Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
|
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
 |
Original Message Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am |
|
Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread. . 
 
 
This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig
|
dusty
Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264
![]()
|
 |
Reply #180 Jul 6, 2008 1:23 pm |
|
DIB: From dyson product literature: A dyson vacuum cleaner has excellent dirt pick-up from ALL surfaces-not just carpets. It doesn't say except some. In fact it's one of 4 reasons dyson says customers should buy dysons. Well, Dusty: Mr. Wordsmither, what do you think when dyson uses the collective ALL versus me? Gets a pass? Like LNT and BBB? Carmine D. In this case I would take the statement to mean bare floors, something the majority of uprights fail at. As far as Dyson using "All" as opposed to you, the difference is clear. Dyson told you the vacuum wouldn't work on your particular carpet and to bring it back...they admitted it would not do the job. You on the other hand refuse to admit much of anything when it's pointed out you are incorrect and instead pump out posts with answers to questions that were never even asked. You said, once again that height adjustments were the standard on ALL USA vacuums. That wasn't true. If you'd just said you were incorrect and then claimed it's standard on most uprights this conversation would have been over 4 pages ago. I am curious to your thoughts, nowhere on the Oreck website does it state that the XL21 is not recommended for shag carpets. If everyone in the Oreck stores knows this and sells away from it shouldn't it also be on the website? Dusty
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #181 Jul 6, 2008 2:10 pm |
|
A much maligned here HOOVER upright, the Z, has a patented DigiTouch Control pad with switch settings that adjust automatically to carpet height adjustments for high, medium, and low and bare floor. THe Z 700 even has a soft brush mode for the brush roll. As an aside: Contrary to popular beliefs and posts here that these Z models would not last, they continue to be available for sale from HOOVER. Prices are: $289 and $369. The Z 400 I gifted to a local Church back in November 2007 is still going strong under commercial cleaning requirements. I see it being used and abused regularly by the maintenance staff who say it is their vacuum of choice. I'm thinking about gifting the DC07 pink too. Let the clean up staff match them off. Should be a fair match up. The dyson is 2 years old and never used. The HOOVER Z is 8 months and used and abused daily. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #182 Jul 6, 2008 2:28 pm |
|
I am curious to your thoughts, nowhere on the Oreck website does it state that the XL21 is not recommended for shag carpets. If everyone in the Oreck stores knows this and sells away from it shouldn't it also be on the website?
Dusty
Hey Dusty:
My thoughts are threefold: First: ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers. ALL surfaces, not just carpets. That's false. Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets. It doesn't. Second: ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period. If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges. ORECK pays the shipping back. Finally, third: ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.' I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment. They don't need to be told. How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households? Worthy of a mention on a Web Site? No. Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store. My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing. Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor. Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop. How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households? Pretty much so I'd say. More so than really long shag in my opinion. Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork: To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate. They encountered this problem long before I called. I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention. Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs. I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets. Spouted off like it was routine SOP. Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! ORECK works fine for the last year. Easy to push and pull. A delight to use. Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort. Literally. When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself. $150, 8 pounds and works great. DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs. Dead in the water from day one and still. Medium pile wool loop. What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? Carmine D.
This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #183 Jul 6, 2008 4:01 pm |
|
Hello DC18: Here's the flaw in your thinking, which in theory is great but practice is not. It is legendary in the USA with the HOOVER Dial in the early 60's. Also lauded for self-adjusting floating head. But murder to push and pull over many of the carpets of the day. HOOVER added a 3 position manual height adjustment within 1 year and the now famous automatic power drive shortly after. The floating head 'sinks' into medium and high carpets [especially with backing and padding]. Making the dysons DC07 and DC14 hard to push and pull. And setting off the clutch shut off on the brush bar. Carmine D.
My DC07 and DC14 was very to push and pull because the head did not sink into the carpet as you imply. Never got the ratcheting noise.
Your case (as are you ) is and odd one.
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #184 Jul 6, 2008 4:04 pm |
|
Dusty: MOLE gave you the reason. The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt. Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades. The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY. Repairs are not! Carmine D. Notice dusty did not say Dyson has the brush / belt problem. The service degrades on bagged vacuums as soon as you start filling the bag. That eliminates Dyson doesn't it. A vacuum should not be set at its highest setting simply to make it easier to push or pull. I am sure that you know why.
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #185 Jul 6, 2008 4:08 pm |
|
DIB: From dyson product literature: A dyson vacuum cleaner has excellent dirt pick-up from ALL surfaces-not just carpets. It doesn't say except some. In fact it's one of 4 reasons dyson says customers should buy dysons. Well, Dusty: Mr. Wordsmither, what do you think when dyson uses the collective ALL versus me? Gets a pass? Like LNT and BBB? Carmine D.
The Dyson does pick up dirt from all surfaces. They never said all carpets, just all surfaces. Sounds like some of your posts. Like all uprights. Then you start making exclusions when you get caught in another lie.
BTW, Dyson doesn't give a crap about the opinion of an habitual liar like you.
|
HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #186 Jul 6, 2008 4:27 pm |
|
Hey Dusty: My thoughts are threefold: First: ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers. ALL surfaces, not just carpets. That's false. Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets. It doesn't. Dyson made no false claims. Only a moron would thinlk all carpets. Second: ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period. If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges. ORECK pays the shipping back. Buy the Dyson at a BB and you can do tghe same thing. Oreck is not unique here. Finally, third: ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.' I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment. They don't need to be told. Why did you make this statement if you think most customers know that they need the manual adjustment? Now you say they don't need to be told. Another reversal on your part. MOLE gave you the reason. The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt. Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades. The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY. Repairs are not! Carmine D. How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households? Worthy of a mention on a Web Site? No. Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store. See if this is correct please. Dyson should say not effective on all carpet types and Oreck should not say this. Does anyone see another of Carmine's double standards? My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing. Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor. Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop. How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households? Pretty much so I'd say. More so than really long shag in my opinion. It seems that the big difference in my carpet and yours is the type of material. No Dyson ever gave a problem on mine. I have used the DC07 on thick wool carpet at a relatives home and again no problem. Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork: To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate. They encountered this problem long before I called. I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention. Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs. I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets. Spouted off like it was routine SOP. Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! ORECK works fine for the last year. Easy to push and pull. A delight to use. Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort. Literally. When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself. $150, 8 pounds and works great. DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs. Dead in the water from day one and still. Medium pile wool loop. Really, a vacuum that goes over hard surfaces with ease. Wonders never cease. I never realized that Oreck was self propelled. How else could it go by itself? It is no surprise that your electric broom glides over carpet. No suction to pull it into the carpet. What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? Sounds like the copied you and Oreck by not revealing the whole truth. Carmine D.
|
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #187 Jul 6, 2008 4:45 pm |
|
Hi DIB,
Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series. Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.
Dusty Dusty, Thanks for the info. I think Sebo simply put in some “background” for one of the reasons for their patent/invention, keeping costs down was mentioned too. To be more specific Sebo did not say their motor or servos were a problem, only in general. I take it you have not seen a non-motored height adjustment either? DIB Here is the patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=Y9mBAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,266,861
|
dusty
Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #188 Jul 6, 2008 4:51 pm |
|
Hey Dusty: My thoughts are threefold: First: ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers. ALL surfaces, not just carpets. That's false. Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets. It doesn't. Second: ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period. If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges. ORECK pays the shipping back. Finally, third: ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.' I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment. They don't need to be told. How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households? Worthy of a mention on a Web Site? No. Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store. My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing. Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor. Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop. How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households? Pretty much so I'd say. More so than really long shag in my opinion. Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork: To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate. They encountered this problem long before I called. I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention. Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs. I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets. Spouted off like it was routine SOP. Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! ORECK works fine for the last year. Easy to push and pull. A delight to use. Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort. Literally. When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself. $150, 8 pounds and works great. DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs. Dead in the water from day one and still. Medium pile wool loop. What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? Carmine D. Thanks for finally answering a question. Though I have noticed that once again the whole conversation has turned away from your original inaccurate comments without any hint of admittance that you were incorrect in your statement. Nice one. On your second point, good for Oreck. Everybody should give a 30 day money back policy. We do at our store and you'll find most department stores do too. The fact is that no matter what is claimed all houses, applications, carpets, and floors are different. You never really know if any product will work in your environment until you get it home. On your third point, you give to much credit to the customer. Do you believe that the majority of people that shop for vacuums in a box store really know what they want or need? I've stood in vacuum aisles at Wal-Mart and watched people choose. They go for color, amps, bagless. On your customer service rep at Dyson, he /she is no different than any other rep. They all have pat answers to questions in the hopes of saving a sale and keeping the customer happy. When all else fails, return the product. You are always quick to mention Dyson refurbs. What happens to all the Orecks that get sent back under free trial? As to your last question, I believe I answered that in the last post. The Dyson statement was "cleans all surfaces, not just carpets". I read that as it works all around the home, not just on carpets. Use it on your floor, dust with it, clean the car...whatever. Nowhere does it say it works on "ALL" carpets. Dusty
|
CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
![]()
|
|
|
Reply #189 Jul 6, 2008 6:24 pm |
|
Hello Dusty: What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know. Not a clue. But I will ask my ORECK sources and post. What I do know with absolute certainty is this: I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily. Getting ready to right now. I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt. I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors. Tho they have other vacuums. They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S. Old to very new ORECK-s. They are pleased too. I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s.. The same is true for them. I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07. I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK. The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still: Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest. Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better. BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user. In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users. That's HS and MOTOR. While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself. That's what the 30 day free home trial is for. To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
|
|
|
