Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

Hello DIB:

I suspect your third party hearsay data is dated.  The latest annual income of Wal*Mart shoppers [over $60,000] is based on survey data collected by the retail industry over the last months of 2008.  It's one of the only positive notes for the retail industry in 2008.  Which will go down as one of the worst in over 30 years.   

If you think about it, it's intuitively logical and sensible.  If Wal*Mart were selling to poor and lower middle income shoppers exclusively, it would not be the only retailer to have sales increases in November and December 2008 of more than 3 percent.  While all its big box retail competitors [save COSTCO whose shoppers' annual income is about $70,000] reported decreases/losses in sales year over year.   Poor to lower middle income consumers are hardest hit by bad economic times and rising gas prices.  And their proportionate share of spending is forced to decrease compared to middle and higher income wage earners.  The increases in W*M sales vice all other retailers indicate that higher wage earners are increasingly shopping and buying at W*M stores.  It's called "trading down" by consumers in their shopping preferences for retail stores.  No doubt the reason APPLE iphones are now for sale at all W*M stores and have been just since December 28, 2008.  APPLE projects that the sales of the iPhones at W*M stores alone in 2009 will increase its revenues by 48 percent.  Who buys these devices?  Poor and low income people?

As I said DIB, you're smart.  But, my friend spinning dyson's move to Malaysia as a gain for the UK and condemning Wal*Mart's as a loss for the US is a logical contradiction.  W*M has clearly eliminated manufacturing jobs in the USA by outsourcing to Chinese suppliers.  As dyson eliminated manufacturing jobs in the UK by moving to Malaysia.   I would argue, convincingly, that if not for Wal*Mart, many of its 1.5 million US retail employees would be unemployed now and probably for the distant future.  Similarly city, state and Federal tax coffers would be emptied/drained for the lack of W*M's real estate, payroll, sales and income tax payments.  

Where one stands, depends on where one sits!  The US has gone from a manufacturing driven economy to a retail base economy.  Thanks in large part to W*M.  Is that a net social and economic good or evil?  And where does dsyon figure into W*M for the future?

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Why are you spending time defending this $375b “benevolent” giant.  Instead why not post links here to the many hard hitting interviews (video or otherwise) asked of the Walmart suits.  Many Americans are angry with Walmart, I along with them would like to hear explanations to the many social complaints that have been leveled at them and their company.  Surely these benevolent suits are proud of their conduct and most assuredly they have nothing to hide.


DIB

Hello DIB:

I  have friends and family members who work for W*M and love their jobs.  Just as you probably know persons who work for dyson and love their jobs.  Why attack one company [W*M] for outsourcing and praise the other [dyson] for the same?  If outsourcing is a social/economic evil when W*M does it, then it is the same when dyson/any other company does it.  Failure for you to understand/agree with this after several attempts at trying is obtuse.

I'd much rather discuss the latest news on the W*M and dyson business relationship but despite several opportunities you have not said.  You obviously know something about it and it is affecting your opinions of W*M now here.   Would you like to add something about the latest W*M and dyson turn of business events?  Or continue to spew your opinions about how bad W*M outsourcing is for the US and how great it is for dyson and the UK?  BTW, how many manufacturing jobs are lost in the USA by W*M selling iPhones in W*M stores?  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Your “Dyson is Walmart-like” was a new challenge for me.  Thanks.

From 1993 to [early] 2002 James Dyson was spending his own money investing in [his] British factories, hiring and employing Britons, and choosing this over the far cheaper and more profitable route of using China or otherwise...  during this same time-frame, just how many American factories did Walmart open/help their suppliers open?  How many American factories did they shut down (directly or indirectly)?

I’ve been doing some research on this monster sized whore called Walmart, or more accurately... the whores who run it along with their lieutenants.

Are your Walmart friends going to join in on the $640m (and growing?) Walmart abuse (abuse their employees) settlement?  Or were they part of upper management that took part of screwing their employees?  Are your friends on any sort of Welfare or alike?  After all the Walton’s are only worth the infinitesimal amount of $100b, so it is an absolute must that the Walmart associates get paid just a little bit above dirt.  After all they are payed in dirt or not paid at all...  or so the many class actions suits across our country says so.  Maybe if they cannot jump in on this class action, perhaps some of the other class actions against Walmart could pay (probably to late, but I wanted to establish this is not the first time the whores in suits screwed their employees and got caught).


DIB

P.S.   Did you read where Adidas has sued Walmart 3 different times in 13 years over Walmart’s abuse (oops) I should say - the better con is calling it...  “efficiency and bringing value to our customers”. The Walmart suits again got caught stealing Adidas’ trademarked property (aka livelihood)?  Walmart shows no favorites...  they’ll screw anyone.

Dyson gets a nice mention in the Wall Street Journal.

online.wsj.com/article/SB123144483005365353.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

CarmineD wrote:

Hello DIB:

Sounds like you missed my post above to Venson.    

For every supposed negative item you attribute to Wal*Mart, I'll find at least one positive [instituting product standards on Chinese toy suppliers before the 2008 Holiday sales season].  Dare I mention the social/economic good that W*M does by its expansions internationally into Japan, Chile, Mexico, Brazil, India etc?  Or..... does it only count as a net good when dyson does it?

My point to you is simple.  It's logically inconsistent to condemn W*M for outsourcing and cast praise on dyson for it.  Malaysia [dyson] is southeast Asia.  China [W*M] is Asia.  HELLO!  If one doesn't understand/agree after several attempts, the word challenge comes to mind but more correctly obtuse.

Carmine D. 

What struck me when I read the WSJ article is that it leads off with Bernie Madoff.  Bernard swindled over $51 billion from trusting investors AND FRIENDS using a Ponzi scheme.  The crux of a Ponzi scheme, as you probably know now, is to convince people to fork over their money who otherwise would not for lack of knowledge/understanding the investment fundamentals.  Why?  Exuberance and greed.  Everyone else is!  If you don't fork it up, you will missout on this great opportunity.  Well 8 plus years later and 8 bungled investigations,  Bernie "made off" with $51 B in others' money.  Why do I mention this Ponzi scheme?  In the past you may recall, I used this same analogy to explain the HSN hyped sales numbers.  It's a basic tenet of the art of deception and flim flam sales.  Like schills in an auction crowd.  Some may call it marketing.  I doubt the good college marketing professor would agree.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

My greater point has always been...  Dyson was forced to do it (move offshore).  Walmart forces MANY to do it (move offshore).


DIB

P.S.  Where or when did I praise Dyson for moving offshore?

The slightly crazy thing about Dyson deciding to move production to Malaysia, is if they'd simply built from there at the very beginning, it would have been a complete and utter non-issue.

One of the benefits of UK-based production, was that the machines were designed and built under the same roof. It must have quite satisfying. These days, it will be replaced with the anticipation of opening a container of pre-production samples.

Not that Dyson should escape criticism; they tended to act a bit superior and were happy promote their domestic production when it suited them. However, the rational was:-

1. Limited planning support in the local area for expansion.
2. Minimal reliance on local employment - other businesses in the area where often frustrated with Dyson's presence as they couldn't recruit for local unskilled labour, because Dyson was such a lucrative employer!
3. While they could make a reasonable profit selling to the UK market, the exchange rate meant that each exported unit was making them a loss.
4. A lot of the components (i.e. motors / plugs / hoses) they required weren't available locally. If you're supplying to the far east, it's a bit crazy to source parts from there, bring them to the UK, put them together and send them back again!
5. For the reason above, particularly expansion being limited, being able to supply the US market would have been a complete non-starter.
6. New IT technologies allow effective communication between different parts of the world, that makes production not being under the same roof, a lot less of an issue than it might have been in the past.

Thanks Moose, good stuff written.

Here is a lengthy video interview of James Dyson.  He voices his concerns for Britain's lack of innovation and mentions many who have already moved their entire engineering and manufacturing operations offshore.

http://cmypitch.com   click > entrepreneurTV.  Registration required.


Carmine,

MSNBC (host) recently said Walmart shareholders “Wanted the head of CEO Lee Scott” until he expanded (i.e. made shareholders money) into international markets.  Unlike Lee Scott, James Dyson’s job does not depend on or answer to a mob (i.e. shareholders).

Moose mentions Dyson paying well, certainly Walmart’s Chinese manufacturers during same timeframe paid only $1- $3 per day. - Fitting for a place where life is cheap. - Fitting for a Walmart shareholder and fitting for the Walmart suits whose livelihood and *future success depend on mob/shareholder approval.

DIB

*If to join another company.