Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Original Message Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am |
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Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread. . 
 
 
This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig
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mole
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Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783
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Reply #210 Jul 9, 2008 6:28 pm |
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Hey Carmine, I hear a lot of refurb whiners here, but the number of refurbs on the market look to be miniscule compared to retail sold vacuums. If and until someone takes a break from whining and demonstrates some numbers, then and only then can this so-called refurb flooding with its… “It’s ruining my business” can be taken seriously and/or debated. DIB
You can choose to ignore it or deny it for now but trust me this is going to kill dysons integrity.
You can mark your calendar,july 9,2008, THE MOLE TOLD YOU SO . HOWS THE HAND VAC SELLING??????????????? MOLE
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Reply #211 Jul 9, 2008 6:54 pm |
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Hello, DC18: The DC03 and 04 are native to UK not the USA. You and I have different thinking on the DC07 and 14. They obviously are fine for the UK and Europe, and that's your frame of reference. I respect that. Not good for the USA. Just as the dyson DC11 appears to have done well and win praise in all places except the USA. Pulled out after 6 months in the USA. Big box stores and indy's couldn't sell for $499. Many were returned due to the whimpy power head. It skipped, stuttered, hic-cupped and stopped on most USA rugs. Are you seeing a pattern here in the USA with the early dyson models and their brush rolls? It's crystal clear to me. This is a losing battle for dyson supporters. The brush rolls were inferior for USA rugs and carpets. Period. End of debate. Move on. Concentrate your time and efforts by helping out your dyson compandres with a defense for the new dysons selling for $500 plus and require monthly filter maintenance. That's today and tomorrow's dyson issue. That's a biggie. Especially if the dyson claim: "Never loses suction" gets shot down by the courts. Be prepared for it to happen! Then what? Wait....what's that I hear in the distance? Is that the faint voice of DIB shouting? Listen! Listen carefully. What's he saying? Ball technology steers and pivots vacuums....is that it? Is that all there is to $500 dysons. B-a-l-l-s? Better do better. I hear the sound of sayanora to dyson playing on the steel guitar. Carmine D.
DC. Remember: 
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Reply #212 Jul 10, 2008 6:39 am |
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Out of all the DC07s I've used, I was never able to get any ratcheting out of any of them. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the ratcheting problem Carmine has experienced was not due to the Mohawk carpet, but rather, the fact that perhaps the original clutch was defective and needed to be swapped. When working "properly" the clutch digs strongly into any pile carpet (even thick Tommy...er, Mohawk) with no ratcheting noises whatsoever. Replacing with a genuine DYSON clutch (not a bojack replacement from Hesco with the DYR prefix as Mole sells) will remedy the situation no doubt.
For those of you who think the DC07/DC14 brushroll is the "worst there is" or a "failure", what about the Eureka Vibra-Groomer, which Dyson obviously took a page from, or even the much earlier Hoover brushroll of the 1910's? Are those bad because of their shape? Does the shape of the Vibra-Groomer adversely affect carpet cleaning ability and have a tendency to wrap pet hair around itself? Probably, certainly not any worse than Dyson, however since it is NOT Dyson it isn't mentioned here. Those brushrolls were designed to act as a secondary fan or impeller of sorts, generating air in addition to vigorously agitating the carpet. I wouldn't call that "bad" at all. The DC17 brushroll is more aggressive, yes, not due to its shape but rather the bristle pattern and the strength of the bristles. Some of you seem to think that the DC07/14 brushroll is "weak" due to its shape...all I can say is ignorance is bliss.
-MH
Motorhead, Thanks for clearing up a lot of things. . I did say in the past the DC07 and DC14 had the weakest brushroll (compared to the 15/17) in a thread where I was defending Dyson’s “failing out” with so-called industry standard Kapok tests. It is a garbage test, not an ASTM standard but a bad-mouthing of Dyson’s by dealers standard. I have no opinion of the brushroll shape or size but believe it spins slower (when pressed into carpeting) than the DC15/17. Regardless, it looks like deceptive dealers exclusively use and believe the DC07/14 are the Dyson’s of choice when failing out a Dyson in their Kapok “tests.”. DIB . Here's two... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zulOHXdDmk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXA0N0V2uOQ
This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Reply #213 Jul 10, 2008 7:00 am |
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Hey DIB: There are none so blind as they who will not see. Open your eyes, look at the dyson brush rolls in the DC07, 11, and 14. Then look at the brush rolls in other vacuums. Compare. It's easy to see why dyson scrubbed them. The VDTA had a whole exhibit this year on vacuum brush rolls. Why? An integral component for rug cleaning. The crux of the matter. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Reply #214 Jul 10, 2008 7:15 am |
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You can choose to ignore it or deny it for now but trust me this is going to kill dysons integrity. You can mark your calendar,july 9,2008, THE MOLE TOLD YOU SO . HOWS THE HAND VAC SELLING??????????????? MOLE
Hey MOLE Man:
The dyson menschkins are too young [some too blind] to see what the refurbs did to Regina in the 80/90's. Regina was a high flyer on Wall Street and Main Steet. Everyone had to have a Regina Housekeeper. They were sold everywhere. What happened? Refurbs! Brought Regina down lock stock and barrel. Landed two Regina management executives in jail for awhile: The CEO and CFO. Never to hold a management job again in their LIFETIME! Carmine D.
This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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dusty
Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264
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Reply #215 Jul 10, 2008 9:50 am |
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Hey MOLE Man: The dyson menschkins are too young [some too blind] to see what the refurbs did to Regina in the 80/90's. Regina was a high flyer on Wall Street and Main Steet. Everyone had to have a Regina Housekeeper. They were sold everywhere. What happened? Refurbs! Brought Regina down lock stock and barrel. Landed two Regina management executives in jail for awhile: The CEO and CFO. Never to hold a management job again in their LIFETIME! Carmine D. Creative bookkeeping brought Regina down, not the refurbs. Refurbs are part of all manufacturers business, we get monthly sheets showing what's available and the big savings offered. The scary thing is that I know we see these sheets last, after the bulk have been sold off to liquidation stores. I would put money on Eureka and Hoover having to deal with far more refurbs than Dyson ever will. Dusty
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Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
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Reply #216 Jul 10, 2008 11:28 am |
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Motorhead, Thanks for clearing up a lot of things. . I did say in the past the DC07 and DC14 had the weakest brushroll (compared to the 15/17) in a thread where I was defending Dyson’s “failing out” with so-called industry standard Kapok tests. It is a garbage test, not an ASTM standard but a bad-mouthing of Dyson’s by dealers standard. I have no opinion of the brushroll shape or size but believe it spins slower (when pressed into carpeting) than the DC15/17. Regardless, it looks like deceptive dealers exclusively use and believe the DC07/14 are the Dyson’s of choice when failing out a Dyson in their Kapok “tests.”. DIB . Here's two... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zulOHXdDmk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXA0N0V2uOQ DIB, absolutely, those videos are a perfect example. In fact I'm almost certain we have discussed the DC07/14 being the "poster boy vacuums" on here previously as well, I can't remember the specific thread I know this isn't the first time that has been mentioned. They ARE the models that dishonest, biased vac dealers LOVE to bash to sell the brands they're pushing (which I might add is so painfully obvious here). In fact, in one video the person isn't a "dealer" at all, he just happens to work for an Oreck store (the remaining independent Oreck dealers cannot sell the XL21, and of course there's the forest green carpet characteristic of every Oreck store across the country) and is pushing Oreck. Whether or not the Dyson is tested properly and fairly is unimportant to them. Trying to convince potential customers that the Miele or Oreck is better, and taking advantage of the Dyson DC07/14's so-called "weak point" (a soft, slow-turning brushroll which is not necessarily a negative characteristic) IS. Hence a wide variety of excuses are given by these biased dealers to avoid Dysons solely based on either of these two models, which (as usual) in the grand scheme of things turn out to be grossly exaggerated and inconsequential. Like the kapok test which (theoretically...) supports the dealers' claim of "it won't deep clean well" or "it's not effective on pet hair". Sorry to say but if you vacuum at warp speed OF COURSE the machine is not going to pick up as well as it would if you vacuum deliberately as was meant to be done. Unless of course the vacuum used is depending on brushroll RPMs alone with not much in the way of suction or airflow, effective only for surface cleaning and to simply make the carpet appear clean, as in the first video. The irony here is that people are lazy. These dealers, Oreck store employees, you name it do not want to work hard to try and prove that their machine is better. Path of least resistance. Hence, putting the $549 top-of-the-line Dyson (complete with aggressive high-RPM brushroll) against that particular machine is not the ideal choice. Putting the $399 entry-level Dyson is. To me, it would seem that 9 times out of 10, the average buyer would not ordinarily know the difference between the DC07 and DC17 until (or unless) the machine is demonstrated to them. -MH
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Reply #217 Jul 10, 2008 11:36 am |
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DIB, absolutely, those videos are a perfect example. In fact I'm almost certain we have discussed the DC07/14 being the "poster boy vacuums" on here previously as well, I can't remember the specific thread I know this isn't the first time that has been mentioned. They ARE the models that dishonest, biased vac dealers LOVE to bash to sell the brands they're pushing (which I might add is so painfully obvious here). In fact, in one video the person isn't a "dealer" at all, he just happens to work for an Oreck store (the remaining independent Oreck dealers cannot sell the XL21, and of course there's the forest green carpet characteristic of every Oreck store across the country) and is pushing Oreck. Whether or not the Dyson is tested properly and fairly is unimportant to them. Trying to convince potential customers that the Miele or Oreck is better, and taking advantage of the Dyson DC07/14's so-called "weak point" (a soft, slow-turning brushroll which is not necessarily a negative characteristic) IS. Hence a wide variety of excuses are given by these biased dealers to avoid Dysons solely based on either of these two models, which (as usual) in the grand scheme of things turn out to be grossly exaggerated and inconsequential. Like the kapok test which (theoretically...) supports the dealers' claim of "it won't deep clean well" or "it's not effective on pet hair". Sorry to say but if you vacuum at warp speed OF COURSE the machine is not going to pick up as well as it would if you vacuum deliberately as was meant to be done. Unless of course the vacuum used is depending on brushroll RPMs alone with not much in the way of suction or airflow, effective only for surface cleaning and to simply make the carpet appear clean, as in the first video.
The irony here is that people are lazy. These dealers, Oreck store employees, you name it do not want to work hard to try and prove that their machine is better. Path of least resistance. Hence, putting the $549 top-of-the-line Dyson (complete with aggressive high-RPM brushroll) against that particular machine is not the ideal choice. Putting the $399 entry-level Dyson is. To me, it would seem that 9 times out of 10, the average buyer would not ordinarily know the difference between the DC07 and DC17 until (or unless) the machine is demonstrated to them.
-MH
MH,
I noticed in one of the videos tha baking soda ( a household item ) was used in the test. Carmine has contended that there is more kapok than baking soda in homes. Another made mention that the Oreck would ruin wood floors. It does not have the standard Dyson brush cut off feature. Of course you already that. 
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DC18
Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294
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Reply #218 Jul 10, 2008 2:23 pm |
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Hello, DC18: The DC03 and 04 are native to UK not the USA. You and I have different thinking on the DC07 and 14. They obviously are fine for the UK and Europe, and that's your frame of reference. I respect that. Not good for the USA. Just as the dyson DC11 appears to have done well and win praise in all places except the USA. Pulled out after 6 months in the USA. Big box stores and indy's couldn't sell for $499. Many were returned due to the whimpy power head. It skipped, stuttered, hic-cupped and stopped on most USA rugs. Are you seeing a pattern here in the USA with the early dyson models and their brush rolls? It's crystal clear to me. This is a losing battle for dyson supporters. The brush rolls were inferior for USA rugs and carpets. Period. End of debate. Move on. Concentrate your time and efforts by helping out your dyson compandres with a defense for the new dysons selling for $500 plus and require monthly filter maintenance. That's today and tomorrow's dyson issue. That's a biggie. Especially if the dyson claim: "Never loses suction" gets shot down by the courts. Be prepared for it to happen! Then what? Wait....what's that I hear in the distance? Is that the faint voice of DIB shouting? Listen! Listen carefully. What's he saying? Ball technology steers and pivots vacuums....is that it? Is that all there is to $500 dysons. B-a-l-l-s? Better do better. I hear the sound of sayanora to dyson playing on the steel guitar. Carmine D.
Hello Carmine D
Thanks for your comments. I know the DC03 and DC04 are native to the UK, what I was getting at is that the same brush bar design used on these is the smae used on the DC07 and DC14! I was only adding to Motorhead comments. I have moved on but someone keeps bringing the brush bar up at every opportunity! Hence others to post comments again! I can't comment on prices over in the USA but as I've commented on this forum about the new Dysons epecially the DC24 and DC25 the pricing of these are very competitive when you look at the prices of previous Dyson Models that have exceed the £300.00 mark. The DC24 is selling (RRP) at £239.99 but I've seen it as little as £204.00. The £239.99 price is the same as a new DC14 (non brush control) model! As for the DC25 that is selling at (RRP) at £279.99 (Animal about £299.99!) baring in mind the base DC15 model was over £300.00 when it was launched. Both models come with HEPA which previous Dyson didn't unless you had the Allergy or Animal models (UK). So as far as I'm concerned I don't think the pricing of these 2 new models in the UK is way out. As for the filter cleaning being every month (DC24) and every 3 months (DC25), like some have said to high light to users they need to check the filters. Plus you now have access to checking and washing the post motor filter which you didn't have to do before, it was permanant but could be replaced if needed! Or like the DC01 post motor HEPA you replaced every year or so. With it being a washable HEPA may be it needs checking more hence the change in filter cleaning!? Who knows only Dyson can tell you the real answer to why they have changed this! Surely!? Didn't Dusty say they have been using the DC24 in his shop and the filter was ok after a month! Depends on use I suppose! I could ask why most bagged vacuums now use a paper bag you can only use once, unlike paperbags in th past that had a removable clip to empty and if ok to re-use it again! May be has something partly to do with the dust and fine dust blocking and clogging the pores in the filter paper! Restricting airflow! But may be it 's down to partly convience on the users part which is a world we live in today! DC18
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