Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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DysonInventsBig wrote:
Yeah DIB, but it's us not them.  We run to Wal-Mart.  I've heard of no one who's set out on a shopping trip with a gun to his or her head.  As long as consumers continue to shop without a some sense of awareness as to where their money goes and what it may or may not be supporting, the problem will prevail.

Business of all sizes and shapes may do whatever they like to gain advantage regarding profit but the public makes the final decision on the matter by merely a "yes" or "no"

Best,

Venson.

Frontline investigation - “Is Walmart Good For America?”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7726108983919884624

Hi Venson:

You make an excellent point.  As consumers, Americans vote with their pocketbook.  Case in point for Wal*Mart.  You may have noted that Wal*Mart recently settled some long standing cases involving knucklehead managers and supervisors who denied employees their wages [a sin that cries out to God].  Wal*Mart management IMHO was slow to settle with some cases taking over 8 years.  No excuse for the delay.  I understand investigating the claims first and supporting supervisors and managers, but this was much too much time. 

So what was the impetus for the recent Wal*Mart settlements after so long?  Several reasons.  One in particular which spoke volumes.  According to Wal*Mart sanctioned surveys and studies the lingering cases were costing the company in the bottom line: 2-8 lower sales and profits.   The company decided it was time to do the right thing!  And to its credit, it did.  FINALLY!!!

In the state of Nevada there were over 50 stores and about 1600 employees affected by these cases.  Extrapolate that across the nation for Wal*Mart stores.  Disgruntled employees, and their friends and family not shopping at the stores.  Hurts the bottom line.  More and more over time. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Tho dated, 2006, the PBS FRONTLINE is very good and a provocative presentation.  I presume you dislike Wal*Mart for its push to Chinese [you like to impugn China/Asia] suppliers.  I never noted any contempt for dyson's move to Malaysia [southeast Asia] using an existing "dual purpose" plant  to produce/export dysons globally.  Vice dyson expanding production at the existing Malmesbury UK plant and/or building a new plant [like he wanted to do for the engineering HS] for the effort.   Dyson justified the move/foreign production by saying the labor costs in Malaysia were 30 percent lower than the UK.  I suspect even more.  Then, dyson raised vacuum prices to the consumers rather than lower [as Wal*Mart does and says is the reason for using lower cost Chinese suppliers].  

Surely too you were outraged by dyson's contracts with Wal*Mart to sell 2 exclusive dyson upright models:  DC07 All Carpets in 2003 for $359, and DC07 Original in 2006 for $378?  Wal*Mart and dyson are due for another vacuum contract negotiation, no?  Are you livid and lobbying hard against it? 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Much is wrong with Walmart.  It is too bad Americans who shop there are not willing or capable of forecasting their future.  But if they had, they would not be in *need/dire need of cheap pricing at any cost.  Americans will certainly be taught this lesson, only after it comes at their expense (aka The High Cost of Low Prices).  My Father has plenty and it is His will that I have plenty and then sharing (investing in others, this country, etc.), this is the road I travel.

As a realist, plenty of product will come from nations much poorer than ours.  The men and women who are Walmart use the con of benevolence to mask it’s their power thirsty, greedy and destructive nature.  It’s called - “mans fallen nature”. 

DIB

*pre-economy collapse

More videos/insight to those men who run Walmart...
http://www.blinkx.com/video/mother-of-dead-soldier-sued-by-wal-mart-for-insurance-money/vtQfcy5P-5QBMEfRArFucQ

http://www.blinkx.com/video/tough-questions-for-wal-mart-propagandist/xIicMAFX0_eslwny

http://www.blinkx.com/video/retail-association-wins-lawsuit-against-state-over-wal-mart-bill/z23PHJpHLhphxS2eSV70SA

http://www.blinkx.com/video/walmart-to-shell-out-up-to-640-million-to-settle-lawsuits/6ZB5kVA4GSNUi_wBt5sbfA

http://www.blinkx.com/video/wal-mart-drops-suit-again-mentally-disabled-person-2-2/RB9DELomGOUZ-K0B2Pk6jg

A commentary and claimed “Dead Dead Peasant' Policy” (F word used much)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik30ijaBgUA

Hello DIB:

You're very smart.  You continue to take Wal*Mart to task by outsourcing to Chinese/Asian suppliers w/o caring that  dyson did the same by moving production from the UK to South east Asia [Malaysia].  With a major difference being that Wal*Mart's business motives are to pass the lower prices onto its shoppers.  

 Dyson on the other hand raised its vacuum prices after the move to Malaysia, despite lower labor costs and manufacturing costs.  In fact, Wal*Mart and dyson ended their business relationship in 2005 after W*M stores advertised lower DC07 dyson prices: $319 vice $359.  A $40 savings which benefitted dyson vacuum buyers. 

W*M shops the best suppliers in order to get the best prices for its shoppers.   Dyson shopped for the best suppliers [Malaysia] to get the best prices/profits for dyson by charging higher prices to dyson customers.  If one condemns the effects of W*M's actions on the greater social and economic good, then what should be said about dyson?

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Unfortunately, you omit Dyson’s pro-Britain/pro-British worker, $100m investment in his factory.  Nor do you tell the story of Parliaments failure to keep British manufacturing British.  Some in Parliament blamed their own government for failing their people and not Dyson, fact.  When Tony Blair responded, he too did not blame Dyson.

Dyson has replaced these 450 factory workers with new hires and spends $100 researching future products.  You support Red-Hoover all the while they eliminate American jobs with no new hires (thus far, it is not reported or can be found).  Nor have I read anywhere where they invest in our country or it’s people.

I applaud Dyson for not falling into the trap of building product with the poor to lower-middle class as its base customer (*Walmarts base customer).  Often times these folks feel entitled to a higher standard of living all the while they have not put in the work, investment, and/or sincerely gotten on their knees and asked for the answer.  Since some in my family and some friends have a background it poverty and/or suffering and/or going against the odds only to ultimately win, I can comment and have a view.

DIB

*pre-economy melt down.

DIB:

Like I said, you're very smart.  You spin over dyson's move to Malaysia but condemn Wal*mart for its Chinese suppliers.   Wal*Mart employs over 1.5 million Americans.  By comparison, a considerably greater investment  by Wal*Mart in America//Americans than dyson in the UK.  Surely by your standard, W*M then is just as worthy of the same praise as given you for dyson if  the reasons are investments in people/country.  W*M is the largest company in the world.  It contributes huge tax revenues every year to US local, state and Federal governments' coffers. These tax collections go to the most needy in the US in the form of financial assistance and free services.  During Hurricane Katrina in August 2005, Wal*Mart's trucks were the first to arrive on the natural disaster scenes with food, water, medicine and supplies for the victims.  Long before FEMA. 

The average Wal*Mart shopper earns over $60,000 yearly, up from $40,000.  Wal*Mart now claims a customer base with yearly incomes from low to high.    You are not only "elitist" to impugn the Wal*Mart shoppers as poor with low/middle class incomes, but you are also wrong!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

I got my poor to lower-middle class info from someone who's friend sits/sat on the Walmart board.  Unlike you, I do not make this stuff up. :) Walmart suits proudly proclaim in videotaped stockholder meetings what a wonderful service they provide and examples of how folks can have 2 extra weeks of food in their cupboards.  They fail to mention how many they destroy to get this 2 weeks of food.  Surely if legal, Walmart would gladly doze my home so it could then be sold as scrap to help lower their costs and the timber can be used to warm their needy.  Sorry Carmine, profit taking, selfish group of men and women are not going to redefine what is good.  Nor are they nearly as righteous as you would allow yourself to believe.

Dyson bellied up with $100m to open a factory and to keep Britons working, bottom line is, he tried.  I bet there is not a single document anywhere outlining Walmart trying to save manufacturing in America and it’s countless number of jobs (directly/indirectly).


DIB

Hello DIB:

I suspect your third party hearsay data is dated.  The latest annual income of Wal*Mart shoppers [over $60,000] is based on survey data collected by the retail industry over the last months of 2008.  It's one of the only positive notes for the retail industry in 2008.  Which will go down as one of the worst in over 30 years.   

If you think about it, it's intuitively logical and sensible.  If Wal*Mart were selling to poor and lower middle income shoppers exclusively, it would not be the only retailer to have sales increases in November and December 2008 of more than 3 percent.  While all its big box retail competitors [save COSTCO whose shoppers' annual income is about $70,000] reported decreases/losses in sales year over year.   Poor to lower middle income consumers are hardest hit by bad economic times and rising gas prices.  And their proportionate share of spending is forced to decrease compared to middle and higher income wage earners.  The increases in W*M sales vice all other retailers indicate that higher wage earners are increasingly shopping and buying at W*M stores.  It's called "trading down" by consumers in their shopping preferences for retail stores.  No doubt the reason APPLE iphones are now for sale at all W*M stores and have been just since December 28, 2008.  APPLE projects that the sales of the iPhones at W*M stores alone in 2009 will increase its revenues by 48 percent.  Who buys these devices?  Poor and low income people?

As I said DIB, you're smart.  But, my friend spinning dyson's move to Malaysia as a gain for the UK and condemning Wal*Mart's as a loss for the US is a logical contradiction.  W*M has clearly eliminated manufacturing jobs in the USA by outsourcing to Chinese suppliers.  As dyson eliminated manufacturing jobs in the UK by moving to Malaysia.   I would argue, convincingly, that if not for Wal*Mart, many of its 1.5 million US retail employees would be unemployed now and probably for the distant future.  Similarly city, state and Federal tax coffers would be emptied/drained for the lack of W*M's real estate, payroll, sales and income tax payments.  

Where one stands, depends on where one sits!  The US has gone from a manufacturing driven economy to a retail base economy.  Thanks in large part to W*M.  Is that a net social and economic good or evil?  And where does dsyon figure into W*M for the future?

Carmine D.