Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #73 Jun 20, 2009 8:19 pm |
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HS: Would you like me to repeat myself. Here it is once again: 200 airwatts for a DC22 is a far cry from full size power when and if compared to a DC11 's 5 year old 275 airwatts and the latest DC19 T2 with 280 air watts. The dyson site calls a DC 22 full size power. I didn't. A reduction in performance by 30 percent is not ONLY a loss of 30 percent, as you would have us believe. It's a loss of a huge 30 percent of performance. As I opined before, the smallish 7 inch cleaning swath on the DC22 rug nozzle is not for the sake of manueverability [as some dyson fans here would like us to believe] as much as its due to lesser performance power. The rose color dyson glasses are obstructing your reading and comprehension. Not to worry. I can repeat myself for you until it sinks in. Carmine D.
Agreed, a 30% loss is substantial. However, others and I believe you have contended in the past that Dysons high air watts were useless as factor in determining performance. I believe that this may have been said because Dyson higher air watts than some favorite brands. Perhaps the 30% loss will affect performance if the vacuum is designed properly in other ways (which I doubt that it is).
These rose colors are better than the drab ones you see. 
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #74 Jun 20, 2009 8:22 pm |
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HS: I have always maintained that air watts plus proper brush agitation are critical for rug cleaning performance. Always. The dyson supporters here, going back to the beginning of dyson's DC07 launch time when I first criticized the sub-par petite non-industry standard brush bar in the DC07, claimed the higher air watts more than compensated for the whimpy brush. An opinion that I disgreed with. Put the 2 shortcomings together: Lower air watts and a poor brush roll design and you have a formula for poor performance for cleaning and grooming rugs. Carmine D.
Poor suction and a fantastic brush will only cause the dirt to be pushed out of the vacuum path. Looks like a double edged sword.
Now quit posting until I am finished. Go to the casino or ride the roller coaster. Have a good week end too.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #75 Jun 20, 2009 8:23 pm |
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Air flow and air watts can be skewed. There are many variations in the resistance to air flow that should be considered when measuring air flow. Air flow may not be a measure of system performance. In addition to the resistance within the power unit, there is resistance caused by air turbulence in the hose and tubing, restriction where the cleaning nozzle contacts the floor, as well as increased resistance within the filtering system as the unit fills with dirt. High output (air watts) is not the only factor to consider in determining performance. I would think that sustained air watts is a better indicator of performance than is peak air watts. Carmine, Mole, Venson, Dusty and many others are much more qualified to answer this than I. Carmine is just being timid or cantankerous. I suspect the latter. 
Not news HS. The persons you name, including me, have said for years here that both brush roll design/function and air watts are critical to rug cleaning and grooming. You and your dyson cohorts kow towed and impugned our conclusions. You are just believing and claiming an epiphany. See what happens when you take off the rose color dyson glasses. You agree with us and claim it for yourself.
Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #76 Jun 20, 2009 8:28 pm |
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Poor suction and a fantastic brush will only cause the dirt to be pushed out of the vacuum path. Looks like a double edged sword. Now quit posting until I am finished. Go to the casino or ride the roller coaster. Have a good week end too.
HS:
It's not a double edged sword. It's a dual combination [good suction and industry standard brush roll] for a winning vacuum success. Even dyson now agrees after a number of years and tries. Don't ride roller coasters. Already been to the casino today and did very well. Thank you for asking. Tomorrow is another day. Carmine D.
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #77 Jun 20, 2009 9:28 pm |
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HS: It's not a double edged sword. It's a dual combination [good suction and industry standard brush roll] for a winning vacuum success. Even dyson now agrees after a number of years and tries. Don't ride roller coasters. Already been to the casino today and did very well. Thank you for asking. Tomorrow is another day. Carmine D.
I can't recall saying that a good brush was vital. I would still take straight suction and NO brush as opposed to a great brush and NO suction. The latter is like the old bissell sweepers or an Oreck.
All carpets do not require the same type brush.
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retardturtle1
Joined: May 16, 2009
Points: 358
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #78 Jun 20, 2009 9:38 pm |
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Air flow and air watts can be skewed. There are many variations in the resistance to air flow that should be considered when measuring air flow. Air flow may not be a measure of system performance. In addition to the resistance within the power unit, there is resistance caused by air turbulence in the hose and tubing, restriction where the cleaning nozzle contacts the floor, as well as increased resistance within the filtering system as the unit fills with dirt. High output (air watts) is not the only factor to consider in determining performance. I would think that sustained air watts is a better indicator of performance than is peak air watts. Carmine, Mole, Venson, Dusty and many others are much more qualified to answer this than I. Carmine is just being timid or cantankerous. I suspect the latter. thank you H.S for the info...i thought airwatts was measured at the hose end ,in the brushroll chamber...for a truer reading and not at the motor....thought thats how the cent vac industry did it....at the end of the hose...for a true reading?
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Venson
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #80 Jun 20, 2009 10:06 pm |
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</p><BR>thank you H.S for the info...i thought airwatts was measured at the hose end ,in the brushroll chamber...for a truer reading and not at the motor....thought thats how the cent vac industry did it....at the end of the hose...for a true reading?
This is once again a case of, "If you dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with BS." Even machines with the best suction lose something in the translation by the time you get airflowing at the hose end or floor nozzle. Body seals may not always be tight enough, hose connections may also allow for leakage and even friction may diminish suction. (One of the reasons that household vacuums never usually have overly long hoses.) Badly designed wands and attachment locking mechanisms may also attribute to the same. Not many manufacturer are up to the challenge of honsetly stating what suction measure as at the motor's air inlet and the final percentage of a hundred percent that finally arrives on the floor or at the end of your hose. If we had vacuums that could deliver a close percentage of hte motors actual draw, we could again use machines that use less power Venson
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC11 is Back!
Reply #82 Jun 21, 2009 7:08 am |
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If we had vacuums that could deliver a close percentage of hte motors actual draw, we could again use machines that use less power
Venson
Hi Venson:
The advantage of the fan first uprights of years gone by and ORECK and a few others still today. Carmine D.
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