Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Having another topic mentioned some new vax machines on a Littlewoods website, I had a look around to see what else might be new and came across the 'new' Dyson DC27 Upright, see link below:

http://www.littlewoods.com/rf/s.do?Np=1&Ns=&Ntk=littlewoods_search&Ntt=dyson&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&Nu=this_product&pageSize=12&Nao=0&cmEvent=page_navigation

They have 2 Models on their website 'Animal' and 'All Floors', first look suggests an update version of the US DC17 but for the UK\Europe markets.  This will be the replacement for the popular DC14.  I thought a separate motor for the brush bar like the DC17 would have been standard, but looks like it uses the DC04\DC07\DC14 clutch setup!   Not sure as the website doesn't say if it just has a slim root cyclone technology or the core is included!   It does look like it has more small cyclones than the current DC14 and DC15 and DC25 models.  See picture of DC27 All Floors model below!  DC18

 

Thanks for the tip! I think you might be correct in saying that it's a replacement for the DC14.
I'd say it *looks* likely that this model will feature level3 / core cyclone, with the adjusted angle of cyclones and increased height at the top of the cyclone  chamber, with the tools moved on to the 'spine'.

I guess the pre-motor filter is on the side of the motor housing, like with the DC07? Unless they're super happy with the separation... Here's some more images :-

...and another image, from the front.

 'looks like it will be sold in the US via Sam's Club.

Your welcome M00seUK, thanks for posting the other pics.  Does look like core\level 3 cyclone technology.  The seal at the bottom of the bin is small and more cone shaped too!  Yes it does look like the filter housing may be on the side (pre motor).  Having said it may be just for the Uk\Europe as a DC14 replacement, looking around I found this link:

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=418376

So looks like a US version is available to, see DC27 Total Clean off this website (note the pre motor housing on the right...maybe!?).  There is no brush control dial below on this, and note the protruding airway on the front taken from the DC18\DC24\DC25 models.

M00seUK you most of been searching like me and found the US version!

DC18 wrote:
Of course - it's getting somewhat of a game after each snippet of info on a new Dyson model :-p

Good observation on the brush control knob. It would appear that in some markets there will be an entry level version where the brushbar runs off the main motor spindle, whereas other models with have a separate motor and a switch? It might be the first arrangement works well enough on 240v, but not with 120v? Speculation, as always!

Yes thats is definately the the case!

Very true, I just thought with the ball models that use 2 motor setup I thought it would be introduced on new models in the UK that do not use the ball technology!  May be the UK version will use a different brush bar from previous models like the DC14.

This is really interesting, I would have thought it would come out in the Spring but certainly not this early.  I heard the DC27 was basically a DC17 with a revised brushroll, so it it struck me as odd to see that clutch control.  One source told me it might be DDM-equipped as well, but considering what other Dysons I heard were supposed to be DDM-equipped in the US and did not turn out that way, I'm going to believe *that* when I see it.

Now I'm itching to see their new self-propelled model they will be releasing shortly.

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

Hello MH and dyson fans:

Appears there were several early rumors about a DC27 including it would have a DDM and also may be a commercial rated upright product.  But at $479 MSRP probably not the case for either. 

Glad to see that tho Wal*Mart and dyson could not come to terms on an exclusive model [during their most recent round of negotiations] that at least dyson could land a deal with Sam's Club Stores [also W*M but with much fewer stores].  Not sure yet whether it's in the Sam's Club Stores' shelves or just internet availability.  

WRT the latest DC27, does it have anything [features/performance] that's new and different from its predecessors?  May be too soon to know since ironically the model/specs are not on dyson web sites yet.  But DC27's are for internet sale on the Sam's Store Club internet site.  Letting the horse push the cart.

Carmine D.

I'm glad they moved the attachments.  It will be a tragedy if they didn't eliminate the clutch system as well.  I loathe my DC14 and think it must be the worst Dyson ever made.  If they come out with a self-propelled model, I will HAVE to get it.  I may eve sell my car... LOL

Thanks DC18.

Dyson’s been eliminating the pre-filter compartment above the cyclonic cluster for some time.  This Dyson hood (and Ball too) are [design] patented-Dyson Symbols that easily distinguish his technologies from the crowded and fiercely competitive market.  This Dyson-hood is not unlike BMW’s grill.  Bravo Dyson!

FYI, James Dyson and a couple of others are credited (named on patents) for these hoods (DC08 and DC17).


DIB

Your welcome DIB. 

Yes that is true, even on the earlier DC01, DC02, DC03 the pre motor filter was not part of the cyclone assembly!   Be interesting to see what the difference between the DC17 and DC27 is especially as there is a US version of the DC27!

DC18

Motorhead

The clutch versions are the UK\Europe ones, if you look at the front facing DC27 off Sam's Club (US) model no clutch set up is there!  The brush bar on that one looks like the DC17, and probably like the DC17 uses a separate motor to power the brush bar.  Be interesting to see if the UK\Europe ones with the clutch setup still has the same brush bar as the DC03\DC04\DC07 and DC14!  If there is not really any difference from the DC27 to the DC17, they could have 'tweaked' the DC17 for the UK market!   One main difference is the cyclone and bin setup to the DC17!   Here's hoping it has the DDM but I think not!

I would think they are for Spring release, well on the Dyson websites.   I would think the only reason the DC27 is on the web for catalogue stores in the UK is due to the new spring\summer book being out shortly (if not already!), and the new DC27 would appear in there so they would have updated their website!  Places like Argos usually show it in the catalogue putting a release date but it would not appear on their website until the release date!  Where as Littlewoods and Sam's Club have them available not to order!

I thought the DC27 was the self propelled upright!?  This must be the DC28 then!?  I think the DC26 is this corded handheld named 'knuckleduster' that is yet to surface!?

DC18

DC18,

The DC17 is one of Dyson’s best sellers from what I know.  I believe any DC17 replacement must have a motor driven brushroll at minimum and sequential cyclonic separation if possible.  The DC27 looks to be replacing the DC14 simply because it is about what Dyson can legally advertise...  can he advertise “Best overall pickup” on the 27 as he currently advertises and enjoys with his DC17?  The DC27 looks to be using Root filtration only.  Since the many mega-manufacturers are copying Dyson, selling cyclonic vacuums is becoming more and more of a horse race run on “value trade”.  But the floating head seems to be a Dyson favorite feature, to bad it will prevent him from EVER making CR’s top 5 rankings.  CR claims to have up to 20 million readers (not subscribers) monthly.  More and more I run into people who do not own Dyson because of its CR ranking.  I would expect Hoovers new multi-cyclonic w/motor driven height adjustment vac to rank higher at CR than any Dyson.  Perhaps Mr. Dyson should re-think the floating head and/or invent an entirely new head.

DIB

DIB

So the DC27 US version would have a motor driven brush bar but as the DC27 UK version is replacing the DC14 then the clutch version is used.  If the DC27 US version is a replacement over the DC17 then why is there no core\level 3 technology there if, well I suspect it is to be better than the DC17?  As for the UK version the smaller cyclones (which there are probabaly more than 8 small cyclones) will filter better than the DC14 probably better suction too, but the same clutch setup is no improvement over the DC14!?   I can see what you mean by 'value trade', but then Dyson is not about 'value trade' but that might be about to changeor has to change!  Yes Dyson's floating head is a feature of all his Upright vacuums since the DC01.  The reason for it then probably stands for the reason they still use it.  No extra switches\dails to bend down and turn\switch and 'fiddle' about with!   I've been saying for a while Dyson need to re-think the floating head!

One thing that still has not been learned on this DC27 is the limited access the cleaning head gives you!  Not only a re-think on the floating head but a redesign of the overall cleaning head\nozzle to give better cleaning access.  Take a look at the DC18\DC24 and DC25 they are going in the right direction, low profile cleaning heads!

The best floating head I have seen which auto adjusts without the users having to do anything is on the Sebo X4!

As you say the DC17 is Dyson best seller, I believe the same for the DC14 in the UK as before that the DC07 and DC04.  They are what we called Dyson's 'bread and butter' line.  The one out of the whole range that sells well.  So although the DC14 is due for replacement the DC27 has to fit into that slot where the DC14 is at present!  So nothing too radical a change from DC14 to the DC27 as not to loose that position within the whole range.  Which I suppose as you said 'value trade' comes in!

DC18

Hello all:

WRT floating heads, you might want to read Venson's post on his new S7 MIELE Tango.  In particular the floating brush roll.  I suspect MIELE, after 80 years in the vacuum business, and brand new to the upright market [at least with its own home grown product] took great care to get the first one right.  Knowing that it has one chance to do it and do it right so its loyal customers and those soon to be would be completely convinced and satisfied with the results.  Granted these models cost twice what new DC27 and most dysons sell for.  Performance is priceless. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

And the new and inproved DYSON [again] comes to a dealer near you in early 09, the new dc27 has new features such as ,six speed automatic transmission,with paddle shift, heated handle grip for winter time cleaning, new bright orange colors with gloshield for outdoor nightime vacuuming, and optional navigation system.

MSRP IN THE TWILITE ZONE..............

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

That is why Dyson costs more.

Looks like those Oreck freebies were pricey judging from its current financial position. Their cost certainly hasn't been R&D.

Dyson sales are off 30 percent this year year.  Frequently dysons [even DC24/25] are now accompanied by 20 percent discounts and mark downs from MSRP with buyer incentives!  Same as using giveaways for the ORECK sales!

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote: DC18,

I must admit to some confusion.  The cut-away illustration (UK image) shows a clutched vacuum on American carpeting and so I thought this was the American version.

Yes, the Sam’s Club DC27 is DC17-like (motorized brushroll, etc.) but refined and without sequential filtration (Level 3).

 I like to see the clutch eliminated altogether (here in the U.S), unless Dyson can engineer a clutch that works 100% of the time on all carpeting and area rugs.  By comparison, motorized brushrolls work 100% every time.  IMO a good amount of eBay Dyson refurbishes being sold are customer returns due to clutch-chatter or related.  The DC07 does chatter somewhat on my Berber.  Can Dyson afford to sit back and watch Hoover, Bissell and others take his market due to clutch-chatter or otherwise?

It does not bother me much when a Dyson will not fit all the way under some furniture.  I use floor tools on the wand/hose.  But Dyson makes his customers pay up to $50 (floor tool pricing) for this privilege. Give people a free floor tool and problem solved.  In the Dyson v. Oreck lawsuit, Dyson complains of Oreck damaging their sales when they advertise (exploit a Dyson weakness) how a Dyson cannot fit under furniture.  Dyson said it was untrue, and that a floor tool can be used with their hose/wand to vacuum.  But of course this comes with an additional [up to] $50 floor tool price tag.  The DC21 floor tool does not articulate (up and down) and is almost worthless to vacuum under furniture, and so the $40-$50 Dyson articulated floor tool is a must (its not somewhat better, it’s far better).  :)

DIB

P.S.  I always like hearing the Dyson and/or vacuum guys from the UK.  Keep posting.

DIB

Thanks for the reply.  No worries, I was surprised when I saw the DC27 on a UK website generally then to fine it on a US website.

I suppose the DC27 like here in the UK is to replace the US DC14!

Well it would have been a nice move away from the clutch on the DC27 for the UK version but we are not to luckly!   Must be a reason not to!  No Dyson can't afford to sit back but it looks that way!  He needs to 'dump' the clutch on the UK models!  Looking at just that one image there appears to be some improvements over the DC14, although I would have liked to have seen the Core\Level 3 on a UK Upright Dyson by now. One thing I'm still not sure is this 2 in 1 crevice and dusting brush tool!  The dusting brush is too small, I know from using the DC18 one!  The DC01 had a small dusting brush which was later changed on the DC01 'Absolute' model for a bigger one.  It's a good idea and works well on the DC16 handheld, but on an upright can make the slim crevice tool more bulky!  Another reason for you to buy one of the long crevice tools as an extra tool!

I can see where your coming from but I'm one of many that although the tools are to hand (and do like using them alot) you don't always want to be using the tools just for basic vacuuming of a room.  It nice to be able use to vacuum a room and get under low furniture without having get the wand out and go and get a floor tool out!  This issue was slightly addressed on the DC24 and DC25 $#%*, slimmer cleaning heads which was a slight issue on the original Ball DC15.   I can see where both Dyson and Oreck are coming from.  From Orecks point they adverise their vacuum to be able to lie flat and go under low furnture where as no Dyson can do that (only one ever did the DC03 - bring it back!!!), on the othe hand Dyson says a floor tool on the hose\wand can achieve this!   Like you say these extra tools to achieve this comes at an extra cost to the customer!  A floor tool was included on the top models of Dyson Uprights (UK) years ago like on the DC04 but they do not do it now! 

One thing always comes to mind, Dyson strives (which they do!) to make better products, surely this is an area along with the brush bar issue to improve upon!   The bulky head setup on the DC14 and DC27 and previous models can be an issue in the kitchen and vacuuming along skirting where cupboard plinths, pipes and radicators are in the way...stick out.  The DC03, DC18, DC24 and DC25 wouldn't have an issue!  

Don't get me wrong DIB, I do love Dyson Vacuums I'm just concerned they are not moving forwards with technology and design!   Before long like you say others will take their share away!

DC18

DysonInventsBig wrote:

It's an uber over simplification to blame the gawd awful dyson ratcheting noise [chatter is a euphemism] as the main reason for dyson sales being down 30 percent in 2008 and the high rate of customer returns/dyson refurbs.  Goes way and well beyond mere chatter.  However, I agree with you: The over engineered clutch on dyson's DC07/14 and still possibly with DC27 is utterly and completely useless.  I have several low pile but sculptured berber area rugs.  A dyson DC07 pink was useless on them unless I bend down and turned off the brush roll.  Then, the brush roll's grooming effect is lost.  The best dyson bagless upright ever produced IMHO is a DC07 All Carpets w/o the clutch.  It was made exclusively for Wal*Mart stores with an MSRP of $359.  W*M typically sold it for $309-$319 between 2003 and 2004.  Until W*M and dyson had a falling out, and they were giving them away for $50-$100.

I would add EUREKA to the above list of brands knocking off dyson sales.  For one reason, it is traditionally rated a BEST BUY by several leading consumer magazines.  As another, EUREKA frequently takes out full page ads in the weekly and monthly women's magazines.  Plus, as witnessed by posters here, EUREKA is capitalizing nicely on the latest and greatest in industry technology for bags and filters with the odor resistant, anti-bacterial, and improved filtration features.  For both its bagged and bagless models.  With a focus on a complete line of products for pet owners.  This is a growing USA market with 74 million 4 legged furry friends nationwide.  Most brands dyson too missed the boat on this market.  Dyson came close by labelling models as "animal."  But, what's in a name?

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

I don't blame you; I've had that feeling for some time.

It seems that Dyson technology advances two steps forward and one step back again. That DC27 (UK model) looks particularly uninspiring; what is it with Dyson's love of that clutch???

I was in a low-cost shop recently. They had non-name pattern belts for various uprights, Dysons included. What I found interesting was that there were belts for the DC03; a cleaner that has that clutch system; employing supposedly lifetime belts.

Trilobite wrote:

I haven't seen a DC27 up close and personal, so this comment/observation is strictly "speculative" to use other posters' term.   Dyson's latest DC27 appears to be a hodge podge of other models [save the ball].  Yes, it appears to have the infamous dyson clutch.  Why do seemingly acclaimed brilliant inventors/designers [who run their own companies] do this?  Perhaps......at the end of the model[s] production run[s], they take all the excess inventory of unused parts and components, put them all together, add a new model number, jack up the MSRP, and voila the inventory parts problem is solved.  In the auto industry, they call it 'limited edition.'

Carmine D.

There is nothing wrong (obvious) with a Dyson clutch, it's doing what it is designed to to.  The amount of downforce on the brushroll is the problem. Miele answered this delima (S7) with an air-bleed or speed control (I do not remember which was used).

floating nozzles.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote: Hi DIB,

Miele's top-of-the-line power nozzle solves the problem by offering several height adjustments as all vacuums should have.  Speed adjustments can also help fine-tune matters.  The S7 upright series has a floating brushroll - not a floating nozzle.  As well, all have an on the money electric shut-off that switches off the brushroll motor.  It's all a matter of a flick finger on the handle grip -- no stooping to get at a reset button --  to start either a canister's PN or the uprights up again should they stall.

My question would be since the Ball is supposed to be Dyson's piecs de resistance, why is the company still fooling around with its old design.  By the way the nozzle on the ball "floats".

Venson

Trilobite wrote:

Thats one of my concerns!  You could look at the DC27 (UK) as an updated DC14!  From looking at the first pictures a few improvements over the DC14!  After all the DC14 and the replacement DC27 is Dyson's main 'bread & butter' model (as we call it!), which is more popular overall!  So to make major changes could effect this base model.  The main 'basic' design of the cleaner head has not changed since it was introduced on the DC04, each model after having design changes made like the air vents at the back of the soleplate on the DC07!   After all the DC14 was introduced after issues from the DC07 hence the lower height on the bin and cyclone setup giving a better lower centre of gravity for carrying the vacuum.

I would have liked the DC17 setup on the DC27 in the UK, by that I mean a separate motor for the brush bar\roll.  After all the cleaning head is more or less the same as the DC17!  Also the use of Level 3\Core technology as well.  Who knows may be the DC27 is just an interim model and Dyson is working on something completely new!!  I believe each Dyson model (the full range for that model) product lifecycle is about 5 years!  Be interesting to see what benefits the DC27 has over the DC14!

DC18

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I've never had any issues with the clutch setup on any of my Dyson's since it was introduced on the DC03.  It was welcomed in the UK when it first appeared on the DC03 as the DC01 didn't ever have this setup!

It can be a job to bend down and turn the dial to switch off\on the brush bar\roll, you can so I've see use your foot to do this!  This was mainly marketed by Dyson when the DC07 came to the US. 

DC18

Venson wrote:

Quite.

DC18 wrote:  "Be interesting to see what benefits the DC27 has over the DC14!"

Not bloody much by the look of things!

Trilobite wrote:

One thing I'm interested to know is why the UK version has the same cleaning head as the DC17\DC27 US when it's clean the clutch system is being used and not a separate motor for the brush bar\roll!  Or does it have similar brush bar\roll as the DC15\DC18\DC25 ones used!?  Not sure if this would work with the clutch setup!

DC18

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Venson wrote:
Venson,

It is a good question.  Airblade commented that although many liked the DC15, it was determined to be somewhat heavy/felt heavy to turn.  IMO, until a “full sized” Ball/steerable can be made to feel light and/or come in at the “right” price point the non-steerable’s will remain.

Yes, the S7 or Oreck’s and alike do not float per say.  Yet, mechanically they pull themselves (@ the nozzle opening) into carpeting just like the floating Dyson.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi guys, new member here!

I'd suggest another reason for Dyson continuing with a wheeled cleaner in the model line-up is that there will always be a section of the market, particularly buyers 'of a certain age', who are put off by seemingly 'over-complicated' technology. It's hard enough to get these people to 'say goodbye to the bag' at all, after they've been used to traditional machines for so many years. Even if you can get them to consider a Dyson, the Ball, and the totally new style of cleaning it brings, is probably a step too far. They'll retreat into their familiar comfort zone and go for much the same type of cleaner they've always bought before .

As long as these consumers exist - as well as sceptics who look at the Ball, and the wheel retraction system and think, 'That's going to break in 5 seconds...' - there will be a market for a basic machine. From what I can see, the DC27 takes all the best features from the previous wheeled upright models and combines them in an updated, improved package.

Model2 wrote: Welcome.

I believe the DC27 looks to be Dyson’s best [clutch] vacuum, no doubt.  It is good looking too.

Point well made.  Just how many are put off, only Dyson and alike would know.  I was somewhat surprised when an “up in age” woman called into HSN to give her testimonial.  She lived (had to move to) Arizona for it’s cleaner air, etc. and was dependent on supplemental oxygen (and it sounded so)... boy oh boy she went on and on of her love for her DC18.

Oreck is trying to hype or promote it ability to steer or almost.  Below is a pic from a recent t.v. commercial.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

The DC25 is alot lighter to use than the original DC15.  The only issue which is probably why it's lighter is the small bin capacity on the DC25!  The new generation Ball DC24 and DC25 are a lot cheaoer than the DC15 when that came out so the price of the ball technology is coming down!  That may be due to the fact these ball vacuums are less complex than it's Big Brother DC15!  As technology moves on the ball technology will evolve as I'm sure we will see when the next lot of Dyson Ball Vacuums comes out in the future!

I think Dyson will always have a non-steerable upright vacuum in this model line-up! The ball doesn't appeal to everyone.  Plus wouldn't the ball vacuum require a floating head!? Haven't we said floating heads don't always give the best performance!?

DC18

Model2 wrote:

I agree there is that part of the market that certain 'group' of customers will stay clear of the ball technology! Saying that the new Dyson Ball Vacuums have been engineered to be less complex and more stream lined to the eye!  Also easier to operate and use compared to the Dc15, which I agree the DC24 and DC25 are!

At present I don't think the 'Ball' technology is that well grounded in the market to purely go full ball technology!  The 2nd generation DC24 and DC25 are a welcome step in the right direction to making this technology more of a main stream model for Dyson.  I believe as I've said on this thread before the DC14 (wheeled vac) is Dyson's base ('bread and butter') line that sell well and is popular!  Plus you get a variety of range within that model, the ball limits this to just 2 setups 'All floors' and 'Animal' with HEPA, well here in the UK.  Some people in the UK buy the basic DC14 (for carpeted homes only) where as the ball models don't offer this.  For some people they just want a baic vacuum.  To go full ball technology Dyson would be lossing out on some of it's market, hence the reason for the DC27 an updated improved DC14!  As Model2 says there will always be a place for a basic machine!

DC18

While I agree with many of the convincing arguments offered, I'm with Venson.  If the ball is all that then why in the USA does a DC25 have an MSRP of $499 and the latest wheeled dyson DC27 [bread and butter machine] retail for $479.  And even more confusing an old wheeled DC17 is $549!  Doesn't make sense to Venson and I.  Conflicting signals from the vacuum maker as to which IS the top of the line model.  Your best and most desirable model, whether or not the hoi polloi want and buy, should be the most expensive [not by $20].  A bread and butter machine should be priced much lower for the hoi polloi [not by $20].  Not that dyson ever follows the industry norms and standards.  I opine that the reasons are not as maverick as some here suggest.  If dyson can't get the 10 percent of its loyal repeat customers to go from a wheel [old fashioned] to a ball [the supposed best in technology for steering and manueverability, even with a same/lower MSRP than the wheeled vacuum], dyson won't get the other 90 percent of its past customers either.  They'll buy another brand.

While comments here say dyson's DC24 [3rd generation in steering/manueverabity considering DC18] is a step in the right direction, Consumer Reports [October 2008] rates lower than the worse ever rated dyson DC15 ball.  Getting a Poor in tool suction and Fair in pet hair pick up.  And CR's initial comments on the DC25, not yet reviewed and rated, are not very promising.  Recall my friend here DIB, a professed ball technology advocate and herald, paid only $300 for a DC15 ball.  If THE one here carrying the dyson ball technology banner won't pay MSRP for the latest and greatest dyson technology, who then?  IMHO, that's the crux of the reason for a wheeled DC27 at $479.  All ball dysons, DC24/DC25 included, will be scrubbed in a few years.  Same fate as ball wheel barrows.

Welcome aboard Model2.  

Carmine D.

Now if it was priced within reason, lets face it 400.00 plus for a cheaply made better than none of the rest  overhyped mis marketed,  does not clean any better than an bissel upright for 69.95,.then we might have something here........

If your inclined to buy a dyson,go to E-BAY  i know they are sold at cost and sometimes lower,the market is saturated with these,do yourself a favor and save yourself 100 to 200 hundred off M.S.R.P. Trust me the DEALERS are hurting and will do anything to unload machines.ALL BETS ARE OFF its a eat or be eaten economy,the strong will survive,

The next step for DYSON will be direct door to door sales, just like KIRBY, of course the pricing will be all over the board.

Dont be a sucker[no pun intended].........

MOLE

3/2005 new technology introduced (in UK) @ $499 >
12/2008 Oreck is hyping to be Dyson-like  @ $799 >

Almost right, DIB.  ORECK is offering a New Year's special on the XL Platinum in 2 colors for $599 with free shipping and a year's supply of bags.  I just might trade my ORECK XL Classic for this new ORECK, which BTW Consumer Reports rates in the top 10 in October 2008.  As my Jewish Aunt would say:  Such a deal!

Carmine,

Per the Oreck commercial and before the economy crisis.  Oreck's  t.v. commercial hyped/conned Americans by selling their tired vacuum as a - Dyson-kinda-like steerable.  Selling @ $799.  DIB

CarmineD wrote:

Hi again - thanks for the welcome, CarmineD and DIB!

I'm interested in the disparity between the US Consumer Reports rating, and the EU equivalent, Which? Magazine's ratings of Dyson machines. When the Dyson DC01 and DC02  first came out, Which? were very positive about them, until the brand's poor reliability began to become apparent in consumer surveys. For years after that, while Dyson machines performed consistantly well in testing, Which? refused bestow them with their 'Best Buy' recommendation. However, once Dyson introduced the standard 5-year guarantee, Which? announced they no longer had a problem recommending Dyson.

As you can see from this April 2007 report, out of the 5 'Best Buy' uprights, 4 of them are Dyson models. Only the Sebo Felix ranks alongside them for cleaning ability. To quote their results for the DC14 '...our results showed top-notch scores all round.' An overview of high-scoring models on the previous page states of the DC14 All Floors, 'This Dyson is the carpet king, combining excellent dust pick-up with top-notch filtration.'

I can't understand why Consumer Report rates them so poorly, and Which? rates them so highly. Unfortunately, not being a subscriber to Which? I haven't seen any test results for Dyson upright or canister models later than these ones, so I couldn't comment on their opinion of the DC24, DC25 etc. I have a DC24, which does a respectable job for such a compact, lightweight cleaner.

Coincidentally, in this test, the Oreck XL7, the most expensive machine tested (retailing at £449 - £170 more than the most expensive Dyson) achieved an overall score of just 51%.

Hi Guys:

My opinion on consumer magazine rankings and ratings:  You're only as good as your latest ranking and score.  And even then, it's a subjective guide.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Since the test was conducted, the DC15 and DC18 have been discontinued in favour of the DC24 and DC25. I'll try and find out how they scored, and get back to you.

The DC14 Origin and All Floors have come down in price, and gained an extra 20aw of power. If anything, they're now better sales prospects than when they were tested!

CarmineD wrote:

Oddly, you didn't mention the fact that it's a 'subjective guide' earlier, when you said:

'While comments here say dyson's DC24 [3rd generation in steering/manueverabity considering DC18] is a step in the right direction, Consumer Reports [October 2008] rates lower than the worse ever rated dyson DC15 ball.  Getting a Poor in tool suction and Fair in pet hair pick up.  And CR's initial comments on the DC25, not yet reviewed and rated, are not very promising.'

So is a Consumer Report score 'admissible evidence' or not?

Model2,

I always enjoy hearing from the UK, especially when information is presented accurately.  Does Which Magazine rely on hand outs (free money) to survive as does Consumer Reports?  If my memory is correct, I believe Consumer Reports takes in million[s] of dollars in free hand outs annually.  Neither do they pay any sort of income tax, yet they still come up million[s] short every year.  CR is a bias rag when they can get away with it.  CR does not publish the names of individuals or corporations who “donate” monies.

Does Which Magazine ever talk of the benefits of Dyson’s filtration vice bag filtration?  CR refuses to compare Dyson filtration or its benefits against bag filtration.  This is a disservice to their paying customers and those who believe CR’s statements of being non-bias.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi DIB,

the Which? Magazine slogan is: 'No advertising. No bias. No hidden agenda.'  According to them, 'We do not accept advertising or rely on freebies. Everything bought for testing is paid for at full price.' It is funded entirely by subscribers to its magazine and website.

With regards to the bagged vs. bagless debate, the same issue from which the excerpt I posted above was sourced states:

'Our tests have found no link between the presence and absence of a bag, and cleaning ability.' It does, however, mention that the bags for the 'Best Buy' brands are often expensive.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Then why dont you tell us about the dyson filtration and its benefits over a bagged machine that uses filtrette bags and carbon activated after filters.I know that these machines are priced the same,For every spinned reason you throw out there i can give you reasons and answers [OH and by the way it never looses suction remember that line, why dont you tell us about that LIE and advertising deception again.

This is getting VERY OLD , why dont you promote a vacuum that  gives the public its moneys worth.................

MOLE

Hello Model2:

Thank you for giving me the opprtunity to clarify my above post comment.  The point I made in the above post was that despite the favorable comments here about new dyson ball models, Consumer Reports is not as kind/impressed with a DC24 [MSRP $399] in its October 2008 tests.  Nor does a new DC25 [MSRP $499] look promising to CR.  BTW, both ball models tho new are being heavily discounted by all retailers along with assorted buyer incentives.  Recall when dyson introed the DC15 it was $599.  But within several months of launch dyson at the urging of several retailers, dropped the price by $100 to $499 and still.  I was told by the BEST BUY store with the reputation for selling the most dysons on the east coast that dyson's DC15 ball was its worse selling model.  Recall my friend DIB bought a DC15 for $300 a few years ago.  Since 2004 with a DC15 ball, CR has been very critical and negative about the benefits/advantages of dyson ball technology.  In fact, CR has been critical of all dysons generally for the last 6 years save a DC17 which is the only dyson model in the USA to manage a top 10 rank by CR. 

WRT Consumer Reports since you asked, IMHO is an excellent reference source for new vacuum buyers.  It should be used as a reference guide to acquaint new vacuum buyers with most of the available brands, models, features and prices for comparative shopping purposes.  In the final analysis, it is a guide, and subjective at that, not the gospel.  I always recommend that serious and conscientious vacuum buyers should, whenever in doubt, refer/defer to the industry experts and professionals for the best advice. 

FWIW, the HOOVER Fusion bagless upright [MSRP $109] was consistently rated a DO NOT BUY by CR for faulty emissions.  However, Wal*mart stores, which had the exclusive sales FUSION rights for 2 years, claim it to be one of the best selling vacuums in their sales history.  In fact, stores complained that they couldn't keep the FUSION-s stocked on the shelves because they sold so quickly.  Customers who bought and used FUSION-s were impressed with their performance and capabilites.  The buying vacuum public spoke with their pocketbooks and CR be darned. 

Carmine D.

Hi CarmineD, thanks for the reply!

Out of interest, then, which brands/models do Consumer Report generally favour as being the best on the US market? With Which? Magazine, Miele canisters generally top everything for performance, and have been consistant 'Best Buy' canister models for years.

Model2:

Without providing the specific details, I believe that Consumer Reports weighs in more heavily on the side of the big box retail store vacuum brands that are most affordable to the average consumers' household budgets.  I suspect this will especially be the case now in hard economic times.  BTW, I don't subscribe to CR.  Never have save receiving as gifts over the years.  However I do pick and choose monthly CR editions off the newstands for purchase; i.e the biannual vacuum editions [March and October]. 

Carmine D.

Reading the Which Report clips that Model2 posted Which says the Dyson DC14 Orgin is not as good as the DC14 All floor at retaining allergens!  Not sure where they got that information from!  Only difference between these 2 models in the UK is one has the clutch setup to turn the brush bar off the another is a standard motor driven brush bar direct from the motor using a standard rubber belt!  The cyclone and filter setup is the same! Both don't have HEPA filters, as it mentions there is HEPA models available (Allergy and Animal). 

DC18

DC18 wrote:

I noticed that too - I thought at first it was a printing error, but the full score-grid gives the All Floors four stars out of five, and the Origin three! I guess it could be a testing error, a human error, or possibly they really did get different scores from the different models, although it would seem impossible. One thing testing of this kind - using just one example of each cleaner - doesn't allow for is anomalies. For true accuracy, a random sample of several examples of each model should be tested, but it's just not practical or economical, I suppose.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

mole wrote:
Mole,

I would like to see the Filtrete go against Dyson filtration.  So why hasn't the $24b 3M Corporation bellied up with some data disproving the $1.5b Dyson claims?  And why does 3M insist on using the technobabble language of “low pressure loss” as apposed to “clogging”?  The masses understand “clogging” not “low pressure loss”.  And/or why does not 3M publish results from testing standards to determine if clogging occurs as Dyson freely does?

DIB

It's not 3M's job to advertise for vacuum cleaner companies.   Their customers are the vacuum manufacturers who are provided with evidence of the superiority of 3M products.   The actual implementation of the vacuum bag inside the vacuum matters for both air flow and filtration. 

As for Consumer Reports, they do note that the problem with Dyson is during the dumping of the dirt in the canister.  The dirt is contained in the 3M bag when the bag is removed.  With the Dyson canister, it is recommended that people with allergies wear a mask because the very small dirt particles are likely to float up into the air during the dumping process. 

DysonInventsBig also wrote:  "I always enjoy hearing from the UK, especially when information is presented accurately.  Does Which Magazine rely on hand outs (free money) to survive as does Consumer Reports?  If my memory is correct, I believe Consumer Reports takes in million[s] of dollars in free hand outs annually.  Neither do they pay any sort of income tax, yet they still come up million[s] short every year.  CR is a bias rag when they can get away with it.  CR does not publish the names of individuals or corporations who “donate” monies."

Consumer Reports does list the names of donors in the magazine.  It does not accept any corporate donations, so you are wrong on both counts.    It is utter nonsense to claim bias just because your favorite vacuum didn't do well in Consumer Reports. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Model2 wrote:

I don't know about "Which?", but I believe Consumer Reports does buy 4 or 5 of each model tested to allow for variability among sampled vacuums. 

the biggest weakness in CR is in the test methods selected.  If CR tested on carpet like what Carmine has, for example, they would have rated the Dyson models with clutches, as unacceptable.   On low pile commercial type carpeting, Dyson would likely rate very well, provided there isn't any pet hair to remove. 

CR does send the vacuums home with employees to get in home vacuuming experience, but they don't conduct any tests based on in home experience.    They use standard carpets made for testing of vacuums. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus:

Thanks for posting the corrections about Consumer Reports and clarification about 3M's bags.  Just to update those who may not know, I have Mohawk wool carpets with medium pile and backing.  This is a commonly purchased rug upgrade by homeowners.  I have carpets in the bedrooms only.  These rugs are not a problem for my ORECK, assorted HOOVER-s [not self-propelled], EUREKA and others [some of which are vintage], which navigate and perform on the rugs with no effort.  Since the failed attempts with a dyson DC07 pink, even with workarounds suggested by dyson tech reps and HELPLINE, I learned from posts/links here that Mohawk industries has voided its warranty on any of its carpets if dysons are used.  Unfortunately, as a rug/vacuum consumer you don't find this out until after a dyson purchase.  I suspect if I chose, I could return the over 2 year old DC07 pink which is gathering dust unused in my daughter's home, for reasons of the voided warranty.  But I haven't tried.  My grand daughter loves the color!  Tho she calls it papa's vacuum.

I always thought dyson would have an edge up with Consumer Reports because dyson's primary sales venue is big box retail stores, and CR is biased in favor of those brands and models.  New dyson models always get quick/speedy reviews by CR unlike other brands that have to wait years.  But as we know all dyson models save the DC17 manage only fair to middlin reviews.  Worst of all are dyson ball models.  On this one issue, I agree with DIB: These dyson ratings and rankings because of the high dyson prices, serve to seriously negate dyson sales.  [As do rug manufacturers' voided warranties].  Only saving grace is the CR reliability data which places dyson second for uprights.  But CR qualifies the reliability data and readers reliance on it because of the relative newness of the dyson brand in the USA.  Be interesting to see how they fare in the future.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

3M and its stockholders make money by selling as much Filtrete product as possible.  3M controls their own packaging and public statements...  so where is this so-called “evidence of the superiority” (over Dyson filtration)? 

DIB

P.S.  I would not mind your insults if you had a grasp on your topic/s.

"3M and its stockholders make money by selling as much Filtrete product as possible."  DIB

Actually, DIB, more correctly "post-it" products.  Those little yellow and/or multi-color paper stick ons that you see all over every where in academia, businesses, offices, homes you name it.  I usually have a stack within arms reach of telephones, computer, TV's, book shelves, desk draws.  I don't know how I lived without them, and I recall when they were invented.  Talk about pure and simple genius.  And profiting from and by it.  Acquaint yourself with the post it story and its inventor.  It's the invention success story that is routinely taught and discussed by all teachers worth their salt.  Being praiseworthy of all forms of innovation, invention and technology, no doubt you feel exactly the same way as me.  Profit was never the motive for post-its.  Necessity was.  How does the saying go:  Necessity is the mother of invention.  But I'm sure being the banner waver for technology, you already know the facts front to back.

Filtrete paper bags and filters are just a small semi-related aside to the MMM core business.  Albeit a very profitable aside as you said.  I believe successful companies and businesses call it "growing your business."  That's what good CEO's and business leaders do rather than sitting back and resting on their past laurels.  Just another stroke of MMM genius to make life better and easier for people through applications of its products to the real world needs and demands of people.  Something you can quickly and easily identify with yourself. 

BTW, did you hear:  The Chinese, you know that 3rd world country with the lowest and poorest paid people working in squalor conditions that recently hosted the summer Olympics, might beat the USA and other world countries to market with an electric car that is chargeable from household electrical sockets [2010].  Go figure.  Even Warren Buffett has taken notice.  You know him.  That eccentric multi-billionaire who's best buds with Bill Gates and gives tens of billions of dollars to charity every year.  Maybe Wal*Mart stores will get the exclusive sell rights to the new Chinese electric car and compete with the big time USA and global car makers.  I'd love to see it!

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Do you have any information or seen any science comparing Filtrete filtration against Dyson filtration?  Certainly, canisters using Filtrete filtration choke faster than do uprights using Filtrete filtration.  If Dyson filtration is better than the Filtrete (which I know it is), then Dyson cans are even that much better than cans using Filtrete filtration. - Do you know of any science that can prove otherwise?

God gave the inventor the Post-It concept while he fumbled thru his hymnal or Bible looking for hymns or scriptures (I forgot which it was).  He used a glue that was invented by 3M and that was previously rejected and thought worthless.  After marring the “note” to the glue it was rejected by the 3M suits until the secretary of the CEO fell in love with em (the Post-it) and got her boss “hooked on em”.  Am I close?

Earlier you were claiming inventors had a lesser role in society or were lesser at making money than suits.  I say the inventor was bless and the *3M suit (CEO) was lucky/fairly lucky.  This suit could be easily replaced, not this inventor or his idea.

Since Walmart withdraws $200b from Americans and pumps it into China, I see no reason why they should not succeed with an electric car.  Inventing is God given and has no borders, even the Nazi's had some inventors that built or conceived incredible, unbelievable and ahead-of-it-time inventions.  Does this make Nazi Germany good too?

Unless you have information otherwise, China remains communist and all the filth that goes along with that.  Perhaps you should move there and raise your pro-Walmart, pro-Bill Gates, pro-Warren Buffett flag as high as you can.


DIB

*Typically this is the case, although I have not studied this fella.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Yes, the science of smell.  As in the nose knows!  Read the posts below.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

So as to corroborate Bobby's conclusion above, Trilobite added:

Trilobite wrote:

Do you have proof to dispute the above?  Bagless, even yours, is terrible for pet owners like me and the 74 million USA households with 4 legged furry friends.  And millions more Americans who suffer from allergies and sinuses.  Like my dear Wife.

As a rule, you know your topic.  Where you fall short IMHO is applying the same logic to the facts and circumstances to arrive at consistent and correct conclusions.  Your conclusions are skewed/flawed because of your unfounded biases.  

A correction to your misquote above:  I don't impugn invention.  Obviously my MMM case!  Inventors and business people are equally important in the roles they share to make life better through the use of technology.  You tend to glorify a particular inventor/designer who is an excellent marketer in my opinion and very lucky [tho eventually luck runs out].  I say that engineers/inventors as a rule make "so-so" business leaders at best.  Their biggest business weakness is not knowing when to cut their losses and move on.   Steve Jobs is an obvious exception.  But Jobs had to first learn a very valuable lesson in humility by almost losing the company he help found.  He profited by the experience which made him a good business leader.  Pray for his health and well being.  And hopefully APPLE will handle his health issues/concerns with stockholders and stakeholders with honesty.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

That is the clue: a constantly rotating brush, especially on hard floors, can flick particles and allergens out of the airstream.

Who has used an upright with a constantly turning brush, and noticed grit, sand, or peanuts flicked out by the agitator?

UK Catalogue High Street chain Argos has the DC27 models on their website with some technical information on this new model:

1300 watt motor

255 air watts measured through the hose

Hose length 3.73m (catalogue says 16ft hose)

2.3 Litre dust bin

Available from February 2009

Interesting to see the motor wattage is lower than the out going DC14 and the air watts to! 

DC18

Trilobite wrote:

Trilobite - are you vacuuming an elephant house!? And if it doesn't 'Beat as it Sweeps as it Cleans', it's not an agitator, it's a brush-roll!

Model2 wrote:

And if it's a dyson, it's a brush bar!

Carmine D.

As promised, I've tracked down Which? Magazine's findings for the two current Dyson Ball models. Compare them with Consumer Report's findings, and draw your own conclusions:

DC25 Animal

Test criteria	Rating
Cleaning
Carpet
Laminate floors
Floorboards
Walls and corners
Performance
Allergen retention
Pet hair
Noise
Ease of use
General use
Emptying
Cleaning stairs
Manoeuvrability

DC24 All Floors

Test criteria	Rating
Cleaning
Carpet
Laminate floors
Floorboards
Walls and corners
Performance
Allergen retention
Pet hair
Noise
Ease of use
General use
Emptying
Cleaning stairs
Manoeuvrability

So, quite a marked difference to CR's results. Both models, coincidentally, achieve Which?'s 'Best Buy' certificate of recommendation.

Model2  I took the liberty to post side by side.  The test categories/criteria are not the same.  I matched the CR to Which?.  But it's "subjective." CR has not rated the DC25 yet.  Probably, in the March 2009 edition.  The ratings of a DC24 by CR and Which? are not markedly different.  CR's DC24 ratings are not necessarily bad.  Just a plethera of other US brand vacuums that perform as good and better.  WRT noise, Which? may be a more conservative grader than CR?

DC24 All Floors       Which?                        Consumer Reports

Test criteria	Rating
Carpet	Carpet       Good
Laminate floors	Barefloor  Excellent
Floorboards
Walls and corners
Allergen retention	Emissions     Excellent
Pet hair	Pat Hair          Fair
Noise	Noise              Very Good
General use	Handling         Very Good
Emptying
Cleaning stairs	Tool Airflow    Poor
Manoeuvrability

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Which? describe their sound-test thus: 'Noise levels are tested by placing vacuum cleaners in specially-configured sound chambers, surrounding them with carefully placed microphones to measure decibels reached.'

My guess would be that perhaps the average European cleaner is quieter than the average American cleaner. So a Dyson might seem quiet when compared to others in the US, but louder than others in the UK. In my own experience, I wouldn't say I find any Dyson - with the possible exception of the DC03 - quiet, but nor do I find them loud, and certainly not uncomfortably so.

Hi gang,

"Walls and corners" refers to edge cleaning doesn't it?  Which, by the way, is a term I haven't heard in a month of Sundays.  Has its importance in sales pitches dimished?

Venson

I notice 5 stars on Allergen retention. My question being...How was this determined? Was a particle meter used? With 5 or more seals that leak before the dust even gets to the HEPA filter how is a 5 star rating possibly achieved? On machines that have true sealed HEPA filtration systems, do they get lumped into a lesser efficient group of 5 star machines, thus negating their superior technology? Seems misleading and a dis-service to the consumer if that is true.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Interestingly, the HSN Julie HOOVER demo today keyed in on the walls and corners aka edge cleaning.  She used both sides of the nozzle head to show equidistant suction power all around.  One of the tenets of WT technology.

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:
Wow!!  Sir James and his engineers invent a radical and new way to vacuum over the 120 (or so) year old standard, only to get a rubbish and/or unfair review.  I wonder what vacuum Which claims out-maneuvers the DC24 or the DC25? If lying prone is a criteria, then there should be a separate measurement for this. Readers, paying readers would benefit if Which could be more honest and clear. Not everybody can use a vacuum that lays prone (vacuums lay prone and not flat). Not to mention, that Dyson uprights all have a hose and wand (for a floor tool).

  If the Which Magazine’s editors and so-called technicians, judged the world’s first jet engine airplane they would rate it poorly because jet planes require a higher rate of speed to stay aloft - it would fail their maneuverability test.  These editors [at times] are idiots!

 Below is an example demonstrating how stupid and/or bias consumer magazines (Consumer Reports) can be.  Unfortunately those who work hard to engineer innovations for a tired appliance are not given the proper respect by way of a fair and comprehensive review and/or comparisons.

CR on stairs:  http://www.viddler.com/explore/InventBig/videos/40/?secreturl=64584337


DIB

DIB - both machines were awarded  prestigious 'Best Buys', and of all the 'Best Buy' uprights currently on sale,  the DC25 achieved the highest overall test score (70%). That's not rubbish by any stretch of the imagination. The Ball's innovative, but not perfect - yet. Think how many times Sir James had to redesign his dual cyclone system before he found the one which worked best...and think how many more times it's been reworked since then.

Addressing your point about Which? being honest, out of their 8 current 'Best Buy'  uprights, 7 of them are Dysons. I don't think you can accuse them in any way of an anti-Dyson bias!

Model2 wrote:

It's DIB's phobia, an anti-dyson complex.   Compliments are taken as criticism.  You'd think after no 2008 dyson bonus he would have snapped out of it by now.  But it may take another year with still no dyson bonus to sink in. 

Carmine D.

Isn't it obvious?  The Which “technicians” studied under the Consumer Reports lead technician.  When this CR tech carries an upright up stairs to vacuum vice using the hose and wand...  this is exactly the type of gag you’d see in the old Jerry Lewis, Dean Martin movies.  Funny stuff.  Too bad these little men in big chairs cheat those who spend much time and money developing for a tired appliance.  When so-called consumer magazines bungle simple tests, the consumer and the innovative manufacturers lose.

Dyson needs much more video presenting the many advantages of his appliances. 


DIB

CR on stairs (video):  http://www.viddler.com/explore/InventBig/videos/40/?secreturl=64584337

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Joke's on you DIB.  Many users like me prefer the revolving brush roll action of the upright for cleaning and grooming stairways.  Rather than straight suction with wand.  You'll note many full size and light weight uprights include a "stair handle' for the purpose.  THose that don't include the turbo tool on board for the same reason.

PS:  Jerry and Dean are 2 of my al time favorites. 

Carmine D.

When CR dismisses the benefits of a hose and wand and alike, how do they arrive at such decisions?  Do they flip a coin or...?  However CR arrives at such decisions, it is the paying subscribers who are duped and the innovative manufacturers who are hurt.  A chimp could do much of the so-called [vacuum cleaner] science and evaluations done at CR.

DIB

P.S.  Jerry Lewis has my respect.  The man made history with his humor and does much good and for many.  He should of died long ago, God has kept it from happening.  He needs him.

CR on stairs (video):  http://www.viddler.com/explore/InventBig/videos/40/?secreturl=64584337

DysonInventsBig wrote:
DIB, you're right --- it is a dumb and ineffective to clean stairs especially with a high suction upright that has attachments aplenty that can do the job better in another manner.  So dumb that it's too stupid to try to make a point with.   I can only imagine that  it was pure acciident that a photo shoot with such a numbskull got into the magazine or online. Then again this situation may have been a  chance for weight training by this nudnick.

Venson

According to the Argos.co.uk site, this cleaner is the Dyson "N27"!

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4063201/Trail/searchtext%3EDYSON.htm

Homebase also lists it as "N27":

http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=4063201&c_3=3%7Ccat_12439150%7CUpright+bagless+vacuum+cleaners%7C12439155&c_2=2%7Ccat_12079515%7CVacuum+and+carpet+cleaners%7C12439150&c_1=1%7Ccategory_root%7CHome+Electrical%7C12079515

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

I have to disagree vehemently.  If we vacuum the carpets on our floors with an upright [and revolving brush], especially the heavy traffic areas, why not the steps then?  Due to the difficulty to do so with most uprights?  The risers and crevices are fine for straight suction of wand and hose.  But never the steps.  Must be vacuumed and groomed in a way that only a revolving brush does.  Else they mat down.  The best option is a hand held with a revolving brush, especially if it's my grand daughter doing the vacuuming.  Much easier than a DC 07 pink.  Of course with age, steps are no longer an option.  Wastes too much energy.  Not vacuuming, but climbing!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I have to agree with Carmine. In fact, Hoover used to recommend using their uprights in such a fashion on stair carpets, as this was a far more efficient method of removing the damaging grit than using the tool set. This probably is still true today; the floor agitator is generally more aggressive than the mini-turbo upholstery nozzles.

I have seen me use my Dyson DC15 in such a fashion, as fighting the hose and wand is such a pain in the arse, and the hose never stretches the full length of the stairs. Instead of cleaning the top half of the stairs with the hose and then carrying the cleaner down, in order to work up from the bottom, I find it much easier to grab the cleaner in carpet-cleaning mode and work down the steps in one pass. Saves all this faffing about.

N27 - that's very interesting; I last checked the Argos page a few days ago, and it was still the DC27. I wonder if they've decided to change the model designation?

N for nudnick! 

At 293 pounds and an exchange rate now of $1.49 to the pound, that's $450 US smackers.  Have to be a rich nudnick to buy it!  Any of those around these days.  COSTCO stores can't sell DC14 Animals [MSRP $549] for $350 with the current economic conditions, how can a N27 sell for $450 plus?  Never happen now.  A few years ago, yes.  Now, this product at that price is dead in the water. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

Though both the vacuums used in the demo are now out of manufdacture (they're no longer being shown as product on either company's websites), the Panasonic upright he used comes with a hose and an upholstery tool that, even though it may have no agitator, can do quite well on carpeted stairs because airflow is concentrated. The upholstery tool or a swish of the just the plain old hose end makes quick work of stuff stuck in corners on stairways.

Stair treads are small and upright cleaning heads or cans' power nozzles are big and unweldly and for all the effort not nececessarily as useful in this manner.  This also applies to the Kenmore can which I believe may even also have come with an electric mini-mate.  Also another way to very easy and effective way to clean stair carpet quickly and without a lot of huffing and puffing.

Further, this has always been a practice of mine and I've found, if done on a regular basis of course, even high pile on stairs not only gets clean it looks "alive" longer.

If shape allows, you stand a can on end and bring it with you as you go up or down stairs as you work.  If an upright has a stretch hose you clean as far up as you can and bring the cleaner up the rest of the way to get at the reamaining steps.  No stretch hose?  Well, you use one hand to fimly grip the cleaner handle and the other to work with as you bring it along with you.

Last but surely not least, the matter of safety is also to be considered.  The manner of use demonstrated is not necessarily good for most folks and is certainly not advisable to be taught to kids (age appropriate) if you involve them in helping taking care of the house -- which everybody should.  When on stairs with a vacuum of any type and even of the best design, great care should always be taken to keep the machine and user safe from falling,.

UN-vehemently,

Venson

Please note that some of the TTI Vax 'Mach' models have a "Stair Cleaning Handle" situated above the headlight:

http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/multipleImage.do?sku=443140&zoom=yes

Hello Venson:

Points well made and taken, un-vehemently.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:
Venson,

Thank you.  Safety is paramount.  My mom just fell the other day (she is ok) but if she got hurt, it’s real bad all the way around.  A separate hand vac or a turbo brush (no wand) connected to a second hose and then to whatever.  A user having one hand on or near the stair treads is the safest (for steep incline).  Even the canister power nozzle on treads looked somewhat dangerous.  Falling needlessly is not worth it.

DIB

P.S.  By the way, CR’s head guy's (pictured) title is...  “Head of Appliance Testing”.
<  Consumer Reports "Head of Appliance Testing" vacuuming stairs.
< All others vacuuming stairs.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

He probably invented the handle grip attachment for the Kirby to convert it from an upright to a hand held for step/stairway cleaning.  Actually making it quicker and easier to use the Kirby in an upright mode for stair and step vacuuming than tank canister [by converting to hose/wands and zippbrush].  Ah necessity.........the mother of all inventions! 

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:
Model2,

I was unaware of how many Dyson’s ranked high at Which, surely this pleases Sir James.  But, Dyson is being knocked off at a rapid rate and being under priced too.  His biggest invention of late are the steering vacuums, and it hurts sales when Which or whomever dismisses these advances.  How did Which they come to this (3 out of 5 stars) conclusion?  Surely they did not use math (when comparing to competitors vac’s that weigh at or near the same).  Math would prove the vacuums much easier to maneuver and math would show Dyson Ball vacuums require less effort to maneuver.

DIB

Cleaning the stairs w/the rotating brush of the upright or the power nozzle of a canister will bring the best results. Using an upholstery attachment or mini turbo brush will clean, but will not be as effective as the previously mentioned.  The upright has a wider path, so cleaning the stairs can be completed faster than the upholstery attachment.  It is also more aggressive than a mini turbo brush or suction alone.  Even if the suction is strong,  thorough cleaning of thicker carpeting requires more than suction.

I am quite experienced cleaning staircases using the upright or a canister w/power nozzle. .  I think the first time I vacuumed stairs w/an upright, was w/a soft bagged GE or Eureka.  It was so long ago, I cannot remember.  I have not fallen once when using a vacuum cleaner.  I have slipped while walking down stairs w/o anything in my hands though.  Luckily, I fell backwards onto the stairs instead of forwards.  So, using a vacuum cleaner on stairs does not mean that you will fall. Singling out the vacuum cleaner is not fair.  Everyday, people walk up and down stairs with laundry baskets, trashcans/bags, groceries, etc.  So I guess they should stop doing that also, because they can fall.

While recommending the stair-vacuuming procedure for best results,  I always recommend taking great care when vacuuming.  Vacuum-makers also recommend taking care.  Vacuuming the stairs using the upright or canister w/power nozzle may not be the best way for elderly people, but then I think they should not be vacuuming the stairs if they have a hard time moving around.  

I am not the only person that vacuums the stairs this way, and vacuum cleaner manufacturers know this.  That is why brands like Eureka, HOOVER, Kenmore, Aerus, Sanitaire, Royal, etc. have/had models w/stair-cleaning handles.  

While there are brands that have stair-cleaning handles, there are some vacuum cleaners that can be used, that do not have the special handle.

So, the guy vacuuming the stairs w/the Panasonic upright is not out of place.  I could not see anyone vacuuming that way w/the HOOVER Z.


 
P.S. Let's reframe from the name-calling.  Even if it is directed towards someone/something outside the forum.

Mike_W wrote:
Which is why I have always preferred using the electric mini nozzles that come with Kenmore and Electrolux.  I have done my snare of stair cleaning too and the electric mini nozzles served quite well for me even on stair carpeting that had priorly gotten lick and a promise going over.  The turboi nozzles depend too much on airflow to keep the brush running up ot speed and cleanning suction is sacrificed for that reason.

Evewn if straight suction, maller tools also allow for easier access to routing lint and dust in corners and between balusters in one fell swoop.  May not work for you but it certainly works for me -- and the job gets done in no time.

Best,

Venson

PS -- forgot to mention it is usual to give the risers a hit too.  That is not easily achieved with with a full-sized upright.

......

My greater point has always been - CR is withholding information.  Not only over the small stuff (acceptable), but withholding over the big stuff (unacceptable)...

CR is notorious for omitting major advances to the vacuum cleaner.  It must infuriate manufacturers when they spend many millions on these advances only to have CR willfully and unfairly omit these advancements (i.e. inventions).  Is it hard to detach a hose and wand and demonstrate or mention?  The upright is an American favorite, yet CR chooses not to mention these advances, let along do a video demonstration.  Although they do go out of their way to video the upright cleaning stairs in an unsafe manner (some folks can do safely, some cannot).  The paying and trusting reader looses, and the innovative manufacturer[s] looses.

CR should mention the top [mechanical] methods and then recommend.

DIB

As Carmine mentioned, the Kirby portable handle does allow the Kirby to be used to deep clean stair treads very effectively. However, it does not get deep in the corners and the join of the riser and the tread.

Have to use the crevice tool, on the hose OR, you can take a cordless dustbuster with crevice tool and just keep moving it to the step underneath the one you are cleaning w/ the Kirby hand portable. It works well, and done in one go

In the mail, I received the Sam's Club Spring Cleaning magazine called "Source."   Advertised for sale as an exclusive for select Sam' s Clubs is dyson's DC27 for $479.62.  I quote:  " Features patented Root Cyclone technology that doesn't lose suction as you vacuum."    With an asterisked footnote:  Dyson proves no loss of suction using IEC C1 29 test standard. 

Carmine D.