Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

On housekeeping, maintenance and carpet care sites are dire warnings NOT to use a rotating brush vacuum because it will 'untwist' and 'fuzzy' the tips.

On the Shaw site, it uses the word "shag" in quotation marks, implying cable,shag, and frieze fall under the same maintenance requirements.

So, what would your top picks be, both vacuums and attachments, for vacuuming frieze,cable, and shag carpet? Some include berber in this suction only maintenance category, along with handmade rugs. So, what do you say should be used, considering some carpets have a 10yr. appearance retention warranty provided the care instructions are followed.  

http://www.beaulieu-usa.com/floorcarefiles/Maintenance/vacuumingtips.pdf

http://www.bestvacuumstore.com/select.htm

from the above website:

Shag Carpet Shag carpeting, an icon of the 1970’s, has been resurrected and today is frequently called frieze (pronounced frizz-ay), or California shag. Better carpet fibers and improved manufacturing techniques are creating a carpet with good looks and good wear capability. However, shag carpet demands the correct type of vacuum cleaner as you can literally destroy a vacuum, and even the carpet itself, with the wrong choice. One of the challenges of having a shag style carpet is that if you were to actually read the manufacturer’s warranty, you would find that the warranty will be voided if you use a vacuum cleaner with a spinning brushroll. Carpet fibers are really quite durable on the tip. However, with shag, the fibers lie down rather than stand up, and the brush will actually scrape fibers off of the yarn and eventually wear it out. A traditional vacuum cleaner with a brushroll should NOT be used on a shag carpet! One of the dirty little secrets of the situation is that while this is true, your carpet can’t really be cleaned without some sort of agitation. Some manufacturers make tools that appear like a rake and have good success with removing some items stuck in the carpets. But in the end, there is a reason that vacuums have brushes that spin—because they do the best job of agitating and grooming the carpets. Some of the varieties of shag MAY be cleaned with a vacuum cleaner with a brush roll, but it’s absolutely essential that there is a manual height adjustment and that it is used so that the brushroll touches the tips of the fibers and does not dig down into the side of the yarn. This is delicate issue, but if you are interested in exploring this option, please bring a piece of your carpet so that we can determine whether or not this option will work for you. I repeat that using a brush will invalidate the warranty on your shag or frieze carpets. For longer shag, a canister with a straight suction nozzle, or an upright vacuum where the brushroll can be turned off, is the right choice. In addition, the old-fashioned tool called a carpet rake is also recommended for grooming the carpet and fluffing the yarn strands before vacuuming. If you have frieze or shag carpeting, come see us today for the right vacuum cleaner and tools.

sorry, I accidentally posted before I was finished

http://www.shawfloors.com/cms/Articles.aspx?DN=1127,1112,1106,29,4,Documents

from the above website:

Select the best vacuum for your type of carpet

Shaw recommends using vacuums with a rotating brush or combination beater/brush bar that agitates the carpet pile and mechanically loosens soil for removal. Carpet with thick loop pile construction, particularly wool and wool-blend styles, may be sensitive to brushing or rubbing of the pile surface and may become fuzzy. In addition, shag (or cabled) styles with long pile yarns tend to wrap around the rotating brushes causing damage to the yarn.  For these products, Shaw recommends a suction-only vacuum or a vacuum with an adjustable brush lifted away from the carpet so it does not agitate the pile. Be sure to test a vacuum with a beater/brush bar in an inconspicuous location before regular use, to make sure it doesn't produce excessive fuzzing.

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This thread was started not for myself, but for friends who are shopping for replacement carpet for their lower level.

Based on the sketchy, vague, and sometimes conflicting information I have found, I would say before purchasing ANY frieze, cable, or shag carpet, or hand made rug for that matter,

it would be adviseable to obtain (on manufacturer's letterhead) the specific recommendations and requirements for routine maintenance and cleaning, citing the specific style and model number, so there is no 'wiggle room" on the warrany down the road. Some 10 warranties are doubled, provided specific padding is installed. Corporations can be bought out in 20 yrs. Cover you fanny as well as your floor. It's a whole lotta cash we are talking about. Stainmaster has invented a new level of protection, that takes it's name from the lotus leaves because of their inherent soil repellant properties.

If they proceed with the frieze, I think I will check into the new Lindhaus "Bernoulli" nozzle featured in VDTA some months back. With an adaptor it should work on their Lux Guardian

Trebor

Hello Trebor:

Many vacuum brands, like ORECK, do not adjust for different carpet types [no manual rug height adjustment].  Per the ORECK HOME CARE CENTER staff, and in my own words:  Unless you have "really long shag" style of carpet [aka frieze] you don't need adjustments to your vacuum.  They are merely extra parts that will break in time.  Keep in mind, ORECK doesn't have a brush roll shut off.  Doesn't need it!

In particular, because of the light weight of the ORECK head nozzle and vacuum, the ORECK vacuum does not get weighted down in the rug.  Which necessitates the manual rug height adjustment for full size vacuums on medium to high pile carpets.  I suspect that the ORECK-s do well on cable and low to medium shag rugs.  Why?  ORECK has consistently been approved by the Carpet and Rug Institute [CRI] on all styles and types of carpets.  It was one of the first vacuum brands, if not the first, to receive the CRI approval over 30 years ago and still today with the revised CRI green label.  As the ORECK HOME CARE CENTER staff say the ORECK-s will work on all rugs save the "very long shag."   If ORECK doesn't, the buyer can return after 30 days of a free in home trial.  What more? 

I'm not pushing the ORECK on frieze and any other carpet styles to anyone who doesn't want/like ORECK.  But, even with the least expensive ORECK XL model's recent fall in the CR standings, the basic ORECK upright, with the smaller, less powerful motor, and less aggressive brush roll, rates a good in rug cleaning, excellent in barefloor cleaning, excellent in emissions and excellent in pet hair pick up.  And it's 10 pounds, a lightweight.  The weight of most stick vacuums on the market today. 

Carmine D.

Somehow, I still don't think I have made my point. We know what ORECK says, and we know what CRI says, however, neither of those entities supercedes  the MANUFACTURER's right to invalidate their own warranty for improper maintenance. Some frieze carpets have 10 year appearance retention warranties, and simultaneously, as a condition of the warranty, specifically prohibit the use of vacuum cleaners with a revolving brush roll. I know you, Carmine, would not have such a carpet, but I am asking this forum IF someone did, and asked for a prescribed vacuum cleaner,(s) and rug tool(s)  which one(s) would you suggest? Or what modifications would you suggest to a vacuum (any you suggest) to use on the frieze? I clean house for these people, and they have money to buy whatever they choose, but if she wants frieze, he will go along. A central vac has been out of bounds for consideration, that might change with the purchase of the frieze.

Trebor

Hi Trebor:

According to the maker's quote you cited in your post, there are TWO "qualifiers" to the blanket disqualification of a voided warranty with a revolving brush vacuum.  First, if the vacuum has a manual rug height adjustment.  Second, if the shag/frieze buyers bring in a sample of the carpet style [presumably with their own vacuum of choice] for a test.  Seemingly, the maker would grant a waiver to the warranty disclaimer if the vacuum is acceptable to it. 

Tho, I haven't researched, I would be interested to know if Shaw and other rug makers and marketers of frieze are CRI members.

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:

Not entirely true, Trebor unless.................  I would take my ORECK upright in and exercise the option of the qualifier.  Why?  My dear Wife loves her ORECK!  If the rug maker agreed that the ORECK is acceptable and would warranty and my Wife liked the carpet, I would purchase.  When it comes to home furnishing decisions, my dear Wife has the final word ALWAYS!  Hence, Mohawk wool carpets w/o chemicals for stain resistancy to harm our epileptic yellow lab. 

Carmine D.

Aaaaarghhh! My question still remains unanswered!

Carmine, I am not asking what you would do IF. I am asking what vacuum(s) and rug tools(s) would you recommend to the person who has a frieze carpet and cannot use a rotating brush vacuum cleaner on it? I am thinking Pro-Team, because it is the highest suction/airflow canister I have found to date. The 1 1/2 " diameter hose could be fitted with a 1 1/4 adapter for any standard fit wands/tools. Is there a possibility of modifying a vacuum to better clean the carpet? I am thinking slower rotation, very soft widely spaced bristle tufts.

The manufacturers need to 'come clean' on this issue and use the correct terminology. A rotating brush is not a beater bar, and vice versa, but they are used interchangeably. In fact, I suspect a stainless steel beater bar with a bristle strip as I described would do an excellent job. The issue is this, the ends of the frieze are twisted back on themselves. The typical action of a rotating brush is to pull the twist out of the fibers, causing them to "bloom" or have what we call split ends in hair. My thought is that a soft bristle with widely spaced tufts would sweep up loose debris between the yarns of the carpet without pulling hard enough to untwist them, which is why the use of a rotating brush would be prohibited in the first place. A store trial of a vacuum is unlikely to be sufficient to test a vacuum for damage through repeated use.  But if the frieze were a given, and rotating brushes were prohibited, what would you choose to vacuum it with?

A store trial of a vacuum is unlikely to be sufficient to test a vacuum for damage through repeated use.  But if the frieze were a given, and rotating brushes were prohibited, what would you choose to vacuum it with?

Sorry, Trebor:  I don't have the answer you want to hear. 

You are posing a hypothetic question based on 2 presumptions that are at a minimum uncertain and more correctly inaccurate.  First, the maker qualifies the use of a revolving brush IF the vacuum has a rug height adjustment [so vacuums with rotating brushes are not prohibited].  This makes most big box store vacuum brands eligible for the frieze maker's warranty.  Second, the frieze rug maker gives the buyer/user an option to petition for a waiver to the warranty void, in advance, with a test. 

Presuming that the rug maker's first qualifier doesn't exist is incorrect.  Presuming that the second qualifier automatically leads to the rug maker's disapproval is an uncertainty.  In concert  [the marriage of an uncertainty with an inaccuracy] your presumptions take the maker's text out of context.  This makes your presumptions a pretext. 

Carmine D.

I have an answer for you. You might not like this , BUT there is not an attachment or vacuum cleaner that will clean this carpet with any effectiveness, its been the thorn in the side of the vacuum industry since it came into in existince, it might look COOL in the beginning, but after any usage of the carpet it will just become a dirt collector. The only power nozzle that even came close to semi cleaning this carpet was electroluxes P/N 4 from 76 thru 84, and at that they locked up within 3 months.I believe the carpet manufactures void the warranty on this type of carpet because they know their isnt a vacuum on the planet or attachment that will clean it, If you put this in your house plan on never getting it clean, unless you have it professionally shampooed every 3 weeks.........

I always thought that rugs wore out from the bottom up, due to the cutting edges on the sand and dirt in them,so how exactly is it suppose to be cleaned.I have concluded that it CANT...........

mole

Maybe it's not so much an issue of which type vacuum but more one of how to stave off problems before they happen.  If a carpet buyer is told up front that vacuuming with a rotary brush is not recommended but just must have that particular style of carpet, a practical solution to aid overall longevity and reduce wear potential is to count and measure of high traffic areas wherever the carpet is to be laid. The next move is to then have pieces cut to size and bound to fit in front of sofas, upholstered armchairs, etc., and at room entries.  Aesthetically, the look is not quite the same but it will aid in perserving the overall good looks of the carpet.  You can leave these extra pieces down for x-years and take them up if and when they show wear.   This is the same deal as when you buy upholstered furniture and use matching fabric coverlets to protect the arms from wear, body oil, etc.

Odlly enough, small carpets strategically placed in the same areas on wood flooring also helps to reduce wear woes.  I tried explaining this to a friend with three kids AND three dogs.  Apparently she didn't get the point and now major repair is in line for her wood flooring.

The manner of cleaning really depends a lot on what goes on in the household.  For those with homes with little traffic a straight suction vacuum may be just fine -- depending on the rug in question.  Cut pile, twist carpeting no matter how basically clean they may stay will need "livening up" and grooming to prevent matting with a vacuum that has a brushroll, However, I'd think you'd want to vacuum at least every other day if you're using a straight suction machine.

When I was a kid, though we didn't have carpet as fancy as Berber, et al, rug care was no problem.  The living room was seen as special.  My grandmother, a fastidious housekeeper, just let out a yell for us to get out of the front room.  But what's a house if those who live in can't enjoy all of it without worry or expectation of extra work by way of traffic and/or spills.   I'd say that any carpet that does not allow for its being vacuumed is probably only best for homes where there are no major challenges like pets, children and heavy traffic and the home owners or decorators should seek alternate choices more suited to their lifestyle.

Venson