, noise levels solved

Lux has come out with a solution for the high pitch/noise levels these newer, more powerful motors produce.  They have taken what looks like a nylon mesh pot/pan scrubber and inserted it into the exhaust port on the Legacy and Classic models.  Does it dampen the noise???  YES!!  BUT, I brought out my Baird airflow meter, and the airflow has now  dropped about 15% or so.  What a great idea     I don't believe they are installing this on the Guardian, but you could ask your dealer for the material as it will still fit yours. 

Vernon

Vernon,

That is where they fitted the hepa filter on the new machine.

Bud

Bud,

If you were to remove your hepa filter and look into the hole where the air is discharged, this is where the "sound filter" is pushed in.

Vernon

I finally received an answer to the bag issue. They concide that their is a problem where the inner layer overlaps and said they have taken measures to correct the problem. They assured me that it does not significantly effect the performance of the bag in any way. Obviously they will make sure the inner bag is glued at the seam and perhaps in more places along the inner bag surface. Wonder how long it will take to get the new bags in? I would imagine they will try and sell whatever stock they have before sending out the new stock.....

I guess until the bag problem is fixed, I will change it every 3 or 4 weeks, depending on use. It almost makes me want to put the perfect vacuum hepa bag in, but I don't want to void the 20 year warranty. The cardboard is thicker on the perfect vacuum bag. Don't know if this would cause a problem shutting the lid with the thicker carboard or not? Seems like it would....

Bud

budmattingly wrote:

Hello Bud:

Thanks for the post with the Aerus response.  Changing more frequently until the corrected bags are received sounds like the best approach.  I too believe the thicker cardboard bag collar poses a potential problem for the Ultra G operation.  Even if you fit it with force, the integrity of the collar may be degraded causing a worse problem for dirt and dust by-pass than the weak bags.

Carmine D.

The bag chamber and front door on the Guardian Ultimate is basically the same as any other Lux style C bag canister.  The perfect hepa bags work just fine, I have been using them for more than a year now.  If anything, the bag collar is far sturdier than the Lux ones.  Put a Lux bag in a Perfect canister, and the cardboard collar will separate into two as the suction/airflow is far greater in the Perfect.  (Been there done that)  I have not had a Perfect bag do this in a Lux application.  The door is a little harder to close, but that comes from the rubber gasket that is on the inlet, it can only compress so much.  Where you will notice a problem, if you want to call it that, is the little piece of cardboard that covers the inlet.  The Perfect bag is much more difficult to pierce through, as the collar is much thicker.  Once this is done, opening and closing the door really isn't that big of deal. 

Vernon

Vernon wrote:

Hello Vernon:

Thanks for posting.  Sounds like a winner.  One question/concern is the 100 percent sealed HEPA system of the Ultra G.  By not using the bag designed and recommended for it, would/could the Lux perfect HEPA compromise the sealed HEPA system? 

Carmine D.

How would any of you say these new Lux's compare to a Miele S5 canister? How would you say the older Lux Guardian 9000 compares to a Miele? EDIT: Also, are the latest Aerus Lux's still made here in the U.S.A?

Hello? Anybody?!

Hertz wrote:

Hi Hertz,

You're talking apples and oranges.  Lux has its own following and so does Miele and both probably always will.  Both clean satisfactorily. 

Personally, I've used Luxes for years but have never been impressed with the power nozzles. I do like Lux better since the HEPA after-filter has come into play but to my knowledge there is still no facility for a pre-filter.  Necessary?  Maybe.

Also there has not been much talk of impressively quiet Lux operation.

I own a Miele S5 and though I think more should have been thrown into the deal regarding price, I am more than satisfied with its performance.  The power nozzle has a sophisticated height adjustment -- so does less expensive Kenmore.  The hose handle puts complete control of the machine and PN right under my thumb.  I can thoroughly clean anything from thick broadloom to a scatter rug with little problem. Nice but also not news as there are a few other brands that can accomplish the same. 

So, what's the big deal for me?  Filtration.  With use of high-filtration Miele bags the bag chamber stays clean as a whistle and I like that.  Despite this bags filtering capability, there are pre-motor filters also supplied.  I like that as, after sale, I feel my investment has been as thoroughly protected as possible by the maker.  My biggest complaint about my Miele Capricorn is that the paint job isn't all that great OR durable.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the color is all the way through on Lux's plastic body machines.

By the way, the issue of place of manufacturer is being recognized too late.  If we as Americans had been more aware of the problems that would come from farming out supply and manufacture sources for things we want but don't need things might be better presently. Asia did not invade this country and hold guns on us and demand we buy its goods.  That was the work of overly ambitious American entrepreneurs looking to buy low, sell high and gain maximum profit no matter the cost. Nonethelees, its a little late for judgement calls don't you think?  The cat is out of the bag and the horse is out of the barn. 

Venson

Thanks for the reply Venson, but I am really liking the Lux's engineering and desing; straight line build where there's bag, then motor, then filter, in that order - nothing besides eachother. I also really like the automatic shutoff, too. However, I'm really torn between a Miele, Sebo, and Lux. They're all great machines, but the ticker for me would be whether or not the NEWEST, LATEST Lux's are still build in the U.S.A, and when I called Aerus, they said they still were, so that's great B) So yeah, they're all incredible vacuums, that's for sure, but actually the REAL ticker for me now is whether or not the newest Lux's like the Legacy (or even the older Epic 6500), and Classic are COMPLETELY sealed, like a Miele? I know they're not HEPA, but they're damn near close, so that's not an issue, but what WOULD be an issue if there would be ANY AIR coming out of like the cord rewind and such with the Lux's. Could you verify that they are completely sealed or not?

Air escaping out of a cord rewind outlet doesn't neccessarily mean that air is escaping from the motor or the bag area. I've never felt or heard any of the UK cylinders I've had which do this and that includes Hoover's venerable old Telios.

No, of course the air travels through the bag area first, but after it gets blown out of the motor, on nearly EVERY vacuum out there besides the REAL high end ones (and maybe even some of those, too) air will escape out of the cord rewind and all sorts of places. Meaning the vacuum isn't *sealed*. This is what makes Miele so famous, as well as Sebo. Kirby's and FilterQueens are also COMPLETELY sealed, except for the separate motor cooling port on the Kirby which only blows out carbon dust, so it isn't a big deal. I'm nearly CERTAIN that Electrolux's - the REAL, AERUS ones - are sealed, as I just talked to a guy who rebuilds them and he says "all the air comes out of the blow hole" Can anybody else verify that the newest and latest Aerus Lux's are Miele-Like sealed?

If I am not mistaking, I thought the E-lux had air go through the cord winder and hole on purpose.  In order to cool the cord that may still be coiled.

Maybe this is just something I picked up and stored out of context, but it always made sense to me.

Hertz wrote:
Heres a little insight to why miele  is pushed and sold at indys.

Quite a few dealers tell their customers that miele is a german electrolux, And i bet that your mother and aunties  really loved their electroluxes didnt they.

The secrets in the bag cage, take a look.

regards

MOLE

Thanks for not answering my question mole. :P I'm wondering in terms of build quality, performance, and noise. I am actually looking at DYSON right now B) I'm really starting to dig their design and cleaning power and features, but I still am really interested in Miele and Aerus.

Hertz,

    The Legacy, 6500 and all canistersof that body style are sealed. They use after filters where the blower is.

So there is absolutely *NO* air leakage and escape ANYWHERE else around the machine except for the blower hole?

Hertz wrote:

To my recall, new Luxes can be used for blowing -- a great but no longer much appreciated feature.  Air leaks before the blower port would defeat the purpose.  The less delivery of suction or blowing power a vacuum supplies, the less desirable a machine it is.

If you've ever taken one apart, the metal models from the 1205 on had a cord real that's a module of sorts.  The cord and rewind mechanism are all inside a closed case.  This is almost teh same as with the Model G whose cord reel was also in a contained module with a pass-through for exhaust air and a port for hose attachment.  It fitted onto the cleaner with screws I think but there was a rubber gasket in place to stop air leakage all around  where it attached to the body of the canister.  Again -- no air leakage.

The Lux plastic body models all can serve as blowers in the same fashion and thus I'd think that yes, Luxes are basically "sealed systems."

Venson

That is fantastic. Thank you guys SO much for all your responses!!

Venson, Hertz, an Just

    On the two style of bodies that were metal and had built in Cordreels ,the Model G and 1205, SuperJ style, had either  an Aluminum tube (G)  a plastic tube from the cordwinde section to motor section. This was a bleed off to let the motor breath if the hose got clogged and give you enough time to shut off the cleaner without burning up the motor. Today since the Diamond Jubilee there is a thermostat on the motors to protect them .

  If you ever put your hand over the tubes  I described  you would find the air is pulled in not blown out because the motor is sealed to the  bag compartment.

                                                                                    Procare

procare wrote:

Hi Procare,

I just popped the top piece off my 1205 and found the black plastic bleed tube attached to the cord winder.  I don't havee a G in the house, just a Model 60 and a Canadian Model 89 (my favorite).

Venson

procare wrote:

This is so very cool! See, that's JUST the thing about Retro Lux's - or even newer Lux's - is that they LOOK simplistic (sometimes even not), but they are VERY complexly designed to aid in superior performance of the machine. Very cool B)

Hertz wrote:

Besides savvy regarding attachment design, the real marvel was the automatic shut off.  It was an adjustable mechanical device composed of a diaphragm and tubing that reacted to the strength of airflow at the bag mouth.  As air flow lessened there, suction via a tube attached to the diaphragm increased until it created enough of a vacuum behind the diaphragm to cause it to pull a lever that opened the cover latch after which a spring loaded mechanism turned of the power supply. (I think I got that right.)

I believe there was an electronic set-up to achieve the same later on.  If it is still in play, I do not know.

Venson

Venson wrote:
The New guardian ultra, rennies, 8000's, 9000's and a  few other oddball models use a control board with a built in pressure switch.The 6500,7000,legacy use the the mechanical set up,

The tube running from the bag cage to the winder housing was eliminated when the  diamond J came out, this was the first machine with thermal overload sensor along with the HI-TECH 2100.Plastic body automatics do not pop open like the metal body unit.And the controls were moved to the top trim.

It was thought that the tube was to keep the cordwinder cool,

MOLE

This is all SO very cool, and makes me want an Aerus of a Miele B) It's either Aerus, Miele, Sebo, or Dyson for me, or maybe Dyson and any of the first three B) Probably a Dyson and an Aerus B)

Also, what's the performance like on the latest Aerus's? They evidently have "439" air watts, which is more than some central vacuums!!! 0_o. Are these really as powerful as thought?

Ok I will put my two cents in. I have the new Aerus Lux Guardian Ultra. For the price it should have multiple speeds. I find that this cleaner has so much suction, that it is actually a deterent when doing curtains, upholstery. The relief valve on the hose handle is useless. When I try using the sidekick on the sofa, it actually stalls out. Same with a bedspread. While I am a die hard Electrolux fan, I have to revert to my Miele to do the more delicate chores as noted above. Somehow Aerus needs to address this problem by coming up with a larger air relief valve or a variable speed motor. This vacuum is also extremely loud and high pitched compared to earlier models.

Bud

budmattingly wrote:

Ok, but in terms of cleaning on straight up carpet or hardwood flooring, which machine would you choose to do the best job possible? Why?

Both machines clean well on carpeting and hard floors. I do not care for Miele's floor brush, so I would have to go with the Electrolux.

Bud

Which machine feels better built to you? Also, do the Lux bags have any plastic on them or are they more environmentally friendly than the Miele bags? Finally, if you had to CHOOSE between the two machines, which one would YOU pick, and why?

Sorry for this post. Meant to send a pm.