Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Here is the link to the UK Advertising Standards Authority, about Vax's "No Loss of Suction" claim.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45100.htm

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

To be vessals of sea going minnows!  The best business education I got was not inside the 4 walls of America's institutions of higher learning.  It was 40 plus years as a small business owner/operator.

Dyson should be ashamed of himself for bringing such a frivolous complaint against VAX.  VAX used the same testing organization and standards as dyson AND VAX sought/followed ASA's CAP advice for documenting and advertising the claim!  What was dyson thinking?

Dyson has 2 strikes against it with the ASA:  Electrolux and VAX.  Does the ASA have a "3 strikes and you're out" rule? 

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,more than likely because they were sucessful at this little ploy at one time,against HOOVER, Kenny and the ball fiasco.IONA, etc.

Venson what do you make of all this,Were looking forward to your words of wisdom..........


MOLE

CarmineD wrote: Carmine,

Fiction?  Is God given insight fiction?  Can genius ideas come to the non-genius? - If so, how does it come (from God or from man)?

Concepts in book form.  Sorry to disappoint, I am no follower of the ideas and philosophies of men.        DIB

mole wrote:

Hiya MOLE,

As a consumer, I can't claim much wisdom in this except that it's a known fact that people will get up to all kinds of off-the-wall stuff for all kinds of reasons if they feel desparate about money. 

In this case, as the Bible and Thorton Wilder have been quoted or reffered to, why not toss in Machiavelli?  "The end justifies the means."  If you think you can't outsell 'em, look for a way to knock 'em out of  the game some other way?  Skullduggery of the most vicious sort.  In this case, I think the intention was to win but if it was they should have taken a closer look at their cards, folded and waited for the next deal.  I'd assume crying over every little thing soon wears thin with the powers that be.  There's only so much sympathy anyone with all that money can garner.  From there on only bribery gets you through.

If Dyson is all that much the big kid on the block, I don't get the nervousness and excitability over "inferior" product EXCEPT that the competition's prices, as mentioned prior,  are beginning to look awful nice to John or Jane Doe who need a vacuum cleaner, want a vacuum cleaner but can in no way justify a four-, five-, six-hundred dollar or more outlay of cash to get what to them is "just a vacuum cleaner."  And "just a vacuum cleaner" is going to be doing pretty good in the stores for a while.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Ah yes, The Prince by Machiavelli!  What is better: For people to fear you and/or like you?  The question for the ages.  The answer, please:  It's better if they do both but if they can't/won't ever like you, then fear is it!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

ASA's message to dyson for its last 2 rulings is loud and clear:  Bye and fold!

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

But alas my good fellow DIB, of what super natural species is James Dyson?  And to what do we owe your unceasing admiration, enthusiasm, and praise for all things that are dyson?  Did you stumble upon a new supernaturale that escaped Charles Darwin in the Galapagos Islands and the inspired authors of the Old and New Testaments?  Darwin, as you might know, is a fellow country man of James!  Is Mr. Dyson of another galatic world and not of this earth like we mere mortals?  I can see the latest NY Times best seller now:  The Divine Dyson Covenants and Doctrines by Sir James Dyson.  Comes with a free ball, not the crystal type but the vacuum!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Surely, the wisdom of the ASA [and you] are right on with this observation and conclusion.  I recall in the adjudication by the ASA against dyson WRT the Electrolux Infinity, the ASA was quick to make it very clear that it did NOT believe and/or attest to the fact that dysons were the leading vacuum seller in the UK [as dyson asserted in its ASA complaint]. 

Consumers express their opinions and judgments about products and makers with their pocketbooks.  I suspect as you so keenly observed that dyson's tanking sales in the UK are at the bottom of the ongoing dyson complaints to the ASA.  Rather than Mr. Dyson accepting the facts and circumstances and adjusting accordingly, say with a less expensive dyson model [call it a standard] that competes with VAX-s, MACH-s, WHISPER-s, HEALTHY HOME-s, and CLEAN VIEW-s, it seeks revenge, not justice, under the veil of the ASA. 

Dyson realizes it's too late, not just in the UK but in the USA too [its largest market].  The less expensive bagless competition [knock-offs as they are called] has overtaken dyson's popularity.  Consumers are speaking with their pocketbooks.

Carmine D.

How is it that the tiny Dyson (by comparison) is written of here as wielding great muscle and/or wielding great monopolistic muscle (outside of patent and trademark protection) when it does not?  Please explain.

DIB


Dyson:
http://www.dyson.co.uk/
Privately held corporation.  Forbes Europe estimates sales of $1b

TTI:
http://www.ttifloorcare.com/
http://www.hoover.com/companyinfo.aspx
http://www.ttigroup.com/investors/financialSummary.php?PHPSESSID=ac7a634382cace3d846ab069b38e0a0e

Hoover UK (Candy Group)
http://www.candy-group.com/index.htm
A privately held corporation.

Electrolux:
http://www.electrolux.com/naportal_us.html

LG
http://www.lge.com/html/gate.html

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

You're chart numbers, whose sources and references you did not provide, while they look nice, are irrelevant for meaningful comparative analyses.  Why?  Unlike dyson which is vacuums, the other brands [TTI, LG, Electrolux, HOOVER Candy UK] have other products beside vacuums:  Major household appliances; Power tools; Floorcare products like rug shampooers and floor washers;  etc. etc.  If we are talking strictly vacuums here, and I presume we are, the numbers unrelated to vacuums have to be culled before comparing.    

If your point is that dyson is small potatoes in the scheme of things [and this is the meaning behind the numbers] then I agree.  Using $500 as the average price of a new dyson vacuum, the annual new dyson units sold in 2007 is 2 MILLION based on sales of $1 BILLION.  The USA alone typically sells 20 MILLION new vacuums a year.   2 MILLION dysons sold in over 50 countries is miniscule.    Obviously, the dyson numbers are overstated for vacuums if they include AirBlade sales too which retail for $1200-$1400 each. 

FWIW:  If you state the number size in the heading column [as you do], you don't have to include again in the detail [as you do].  Why?  Then it reads:  $1 billion billion and/or $3 billion billion.  I don't think that is what you intended.

Carmine D.