Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Because of old age, arthritis and a bad back, I am retiring my Hoover which cleans OK but is hard to maneuver and weighs a ton.

Was going to buy Tacony 8 LB which is purported to be the same as the Bissell Prolite. However, there were some negative reviews regarding pet hair on the Prolite so I gave up on that because it seems my dog sheds half of his fur daily :-)

Then I considered the Royal MRY5000 at Amazon but cannot find reviews and Royal's website does not say if it goes from carpet to bare floors. They say the MRY6400 does but does not say the weight on the site.

Next for consideration is the Oreck Oreck XL2100RHB-2. This one has 2 speeds and that is a desirable feature. But I have read some negative things about Orecks so am conflicted while at the same time, seriously considering this machine.

Next, I saw a Hoover Clean and Light but don't know how good that would be either. It is supposed to be 2X the suction power of Oreck. Sounds good but why can't I find this vac on the Hoover site? One review at a seller's site makes me believe this would not be good for my use. For example, I would love to be able to vacuum throw rugs or mats without them being sucked into the cleaner. And I like the idea of going from carpet to bare floors like you can with Oreck.

My dream vac is a Simplicity Freedom F3600 but the price is too steep for the budget ... especially when you add in sales tax.

I don't want a Dyson because the commercials are a little too slick and frankly some reviews of their machines were not all that great. I kinda feel that if it seems to good to be true, it probably is not true.

Any comments on the above mentioned vacs or suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris

Venson wrote:

It is very simple.  When looking to make a purchase, you do price comparisons.  I have said it countless times before.  When you look for a Simplicity or a Riccar, find the other brand in another shop and see what they are selling the comparable model for.  Work w/the salesman and tell him that you were at the other brand's shop.  When looking for a vacuum, shop around.  That is very old advice from many.  After a shopper has done the research, he/she can go to the shop and see what the shop owner can do.

When you purchase a tube of toothpaste, do you find out what the MSRP is.  What about coffeemakers and TV sets?  No.  You see what everyone is selling them for.  So why should vacuum purchases be different?  Look at auto purchases.  Do you start at the MSRP when you want to make a deal w/the salesman?  Experts tell you not to.  MSRP is, in a sense, artifically high.  About a month ago, I did research  for a new LCD TV.  I researched the different brands and their features.  I searched cost of product, and s/h if applicable.  I found a quality brand TV w/1080p on clearance.  When I was still thinking,  the salesman asked me what he could do.  Well,  he lowered the price.  I took it and have been very happy since.  The point I am trying to make is how often do you really look at MSRP when making a purchase?

Mike_W wrote:

Typically new product on the market especially TOL sells for MSRP [or close to it] and does so until the market [consumers] meets the demand for the new product.  Then, the product prices are lowered from MSRP and set more in line with competition.  Basic marketing and sales/price theory.

In the case in point, a TOL SIMPLICITY model 3700 sold for $240 off MSRP.  That's a discount of 34 percent.  That's a very excellent price discount for an independent vacuum store.  A sign of the times, no doubt.  Chris got a buy for the times.

Look too at the HOOVER TEMPO price.  Sold before the Consumer Reports MARCH 2009 ratings for $50-$70.  Now big box stores are selling for $79.99.  Higher than even the HOOVER MSRP for the model.

http://www.hoover.com/searchresults.aspx?type=&keyword=HOOVER%20TEMPO

Another case in point, the EUREKA Boss Smart Vac.  Two consumer magazines consistently rate it a BEST BUY year after year.  Sells always at the MSRP $140-$150.  Never discounted.  And its been around for 6-8 years maybe more, just like the HOOVER TEMPO.  Both are consistently top sellers among big box stores. 

Again, it's sales/price theory at work in the market place.

Carmine D.

Just wrote:

Another perspective.  Look at the refurb/rebuilt prices for the brand and model[s].  And compare these to new prices.  If the rebuilt prices are bandied around at lower and lower prices [trending lower over time], then so will the new selling prices for these models.

Carmine D. 

Mike_W wrote:
Hi Mike,

Just for the record -- I don't buy toothpaste but use peroxide and baking soda instead. The product isn't as fancy but offers a better result than any toothpaste I've brought from the store.

To tell the truth, my personal shopping habits for more personal and directly applied consumable necessities are more influenced by product than price. You'll finding me going for the the extra cost if I know or believe the item will serve me. But, I certainly am not going to pay less for a brand of body wash that gives me a an allergic reaction or that has a feel or smell I don't particularly like. However, I do tend to by that kind of consumable at places where I feel I continually get a good deals. Even if the price of one specific item is a bit higher than I care for I feel I'm of the game if the remainder of my purchases are satisfactorily. You win some -- you lose some. I'm not the type to spend a dollar on gas to save fifty cents on a bar of soap. However, finding a good vacuum, fridge or TV does move me to the most thorough looking around I can do.

I normally do not go store to but do go use consumer opinion as offered at epinions.com and the websites of many online providers to help in my assessment of the worth of a certain product. They say lot more than the text provided by the vendor to pitch product. Matter of fact, some opinions are so much to the contrary to the worth of some items, I am surprised they were allowed to be shown. I take if for what is and it appears at least a tacit effort on the vendors' part to be up-front.

I use nextag.com, pricegrabbe.com and eBay to get an idea of top and bottom prices. Certain brands like Miele, Riccar/Simplicity do not appear for other than prices regarding bags and belts.

As for Carmine, judge me as you will, I considr him a friend and am accepting of most of his assessments. He's been in business and I have not. I have no expectation of him, you or any vendor -- present or past -- that I may associate with here or elsewhere, online or off, as far as forthright statements regarding the actual cost of goods as opposed to the MSRP is concerned.

However, I am a staunch believer that you can learn as much from what is not said as from what is said. As an instance, by way of managing an office, I began to learn that all manner of things can be considered tax write-offs especially for those those in business. The bosses newspaper subscription falls under the category of marketing come tax time. A moot point but it flies.

Using "marketing" and "advertising" as two examples and please correct me if I'm wrong, may I then presume that a "give-away" though certainly a wonderful gesture of good will may not be a loss at all if it can be written off?

Reflecting again on what I've seen regarding business, I have also seen a company lose a bread-and-butter client of many years by over-speaking with merely the intent of proving how "good" we were being to them. The process of laying out an explanation in regard to the output of over-quantities being a normal part of that specific industry's way of going about work led to the client's questioning by way of its assessment of past bills. The reason being the client was told it had just been "given" overs. The question was of course, "If you can give them way why did you charge us before?"

How does that relate to this? Knowledge is a key and knowledge not just of the MSRP but a reasonable idea of wholesale price aids potential buyers in assessing if an item in question is worth the expense it will incur. When I look at the MSRP against sale price I am striving to make as accurate an assessment of mark up. If supposed mark-up seems fair to me, I buy. If it does not, I either say so or walk out of the store.

I hate the math as this issue is more algebraic in form than of the plain old "one and one equals two" kind. Yet, I pursue since I do like to know what I'm paying against what it actually cost to supply a costly item to me for purchase and in no way generally am ready to accept a given vendor's say-so. Note, that statement is in no way meant to besmirch everyday, honest vendors.

As for MSRP, as Carmine has noted, generally TOL items initially hit the stores either priced to match or to fall near MSRP. Seems to be what I've seen the like of all along and is understandable. Everybody's looking to make. manufacturer's are eager to quickly recoup funds ventured for the development and making of new product lines and vendors are eager to reap the harvest in regard to new items popular in interest to the public.

Also, having had the experience of buying a new machine well below the MSRP I still remain curious as to what it actually cost the dealer and how the deal works. I bought a vacuum with a $1,195.00 MRSP for $900.00. I also bought a vacuum with an MSRP of $995.00 for $700.00. As far as the sale end of things went, I knew what I felt was acceptable to me to pay and went straight into the store and told them what I wanted and what I was prepared to give them for it.

Case closed but even though I got what I wanted at the price I wanted, who couldn't help but wonder how much it actually cost the vendor due the maker's suggested price. You stated the MSRP means little or nothing and if that's so it would seem manufacturers would do better for themselves by dropping the practice.

There are many other things to think on when factored into price thus having an idea of wholesale price may well prove a boon to shopper decisions. If a vendor sells a well-made product a with suggested price of $1,000 to me for $700 and I know it cost him/her maybe $400, $450 -- whatever -- I am comfortable with the deal. As I've stated I do not expect to be given anything. BUT -- I do want to know what my potential savings by way of fair profit may be by way of vendor A, B, or C. I also know I will never be told that and feel that I and every other consumer best serve ourselves by trying to find out as best we can before we buy.

Best,

Venson

Hi Venson:

I'd say over the years we see eye to eye on the big issues for the most part.  If not, we usually agree to disagree like gentlemen and not take it personally.   

WRT give-aways, bags in particular, I usually made the "goodwill" gesture to "close" the deal if a customer was hedging.  If the customer wanted and asked for the make/model by name and was satisfied with the price, no need to swallow the cost of a pack of bags. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

I can appreciate that however, per a thread a while back, there was a discussion of the price/worth of bags. My line of inquiry was how much could it cost to make four vacuum bags especially those that sell for $17.00 a pack. I recall that some members here, all vendors I believe, felt the bag in mention to be worth every penny. I wasn't necessarily convinced of that but in this light my feeling is if I were giving away salable stock as part of regular vacuum sales -- if allowed I probably add it to my tax return under whatever category fit the bill if the item was of significant cost.

This is not a major issue for me but it would be nice some day to get a real line of perspective regarding value and posted price.

Best,

Venson

Hi Venson:

I recall the thread and discussion.  It's not the wholesale cost of the bags that is foregone by the store owner/operator when the bags are tossed in free.  It's the retail price.  When its done as a matter of sales routine it gets expensive. There is no write off for free bags.  It's a foregone sale that is lost.  And it costs money [out of pocket to the store owner/operator] to replenish the giveaway stock.  Twice as much.  Don't get short handed on the bag stock.  And, tell a customer you ran out and come back the bags are on order.  You just lost a parts sale and possibly more.  How do you put a cost/price on that giveaway?

The deal maker for me was always the warranty.  As a warranty dealer for the new vacuum brands I sold, I would tell the customers, I'll keep the new product registration card on file in my records.  If the product fails out of warranty, I can work with the product maker to get it covered past the warranty period.  That was the icing on the cake.  If I made the sale but the buyer was still hesitant [buyer's remorse] that was the goodwill gesture that made the buyer a happy camper.  Of course, I told the customer, please don't broadcast this to others.  Worked much better than the free pack of bags. 

Carmine D.

BTW, the latter [the warranty] was the edge [the wild card] I always had over the big box stores selling the same brands and models.  ALWAYS!  It worked.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Good morning Carmine,

That was cool. I have never been offered or heard of any dealer doing the like. I imagine it's a near impossibility to replicate that kind of service that these days. Did you have to intervene on the customer's behalf often?

As for the big boxers, BestBuy in this case, I notice I'm no longer being asked whether I want to buy service/replacement contracts anymore while checking out purchases at the register.

Venson

Hi Venson:

The warranty wild card was for cases where the customer was a few days/weeks/month out of the actual warranty period and hence unable to claim the benefit.  A few times, in over 40 years, I played the wild card.  Much to the delight of the customers.  But it was much more a feel good feature than an actual customer need and/or cost to me.

I suspect WRT to ESP-s, most consumers by now are well versed in the ways of Consumer Reports which typically admonishes buyers against them.  Just more evidence that CR is more used/read among American buyers than many here care to admit and give it credit. 

Carmine D.