Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Here is the link to the UK Advertising Standards Authority, about Vax's "No Loss of Suction" claim.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45100.htm

mole wrote:

Hiya MOLE,

As a consumer, I can't claim much wisdom in this except that it's a known fact that people will get up to all kinds of off-the-wall stuff for all kinds of reasons if they feel desparate about money. 

In this case, as the Bible and Thorton Wilder have been quoted or reffered to, why not toss in Machiavelli?  "The end justifies the means."  If you think you can't outsell 'em, look for a way to knock 'em out of  the game some other way?  Skullduggery of the most vicious sort.  In this case, I think the intention was to win but if it was they should have taken a closer look at their cards, folded and waited for the next deal.  I'd assume crying over every little thing soon wears thin with the powers that be.  There's only so much sympathy anyone with all that money can garner.  From there on only bribery gets you through.

If Dyson is all that much the big kid on the block, I don't get the nervousness and excitability over "inferior" product EXCEPT that the competition's prices, as mentioned prior,  are beginning to look awful nice to John or Jane Doe who need a vacuum cleaner, want a vacuum cleaner but can in no way justify a four-, five-, six-hundred dollar or more outlay of cash to get what to them is "just a vacuum cleaner."  And "just a vacuum cleaner" is going to be doing pretty good in the stores for a while.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Ah yes, The Prince by Machiavelli!  What is better: For people to fear you and/or like you?  The question for the ages.  The answer, please:  It's better if they do both but if they can't/won't ever like you, then fear is it!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

ASA's message to dyson for its last 2 rulings is loud and clear:  Bye and fold!

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

But alas my good fellow DIB, of what super natural species is James Dyson?  And to what do we owe your unceasing admiration, enthusiasm, and praise for all things that are dyson?  Did you stumble upon a new supernaturale that escaped Charles Darwin in the Galapagos Islands and the inspired authors of the Old and New Testaments?  Darwin, as you might know, is a fellow country man of James!  Is Mr. Dyson of another galatic world and not of this earth like we mere mortals?  I can see the latest NY Times best seller now:  The Divine Dyson Covenants and Doctrines by Sir James Dyson.  Comes with a free ball, not the crystal type but the vacuum!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Surely, the wisdom of the ASA [and you] are right on with this observation and conclusion.  I recall in the adjudication by the ASA against dyson WRT the Electrolux Infinity, the ASA was quick to make it very clear that it did NOT believe and/or attest to the fact that dysons were the leading vacuum seller in the UK [as dyson asserted in its ASA complaint]. 

Consumers express their opinions and judgments about products and makers with their pocketbooks.  I suspect as you so keenly observed that dyson's tanking sales in the UK are at the bottom of the ongoing dyson complaints to the ASA.  Rather than Mr. Dyson accepting the facts and circumstances and adjusting accordingly, say with a less expensive dyson model [call it a standard] that competes with VAX-s, MACH-s, WHISPER-s, HEALTHY HOME-s, and CLEAN VIEW-s, it seeks revenge, not justice, under the veil of the ASA. 

Dyson realizes it's too late, not just in the UK but in the USA too [its largest market].  The less expensive bagless competition [knock-offs as they are called] has overtaken dyson's popularity.  Consumers are speaking with their pocketbooks.

Carmine D.

How is it that the tiny Dyson (by comparison) is written of here as wielding great muscle and/or wielding great monopolistic muscle (outside of patent and trademark protection) when it does not?  Please explain.

DIB


Dyson:
http://www.dyson.co.uk/
Privately held corporation.  Forbes Europe estimates sales of $1b

TTI:
http://www.ttifloorcare.com/
http://www.hoover.com/companyinfo.aspx
http://www.ttigroup.com/investors/financialSummary.php?PHPSESSID=ac7a634382cace3d846ab069b38e0a0e

Hoover UK (Candy Group)
http://www.candy-group.com/index.htm
A privately held corporation.

Electrolux:
http://www.electrolux.com/naportal_us.html

LG
http://www.lge.com/html/gate.html

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

You're chart numbers, whose sources and references you did not provide, while they look nice, are irrelevant for meaningful comparative analyses.  Why?  Unlike dyson which is vacuums, the other brands [TTI, LG, Electrolux, HOOVER Candy UK] have other products beside vacuums:  Major household appliances; Power tools; Floorcare products like rug shampooers and floor washers;  etc. etc.  If we are talking strictly vacuums here, and I presume we are, the numbers unrelated to vacuums have to be culled before comparing.    

If your point is that dyson is small potatoes in the scheme of things [and this is the meaning behind the numbers] then I agree.  Using $500 as the average price of a new dyson vacuum, the annual new dyson units sold in 2007 is 2 MILLION based on sales of $1 BILLION.  The USA alone typically sells 20 MILLION new vacuums a year.   2 MILLION dysons sold in over 50 countries is miniscule.    Obviously, the dyson numbers are overstated for vacuums if they include AirBlade sales too which retail for $1200-$1400 each. 

FWIW:  If you state the number size in the heading column [as you do], you don't have to include again in the detail [as you do].  Why?  Then it reads:  $1 billion billion and/or $3 billion billion.  I don't think that is what you intended.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I went to take a look around at Costco today and sort of felt I was getting the bum's rush as I walked in the door. Just about every seasonal sales item was put out on the sheves. They're really trying hard.   Halloween doo-dads, Thanksgiving stuff  and even Christmas-style cookies.  If I hadn't looked at the calendar today I might well have wondered if I'd overslept big time.  Anyway I passed on the holiday stuff and settled for mutant potatoes too big to be true and trash bags,

The other thing I made note of at the store as I came in was great big stack of boxed Hoover self-propelled Wind Tunnel uprights.  The Price?  $196.00.  Bissell and a Roomba and the Dyson Slim-Jim are still in stock but in a less conspicuous spot in the store. 

In my local Costco, people are generally left on their own to decide about appliance purchases from the limited amount available as zero sales staff is out on the floor to influence your thinking, one way or another, except for the people in hair nets and aprons that try to get you to taste this or that food product ohf their sample carts.  During the several years I've shopped there, I've never seen Costco make much of a to-do about vacuums.  I wonder if the store management feels the Wind  Tunnel is the easiest vacuum sell and set it out in a more prominent part of the store for that reason.

Venson

CarmineD wrote: Hey Carmine,  my numbers are rock solid.  Feel free to disprove them.  I provided links, did you not see them or use them or know how to locate pertinent information?  You’re right of the redundancy, oh well, I was in a rush, picky picky.  I thru up more solid information than most here, including you. :)  So your saying the super large corporations have no advantages over Dyson and Dyson is on equal footing as the super companies?


If you guys keep complaining of Dyson being a monopoly or any sort after viewing just how small his namesake really is then...  it’s just whining and complaining.  The ASA is a quick and easy way to settle disputes versus going to court and nothing more.  Dyson defending his creations no matter how futile is good business and is his right.  And since you guys created nothing (vacuum related and that the forum is aware of) even though you’ve all been vac guys for 125 years collectively (my guess), then standing and defending a money making creation is odd and foreign, is it not?


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

But not the Rock of Ages and now dyson hits a rocky road block with the ASA over the VAX claim before it hits rock bottom. 

There is no need to disprove your precept that dyson is a small time player in vacuums.  I agree.  Dyson is and will always be a niche vacuum player/seller in the USA [if it's lucky in the months and years ahead].  Big box retail store venues are not well suited for niche vacuum sales in the USA.  But greed blinded BEST BUY stores and others. The only whining and complaining is from the dyson camp who took umbrage with both of these statements.  Now it is angry.  Why? One, I was right on about dyson being a niche seller.  Two, dyson must now, like you, reverse course in mid stream [with egg on its face] to survive the economic times.  Big box retailers are culling/dropping dyson models from the shelves to make room for the less expensive knock-offs.

Underlying the above is the dyson camp deal breaker:  Complete and utter lack of support [read respect] for dyson by the ASA and many of the UK vacuum buyers.  This, I believe, is as difficult and impossible for dyson campers, like you, to understand/overcome as the above.  Hence, your understandable and predictable disbelief for ASA's ruling against dyson for the Electrolux Infinity.  Tho misguided as are your personal /professional attacks about the ASA and vacuum industry pros who merit your anti-dyson label.  The message from the ASA and vacuum consumers is loud and clear:  Bye and fold dyson.  It's not about who does it first.  It's the one who copies the best and sells for less! 

In dyson's eagerness and enthusiasm to outdo/show up the vacuum industry and its players [read respect] for the last 100 years, dyson missed that above lesson [and a few other important ones too].

Carmine D.