Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #63 Jun 20, 2009 3:51 pm |
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HS: I'm using dyson provided air watts data for comparitive purposes about dyson canisters. I made a conclusion supported by reasonable minds here that a DC22 brush bar motor has 30 percent less suction power than a 5 year old DC11 and newest DC19 T2. That's constructive criticism based on dyson provided spec data. Take off the rose color dyson glasses and be honest and objective about the shortcomings of your favorite brand and models. Carmine D. Are you now saying that air watts are critical for performance?
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #64 Jun 20, 2009 3:51 pm |
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DIB: Whenever posters here put the dyson chatter to a scrutiny of confirmation/verification, the dyson posters' response is to impugn/kow tow the questions/questioners. You, like your dyson cohorts here, suffer from rose color dyson glasses' syndrome. Carmine D. Carmine, Not it all. We are only a handful nationwide/worldwide who point out the rampant dishonesty amongst many non-Dyson independent dealers and including the false-Dyson dealers (those who enjoy/profit from Dyson’s warranty work and nail/nearly nail their new and few Dyson’s to the floor). DIB
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #65 Jun 20, 2009 4:05 pm |
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Are you now saying that air watts are critical for performance?
HS:
Dyson uses air watts as a measure of performance for his products not me. I made a logical conclusion about dyson canister models based on dyson's standard of measure for performance. A 30 percent reduction, if we are to believe dyson's standard as relevant to performance, is significant. Or, should we believe that dyson's own measure of air watts is irrelevant and insignificant to dyson performance? Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #66 Jun 20, 2009 4:10 pm |
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Carmine,
Not it all. We are only a handful nationwide/worldwide who point out the rampant dishonesty amongst many non-Dyson independent dealers and including the false-Dyson dealers (those who enjoy/profit from Dyson’s warranty work and nail/nearly nail their new and few Dyson’s to the floor).
DIB
DIB:
Your [and your dyson cohorts here] defense and support for failed dyson products and the shortcomings of existing dyson models undermines your vacuum judgement and credibility not the nebulous vacuum industry dealers you speak of in the generic sense above. Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #67 Jun 20, 2009 4:16 pm |
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Why would an inventor/manufacturer who’s selling/been selling in Japan for sometime, sell or license his inventions to another manufacturer? Where’s the advantage?
DIB
DIB:
As I opined, dyson needs the M-O-N-E-Y! Cash. Capital. Carmine D.
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #68 Jun 20, 2009 4:28 pm |
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HS: Dyson uses air watts as a measure of performance for his products not me. I made a logical conclusion about dyson canister models based on dyson's standard of measure for performance. A 30 percent reduction, if we are to believe dyson's standard as relevant to performance, is significant. Or, should we believe that dyson's own measure of air watts is irrelevant and insignificant to dyson performance? Carmine D. I asked what you think and not what Dyson advertises. Are you going to tell us what you think or continue to twist around the question? If you are afraid to answer just be honest and tell us that.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #70 Jun 20, 2009 7:58 pm |
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I asked what you think and not what Dyson advertises. Are you going to tell us what you think or continue to twist around the question? If you are afraid to answer just be honest and tell us that.
HS:
Would you like me to repeat myself. Here it is once again: 200 airwatts for a DC22 is a far cry from full size power when and if compared to a DC11 's 5 year old 275 airwatts and the latest DC19 T2 with 280 air watts. The dyson site calls a DC 22 full size power. I didn't. A reduction in performance by 30 percent is not ONLY a loss of 30 percent, as you would have us believe. It's a loss of a huge 30 percent of performance. As I opined before, the smallish 7 inch cleaning swath on the DC22 rug nozzle is not for the sake of manueverability [as some dyson fans here would like us to believe] as much as its due to lesser performance power. The rose color dyson glasses are obstructing your reading and comprehension. Not to worry. I can repeat myself for you until it sinks in. Hello Trilobite: Thanks for the DDM motor schematics. Very interesting. Your pictures pigued my interest. I checked the official dyson specs of the canisters on the dyson UK web site. Interesting results. Dyson's 5 year old DC11 with an encore presentation has 275 air watts. Newest dyson DC19 T2 cann has 280 air watts. DDM DC22 has 200 air watts. 200? That's a far cry from full size power. I'm even suspect of the nice even 200 number. Does the DDM motor actually deliver suction power equivalent to industry standard vacuum motors? Especially at the exorbitant price. The reason for the smallish 7 inch rug nozzle on the DC22 may be the lesser suction power and not the maneuverability in tight spaces. Carmine D. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jun 20, 2009 by CarmineD
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #71 Jun 20, 2009 8:11 pm |
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i honestly thought that airwatts was about as close as you could get ...a combination of waterlift and airflow.....an overall output i guess you could say. if im wrong then what is the correct way to get the overall output,,
Air flow and air watts can be skewed. There are many variations in the resistance to air flow that should be considered when measuring air flow. Air flow may not be a measure of system performance. In addition to the resistance within the power unit, there is resistance caused by air turbulence in the hose and tubing, restriction where the cleaning nozzle contacts the floor, as well as increased resistance within the filtering system as the unit fills with dirt. High output (air watts) is not the only factor to consider in determining performance.
I would think that sustained air watts is a better indicator of performance than is peak air watts. Carmine, Mole, Venson, Dusty and many others are much more qualified to answer this than I. Carmine is just being timid or cantankerous. I suspect the latter. 
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #72 Jun 20, 2009 8:16 pm |
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Are you now saying that air watts are critical for performance?
HS:
I have always maintained that air watts plus proper brush agitation are critical for rug cleaning performance. Always. The dyson supporters here, going back to the beginning of dyson's DC07 launch time when I first criticized the sub-par petite non-industry standard brush bar in the DC07, claimed the higher air watts more than compensated for the whimpy brush. An opinion that I disgreed with. Put the 2 shortcomings together: Lower air watts and a poor brush roll design and you have a formula for poor performance for cleaning and grooming rugs. Carmine D.
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