Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I started the thread about lead cleanup and the Eureka sealed-HEPA system...

I'm now looking at spending the extra dollars to purchase the Simplicity Synergy.  The price tag alone makes me worry that the Eureka sealed HEPA isn't as impressive as the marketing makes it sound.

Again, I know a vacuum cleaner alone isn't a solution to a lead-paint chipping problem but I am venturing to guess that the right vacuum cleaner (with a sealed HEPA system) will improve the situation while the wrong vacuum cleaner (an inexpensive Bissell or Eureka) may actually make the situation worse. 

I cringe to think that every time I'm vacuuming I'm just blowing more lead dust up into the air and making the environment more hazardous than it was to begin with.

The Simplicity salesman I spoke with told me that the Synergy air filtration was "hospital grade."  I also remember reading on here that "hospital grade" is not necessarily a good thing.  Can anyone elaborate on this?

Is $700 a reasonable price for a Synergy (this is marked down $200 with a trade-in). 

I've seen the Minuteman Lead HEPA for $625 here.  Any opinions on if the filtration of the Synergy would be equal to or better than this Minuteman Lead HEPA?

I also forgot to ask the Simplicity salesman about canister vacuums- would these be less expensive?

He did confirm that a bagless vacuum is not the way to go- I will not be purchasing one of these.

Thanks again,

Tech

Motorhead wrote:
The Verve is made in China, not that it matters much anymore.  I've always believed it's not where it's made but who is making it that matters more.  Interestingly enough, the Verve motor warranty is now 7 years as opposed to the 5 on the Korean made S20.  This vacuum should still last 15 years with regular maintenance.

Dusty

Motorhead wrote:

No MOTOR, I haven't had the opportunity.  But it doesn't matter for the question I asked you.

I've seen many many new/full Electrolux automatic [pop-out] genuine bags.  I was asking you about them.  

Forget the new Perfect's paper bag for now.  I was not asking about these.  Focus only on the Electrolux pop out genuine paper bags.  Then please answer my question:  Do you exempt the cardboard collared genuine Electrolux pop out paper bags from your comment that cardboard collared bags with rubber seals become deformed and get adrift.  A simple yes/no will do. 

BTW, to my knowledge, all the RICCAR/SIMPLICITY canns of recent years have been made in either Korea [initially] and/or now China.  These recent canns have all been sourced vacuums not made by Tacony in the USA.  They have given MIELE a run for its money.  And may have even surpassed MIELE in canister sales in the last few years.  I believe an article in US News and World Report specifically addressed this particular subject. 

Carmine D.

Wow, thread sure took off... I'll have to read through the replies later as I only have a few minutes right now.

An update, however...

My vacuum was exchanged for a brand new one, very few questions asked.  I explained all the signs I saw indicating that the vacuum had been used and repackaged and the manager was happy to exchange it.  He stated that he had picked up the vacuum from a nearby store and that he did not know what they may have done to it.  To my surprise he didn't even open the box to make sure the vacuum was in there; my only thoughts are maybe he was reluctant to because of my mentioning the lead or perhaps he simply didn't want customers in the store to see it.  I did speak favorably about the vacuum to a customer who asked how I liked it since whatever the cause of the problem is, I doubt it is something that happens on a regular basis. 

The salesperson who sold me the vacuum said that she would bring the issue up the next day in a meeting she had with a Simplicity- I'm not sure if Simplicity holds Sunday meetings with its sales people but perhaps she meant Monday, perhaps she lied- either way, I'm satisfied. 

I was reading through the instruction manual and read that when inserting the bag I am supposed to listen for a "click."  I had taken the bag out of the previous vacuum when inspecting it to determine if it was used or not and when I put it back in I heard no "click," (didn't know I was supposed to).  I'm not sure if this could be the cause of the problem or not?  I am hesitant to open the bag compartment to look inside my new vacuum- should there be any issue with doing this?

I did read far enough into this thread to see that Mole thinks I am lying.  Although I no longer have the old vacuum I do plan on calling the store to let them know about the click.  I would hate to see test engineers in a lab trying to determine the root cause of the problem which is ultimately the result of a store not demoing bag installation or including an instruction manual in a repackaged box.  Mole, I invite you to listen in on the phone call.  If you would like to make the call yourself to the store in order to ensure that I am not calling a friend, that's fine with me too.  You could call me and then call the store using 3-way calling.  I only ask that you not name the store here on these forums because I do not want anyone to have a negative opinion of them- their customer service is too impressive to me.  I suppose you might just end up telling me that the store employees are involved- if that's the case I guess I will not pursue trying to convince you of the truth.

Mole, please let me know by the end of the week.  If I haven't heard from you by Friday I am going to make the call without you. 

Dyson... Sheesh...  *rolls eyes*.  I love my Verve.  The marketing alone tells me something is wrong with Dyson.

Regards,

Tech

Make sure you get John Kaido on the call

MOLE

Hello David:

Glad to hear that all's well that ends well.  Please remember to post a review and enjoy vacuuming with your new Verve.

MOLE, like me, is a seasoned veteran of the vacuum industry.  We're from the old school and when the usual safety features don't work, we start suspecting the worse.  Do not take umbrage. 

Perhaps the lack of the "click" played a role in the problem you experienced.  But without a doubt the store and staff were slipshod with you and the vacuum/sale/demo. 

Try the bag and see if you have a feel/knack for the correct installation.  Be not afraid.

Carmine D.

 

techphet wrote:
Now we are getting somewhere.  You did mess w/the bag.  Make sure that you read the instructions and understand them.  You are not going to really hear a "click"all that well.  You are going to feel something more than hear.  When you insert the bag collar in the holder, you will slide it all the way in.  It will hit a bump on both sides.  When you close the lid, it will close very easily.   You can look through the intake(where the hose connects to the machine) and see the inside of the bag.  You will not see any part of the cardboard collar if the bag is installed properly.  The lid can be opened and closed multiple times w/o hurting the bag.

"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum  will take care of you."

Mike_W wrote:
Mike,

Now that I have an instruction manual that's a lot easier to do.  If the manual had been linked under the product page on the website I would have found it there.  "About MY Simplicity"  sounds to me like something a user needs to register for (like 'My Yahoo').  "About Simplicity," is where I would expect to find a company history and contact information. 

Thanks for the tips- I'm sure I'll be looking through the intake each time I install a bag.  I would hate for the inside of my bag compartment to be such a mess again. 

Carmine,

The store definitely has some room for improvement but the way they treated me makes up for any mishaps.  It might be a few days before I build up the bravery to open the bag compartment- besides, I wouldn't want to let any dust in.  I take a bit too much offense anytime someone insinuates that I am lying. 

Tech

I took two pictures of the bag compartment, is this the bag holder coupling partially shown in this one?  Sorry, the pictures aren't cropped, I shot them with a 50mm lens and didn't think about capturing anything other than the dust.

I took a look at the plastic part that the bag slides into (coupling?) when first examining the vacuum- it looks like the weight of the bag pulls the mechanism down, allowing the door to close?  That feature did operate properly, it's not like the bag was just floating in there...  Hopefully the store had a chance to look at it and can give me a bit of feedback tomorrow (I assume you're not interested in conferencing the call Mole?).

The bag argument has me worried that I'll see my bag come 'adrift' in the future.  As Carmine pointed out earlier though, at least I know the dust is staying inside the bag compartment. 


Tech

techphet wrote:

Hello David Tech:

Yes, the Verve bag holder coupling is pictured here with the bag installed.  This is a better photo for diagnosing the problem with the bag installation in the holder than the first one you posted.  Why?  It shows that the Verve cardboard bag collar has caved in.  It is not straight and stiff [as when it is new].  This is the reason [IMHO] that the dirt escaped into the Verve bag compartment.  This probably happened when you opened, removed, and reinstalled the original paper bag.  The cardboard collar did not become adrift.  Instead, more likely it became concave [deformed].  This condition I believe degraded the collar and seal of the bag in the coupling. 

However, it still does not definitively explain the reason the Verve fail safe switch did not shut off the vacuum.  Based on  the amount of dirt in the bag compartment, one would presume the fail safe switch would have engaged.  Unless, despite all the dirt, none/not enough passed through the pre-motor filter in the bag compartment into the motor compartment to allow the motor's sensor to notice a problem.  Not a surprising conclusion.  Since the dirt never escaped onto the outside of the vacuum either.  A testament to the quality and craftsmanship of the Verve vacuum, despite its country of production.  It's still made to Tacony's meticulous specifications.  Which based on your case, demonstrate a high standard of excellence.  IMHO.

As a general rule for vacuum users, the cardboard bag collars are not made and meant to be removed and reinstalled prior to replacing the paper bag.  Once you install a new paper bag and collar in the bag holder coupling, it should remain there until it's time to remove and replace with a new bag.  Not to be removed and reinstalled during its useful life.  Especially when its weighted down with dirt.  Making it more difficult to reinstall properly.

I'm pleased and delighted that the store did the right thing by you.  Renews my confidence in my fellow small business vacuum cleaner owner/operator stores.

You've done a yeoman's job in providing us here the facts and circumstances to diagnose the original Verve problem.  Not an easy task for someone like you, who does not have any professional vacuum cleaner experience, to do on a Forum. 

Enjoy your new Verve and new home.

Carmine D.

From what I've been told (for what thats worth...LOL) Tacony couldn't get Daewoo to respond to changes/improvements etc in a timely or responsive manner. They chose to build/manage a new plant in China to have greater control.


As per the bag: The click, is as was mentioned, is a "feel", as cardboard makes the softest of clicking sounds.


The picture looks like the bag was just the slighest askew when the lid was shut down causing the collar on the lid to crush the cardboard enough to miss-shapen(sp) it. Allowing the air flow to by-pass the inlet.