Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://gizmodo.com/345918/dyson-dc24-vac-sir-james-brings-his-ball-back

Two models, one small, one large :-

DC24
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC24-ALLFLOORS

DC25
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC25-ALLFLOORS

(Wrong HS.  Your question is a logical contradiction.  You don't comprehed my answer.  You don't buy companies that go belly up.  It's called bankruptcy: Liabilities exceed assets.  The court appoints a liquidator and the sales of the company's assets go to pay down the debts and payoff the creditors.  Usally pennies on the dollar.  In other words, the company is not an ongoing business concern any longer: It's out of business.  i.e. Circuit City, Linens-N-Things. You're confused again.  Dyson is headed towards bankruptcy.  It's signatures models are extinct:  DC07, DC11, DC14, DC 16, DC18, DC20, DC22, AirBlade, wheel ball barrel, rotating washer, etc.  Poorly selling products lead to huge sales and discounts, huge sales and discounts lead to yearly operating losses;  and yearly operating losses lead eventually to bankruptcy. Carmine D.)

- Carmine, I'm certainly confused as to your definition of the word 'extinct'. In the sense you're using it, I would take it to mean that the products you list were abject failures and have been discontinued because of their poor sales performance. But the DC07's only just been phased out after an 8 year production run. The DC14's still in production, as are the DC16, DC20, DC22 and Airblade. The washer was certainly a disaster by anyone's standards, but did you know a revamped version is coming to the US market? Not to mention several other innovative kitchen/household appliances?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article6211410.ece

~ Model2 ~

Hello Model2:

With height adjustments added as the latest feature on dyson's DC28 upright, it admits that its floating nozzle head is a farce.  I posted on two previous occasions that all the previous dyson models w/o height adjustments are NOW obsolete by dyson's own standards.  The prices for these obsolete models, as they become discontinued, will drop drastically by big box retialers.  Obsolescense breeds and leads to sales extinction.  

It took dyson 7 years, much too long, in the US to add height adjustments to uprights.  At least 8 different upright models sold in the USA w/o the height adjustments over the last 8 years and still [DC07, 14, 15, 17, 18, 24, 25, 27] are now on the path to extinction.  Discontinuation leads to huge discounts, which leads to losses, and losses year over year, leads to bellying up. 

Dyson MUST reconfigure itself as a niche vacuum brand, down size, retrench, and sell off unrelated products.  Else, like its models w/o adjustments, in concert with its many product flops, it will be extinct. 

Carmine D.

I noticed the patent for the Dyson kitchen top appliances recently. They sound a great white goods concept, if they ever made it to production.

A kitchen appliance with a basic function as a toaster can be brought at a very inexpensive price if style isn't a big issue. The only real way to add value is with limited enhanced functions like LED countdown timer + set programs. Branding + styling is another area, as demonstrated with Siemen's Porsche-designed kettle ($160 USD)... but, well we all should be familiar with Sir James' opinion of style over substance.

Thinking about real world examples of kitchens for friends and family the Dyson application here make a lot of sense. Frequently, there are more main plugs than sockets, so a common power supply would be a good improvement. In some inner-city areas, the demand on new builds is so high that they're typically specing three apartments where there would have previously been two, making kitchen space even more of a premium. Expresso coffee machines have become very popular in recent years, but can take up a great deal of valuable space.

Other Dyson patents in recent months describe a coffee machine in a reduced form factor (due to arrangement of the grinder (digital?) motor, in a cube shape with a retractable nozzle. Another filing details a juicer which is smaller than usual and is more efficient in operation.

What would be advantageous from a marketing point of view, is that a small, inexpensive 'starter' cube would be an ideal gift item, while providing a great opportunity to sell further appliance cubes to the recipient as time goes by. Say a person receives a 'kettle cube' as a gift, if they begin to appreciate its benefits, there would be great temptation to add a 'toaster cube' to it, to reclaim another power-point and the worktop space. Clearly, they'd be paying a slight premium for the added convenience aspect, yet the 'toaster cube' needn't cost much more to manufacture than one of those budget toasters - which represents a really attractive business prospect.

I'm surprised to hear that the Dyson washing machine might well get another launch in the near future. James Dyson admitted in an interview recently that while the basic premise was sound, they were incredibly arrogant in what they though people would pay for it and the huge costs involved with becoming established in this established market. Both points they overcame with the vacuum cleaners, but the false confidence was to cost them dear... at least to date.

CarmineD wrote:

I don't understand why you feel that a multi-tier mainstream upright line-up - the premium-priced DC28 with height adjustment, the DC14 (which is being superceded by the 27 anyway)/17/27 without height adjustment, and the DC24/25 with the Ball - can't co-exist?

- DC14: Entry-level basic wheeled upright, to be superceded by the DC27

- DC27: Basic wheeled upright

- DC17: Mid-ranged wheeled upright model with core-separator

- DC28: Premium-priced upright model with height adjustment

- DC24: Compact steerable

- DC25: Full-sized steerable

I don't understand why this upright range means that Dyson need to kill off their more basic models, or risk extinction? If you want to see a complicated upright line-up, go to http://www.hoover.co.uk/ and look at the number of uprights they offer: The Slalom and the Freedom are the flagship models, but look at the mess of 'Dustmanagers', and the baffling array of different features, cyclonic systems (all awful,btw!), wattages (although they use the same motor in all of them, rated at 2200w. The ones which says '1700w' etc are simply mis-represented to make the model appear more basic)...

Please understand, I'm not trying to sound hostile or argumentative, I just want to understand your reasoning.

~ Model2 ~  

Hi again Model2:

As I said to HS, he and others here are brainwashed by dyson propaganda.  As I said too, you can't compare HOOVER USA to dyson USA.  Probably true for the UK.  HOOVER is a mainstream floorcare product seller.  It's understandable that it has a mature, full, and complete product line for all manner of household and commercial vacuums and floorcare products.  Dyson is a niche vacuum seller.  It's efforts toward wanna be mainstream are futile and laughable.  Dyson is high priced bagless only, period.  End of the story. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

That doesn't exactly answer my question...forget the comparison with Hoover for a moment. And whether people are brainwashed or not is a matter of opinion, it has nothing to do with what I asked.

You speculate that your perception of Dyson's position within the US market is 'probably true for the UK'. To enlighten on this issue, you might be interested to hear that in unit sales, the current market leader is Vax (a TTI-owned company, of course!), followed by Dyson, followed by Hoover, Electrolux and Bissell, who fight for third place. Dyson are the number one brand in sales-value, the DC14 being their biggest-selling model. Dyson actually outsell Hoover here, despite Hoover offering seemingly-similar technology at a lower price. I can't say this more plainly: Dyson are every bit as mainstream as Hoover in the UK. To quote a friend who is a senior-level employee at one of the companies mentioned above - 'Our biggest obstacle is that people don't go into stores asking, 'which cleaner should I buy? They go in asking, 'which Dyson?'. This never becomes clearer in my street than on Saturday mornings, when all the neighbours are out on their driveways, cleaning their cars - almost every house has a Dyson. Sebo, Miele, Dyson...they're all priced roughly the same here, and generally under £300. A niche product here would be the TOL Miele S7, for £375,  the Oreck XL21, for £420, or the Kirby Sentria, for £1600+

If Dyson have become the mainstream benchmark in the UK, why shouldn't they do so in the US? A company facing financial ruin and extinction would not be pouring money into R&D for expansion into a new, more diverse product range, and yet I currently count seven non-vacuum cleaner appliances which Dyson are currently developing.

CarmineD wrote:

You are the brainwashed one.  I know how you must hate to tell us why Hoover went belly up.

Dyson did it to them.  You know.  The manufacturer that introduced numerous models in an attempt to stay afloat. Each time a new model was introduced (about every 30 days) you predicted that it would be the demise of Dyson.  You also said that VAX and others were stealing sales at BB and that Dyson was doomed.  I still see the bid D in all stores as I have for years.

Dyson is not the only manufacturer to suffer in these poor economic conditions, however, they survived the good times which can't be said for Hoover.

I will now respond to your follow up in advance of reading it.  Hoover is not alive and well.  Only the name remains. It ain't Hoover that you hawked for years. 

You speak of niche vacuums.  What the heck is Oreck?  An electric broom favored by the weak and elderly. Also recall that each time a fault is found you try to dismiss the fault because it is not a full sized vacuum.  That makes it a wannabe and alnost toy like.  Maybe that is why it can't handle baking soda.

Dyson kicked you in the peanuts as a consultant and then kicked your recommended brand.  No wonder you hate them so badly. 

Maybe you and hoover should have worn a cup.  Oh, I almost forgot.  You and hoover did not have cups back then, only bags.

Hello Model2, and HS:

I answered both your questions several times.  You don't accept/understand my answers.  Why?  You're brainwashed by your favorite company's dyson bagless bin propaganda. 

Propaganda is a matter of fact.  It's documented by dyson's legacy in the USA.  The idiosy of a clutch.  Sub par, sub standard brush roll.  Floating head farce.  DC07's use of an old inexpensive one fan Panasonic motor.  Used simultaneously in Pano's cheapest upright for $60.   Dyson mantra: Doesn't loose suction, doesn't clog.  Ball technology is laughable nonsense in the vacuum industry.

Dyson has to recreate itself as a niche vacuum seller [strictly high priced bagless].  Divest itself of all non-vacuum products. Downsize markets and employees.  Retrench by cutting irrelevant and unprofitable R & D on products that lose money in the market place or like the DDM DC22 never sell in all markets..   Else like its falling vacuum market share in the UK, risk inevitable extinction and obsolescense.

Carmine D.

PS for HARDSELL primarily and on the margin for MODEL2:

You can't compare dyson to ORECK as niche sellers.  Why?  ORECKS are sold primarily through a network of ORECK stores nationwide.  By last count over 500.  Opening more all the time, despite the economy.  And also sold through independent vacuum stores.   Dyson'ssales venue has always been primarily big box store retailers.  Big box retailers are another dying breed in the current economic tsunami:  i.e. Circuit City, Linens-N-Things.  Who knows which others bellying up in the months to come.

A note on an unrelated industry but a product of teh times: FAO Schwartz [100 year history as a niche toy seller of high end quality toys like Steiff stuff animals] bought out by Toys R US, a main stream toy seller.  KB toys went belly up even before the Christmas 2008 Season.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

There you go - yet again - with your whole 'brainwashed by your favourite company' joke. It's rather a feeble attempt at humour that wasn't funny to begin with. Now it's just tiring, like watching the same bad sitcom episode again and again. Without the canned laughter. You know absolutely nothing about me - after all, why should you care? But your claim is particularly ironic considering which vacuum company I'm currently working with - it's certainly not Dyson, so the joke's on you!! Why is it you can't enter into a simple discussion without turning nasty when someone questions your thinking? I've read your contributions to the Vacweb forum, and you used to provide a lot of very interesting insight before you embarked on this campaign against Dyson, which seems to make up the entirety of your contribution nowadays.