Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Having another topic mentioned some new vax machines on a Littlewoods website, I had a look around to see what else might be new and came across the 'new' Dyson DC27 Upright, see link below:

http://www.littlewoods.com/rf/s.do?Np=1&Ns=&Ntk=littlewoods_search&Ntt=dyson&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&Nu=this_product&pageSize=12&Nao=0&cmEvent=page_navigation

They have 2 Models on their website 'Animal' and 'All Floors', first look suggests an update version of the US DC17 but for the UK\Europe markets.  This will be the replacement for the popular DC14.  I thought a separate motor for the brush bar like the DC17 would have been standard, but looks like it uses the DC04\DC07\DC14 clutch setup!   Not sure as the website doesn't say if it just has a slim root cyclone technology or the core is included!   It does look like it has more small cyclones than the current DC14 and DC15 and DC25 models.  See picture of DC27 All Floors model below!  DC18

 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

mole wrote:
Mole,

I would like to see the Filtrete go against Dyson filtration.  So why hasn't the $24b 3M Corporation bellied up with some data disproving the $1.5b Dyson claims?  And why does 3M insist on using the technobabble language of “low pressure loss” as apposed to “clogging”?  The masses understand “clogging” not “low pressure loss”.  And/or why does not 3M publish results from testing standards to determine if clogging occurs as Dyson freely does?

DIB

It's not 3M's job to advertise for vacuum cleaner companies.   Their customers are the vacuum manufacturers who are provided with evidence of the superiority of 3M products.   The actual implementation of the vacuum bag inside the vacuum matters for both air flow and filtration. 

As for Consumer Reports, they do note that the problem with Dyson is during the dumping of the dirt in the canister.  The dirt is contained in the 3M bag when the bag is removed.  With the Dyson canister, it is recommended that people with allergies wear a mask because the very small dirt particles are likely to float up into the air during the dumping process. 

DysonInventsBig also wrote:  "I always enjoy hearing from the UK, especially when information is presented accurately.  Does Which Magazine rely on hand outs (free money) to survive as does Consumer Reports?  If my memory is correct, I believe Consumer Reports takes in million[s] of dollars in free hand outs annually.  Neither do they pay any sort of income tax, yet they still come up million[s] short every year.  CR is a bias rag when they can get away with it.  CR does not publish the names of individuals or corporations who “donate” monies."

Consumer Reports does list the names of donors in the magazine.  It does not accept any corporate donations, so you are wrong on both counts.    It is utter nonsense to claim bias just because your favorite vacuum didn't do well in Consumer Reports. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Model2 wrote:

I don't know about "Which?", but I believe Consumer Reports does buy 4 or 5 of each model tested to allow for variability among sampled vacuums. 

the biggest weakness in CR is in the test methods selected.  If CR tested on carpet like what Carmine has, for example, they would have rated the Dyson models with clutches, as unacceptable.   On low pile commercial type carpeting, Dyson would likely rate very well, provided there isn't any pet hair to remove. 

CR does send the vacuums home with employees to get in home vacuuming experience, but they don't conduct any tests based on in home experience.    They use standard carpets made for testing of vacuums. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus:

Thanks for posting the corrections about Consumer Reports and clarification about 3M's bags.  Just to update those who may not know, I have Mohawk wool carpets with medium pile and backing.  This is a commonly purchased rug upgrade by homeowners.  I have carpets in the bedrooms only.  These rugs are not a problem for my ORECK, assorted HOOVER-s [not self-propelled], EUREKA and others [some of which are vintage], which navigate and perform on the rugs with no effort.  Since the failed attempts with a dyson DC07 pink, even with workarounds suggested by dyson tech reps and HELPLINE, I learned from posts/links here that Mohawk industries has voided its warranty on any of its carpets if dysons are used.  Unfortunately, as a rug/vacuum consumer you don't find this out until after a dyson purchase.  I suspect if I chose, I could return the over 2 year old DC07 pink which is gathering dust unused in my daughter's home, for reasons of the voided warranty.  But I haven't tried.  My grand daughter loves the color!  Tho she calls it papa's vacuum.

I always thought dyson would have an edge up with Consumer Reports because dyson's primary sales venue is big box retail stores, and CR is biased in favor of those brands and models.  New dyson models always get quick/speedy reviews by CR unlike other brands that have to wait years.  But as we know all dyson models save the DC17 manage only fair to middlin reviews.  Worst of all are dyson ball models.  On this one issue, I agree with DIB: These dyson ratings and rankings because of the high dyson prices, serve to seriously negate dyson sales.  [As do rug manufacturers' voided warranties].  Only saving grace is the CR reliability data which places dyson second for uprights.  But CR qualifies the reliability data and readers reliance on it because of the relative newness of the dyson brand in the USA.  Be interesting to see how they fare in the future.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

3M and its stockholders make money by selling as much Filtrete product as possible.  3M controls their own packaging and public statements...  so where is this so-called “evidence of the superiority” (over Dyson filtration)? 

DIB

P.S.  I would not mind your insults if you had a grasp on your topic/s.

"3M and its stockholders make money by selling as much Filtrete product as possible."  DIB

Actually, DIB, more correctly "post-it" products.  Those little yellow and/or multi-color paper stick ons that you see all over every where in academia, businesses, offices, homes you name it.  I usually have a stack within arms reach of telephones, computer, TV's, book shelves, desk draws.  I don't know how I lived without them, and I recall when they were invented.  Talk about pure and simple genius.  And profiting from and by it.  Acquaint yourself with the post it story and its inventor.  It's the invention success story that is routinely taught and discussed by all teachers worth their salt.  Being praiseworthy of all forms of innovation, invention and technology, no doubt you feel exactly the same way as me.  Profit was never the motive for post-its.  Necessity was.  How does the saying go:  Necessity is the mother of invention.  But I'm sure being the banner waver for technology, you already know the facts front to back.

Filtrete paper bags and filters are just a small semi-related aside to the MMM core business.  Albeit a very profitable aside as you said.  I believe successful companies and businesses call it "growing your business."  That's what good CEO's and business leaders do rather than sitting back and resting on their past laurels.  Just another stroke of MMM genius to make life better and easier for people through applications of its products to the real world needs and demands of people.  Something you can quickly and easily identify with yourself. 

BTW, did you hear:  The Chinese, you know that 3rd world country with the lowest and poorest paid people working in squalor conditions that recently hosted the summer Olympics, might beat the USA and other world countries to market with an electric car that is chargeable from household electrical sockets [2010].  Go figure.  Even Warren Buffett has taken notice.  You know him.  That eccentric multi-billionaire who's best buds with Bill Gates and gives tens of billions of dollars to charity every year.  Maybe Wal*Mart stores will get the exclusive sell rights to the new Chinese electric car and compete with the big time USA and global car makers.  I'd love to see it!

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Do you have any information or seen any science comparing Filtrete filtration against Dyson filtration?  Certainly, canisters using Filtrete filtration choke faster than do uprights using Filtrete filtration.  If Dyson filtration is better than the Filtrete (which I know it is), then Dyson cans are even that much better than cans using Filtrete filtration. - Do you know of any science that can prove otherwise?

God gave the inventor the Post-It concept while he fumbled thru his hymnal or Bible looking for hymns or scriptures (I forgot which it was).  He used a glue that was invented by 3M and that was previously rejected and thought worthless.  After marring the “note” to the glue it was rejected by the 3M suits until the secretary of the CEO fell in love with em (the Post-it) and got her boss “hooked on em”.  Am I close?

Earlier you were claiming inventors had a lesser role in society or were lesser at making money than suits.  I say the inventor was bless and the *3M suit (CEO) was lucky/fairly lucky.  This suit could be easily replaced, not this inventor or his idea.

Since Walmart withdraws $200b from Americans and pumps it into China, I see no reason why they should not succeed with an electric car.  Inventing is God given and has no borders, even the Nazi's had some inventors that built or conceived incredible, unbelievable and ahead-of-it-time inventions.  Does this make Nazi Germany good too?

Unless you have information otherwise, China remains communist and all the filth that goes along with that.  Perhaps you should move there and raise your pro-Walmart, pro-Bill Gates, pro-Warren Buffett flag as high as you can.


DIB

*Typically this is the case, although I have not studied this fella.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Yes, the science of smell.  As in the nose knows!  Read the posts below.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

So as to corroborate Bobby's conclusion above, Trilobite added:

Trilobite wrote:

Do you have proof to dispute the above?  Bagless, even yours, is terrible for pet owners like me and the 74 million USA households with 4 legged furry friends.  And millions more Americans who suffer from allergies and sinuses.  Like my dear Wife.

As a rule, you know your topic.  Where you fall short IMHO is applying the same logic to the facts and circumstances to arrive at consistent and correct conclusions.  Your conclusions are skewed/flawed because of your unfounded biases.  

A correction to your misquote above:  I don't impugn invention.  Obviously my MMM case!  Inventors and business people are equally important in the roles they share to make life better through the use of technology.  You tend to glorify a particular inventor/designer who is an excellent marketer in my opinion and very lucky [tho eventually luck runs out].  I say that engineers/inventors as a rule make "so-so" business leaders at best.  Their biggest business weakness is not knowing when to cut their losses and move on.   Steve Jobs is an obvious exception.  But Jobs had to first learn a very valuable lesson in humility by almost losing the company he help found.  He profited by the experience which made him a good business leader.  Pray for his health and well being.  And hopefully APPLE will handle his health issues/concerns with stockholders and stakeholders with honesty.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

That is the clue: a constantly rotating brush, especially on hard floors, can flick particles and allergens out of the airstream.

Who has used an upright with a constantly turning brush, and noticed grit, sand, or peanuts flicked out by the agitator?

UK Catalogue High Street chain Argos has the DC27 models on their website with some technical information on this new model:

1300 watt motor

255 air watts measured through the hose

Hose length 3.73m (catalogue says 16ft hose)

2.3 Litre dust bin

Available from February 2009

Interesting to see the motor wattage is lower than the out going DC14 and the air watts to! 

DC18