Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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Venson,

I seriously question CR's testing methodology when it comes to testing vacuum cleaners. If you read all of the reports that they have ever published on vacuum cleaners, you will note some glaring discrepancies between what they reported as reliable, good performing vacuums, and what actual performance and reliabilty proved to be. You may recall a few years back the brouhaha over the rating of the Hoover Windtunnel as nearly equal to the Miele Red Star in filtration capability. CR also subtracted points from Miele because the belt in the power nozzle was difficult to change while neglecting to mention it was a notched gear-driven belt, and would need replacing rarely as opposed to a flat belt.

I applaud this dear woman's efforts to rescue strays and shelter them. God bless her, and she has allergies, too. It may be a stretch for her budget, but she is money ahead to buy the filtrete bags and avoid increasing her prescription costs and decreasing her breathing comfort. No portable vacuum that I am aware of has yet to equal the Mieles in filtration, with the exception of the Nilfisks, and not all of their models are available here in the US, and the possible exception of at least some of the Lindhaus units. Miele offers more choices, less expensive models, and a much wider variety of nozzles to customize the unit to the specific application.

CR is lost when it comes to critical thinking (vacuum cleaners).  Although they do a hell-of-a-job reading from measuring instruments.

DIB

Hi Trebor,

CR does have its awkward moments but overall it's not that bad.  Over the years, I've bought items that got good recommendation in the annual guide and have been happy with the choice.  My favorite example is a set of Marantz speakers that I bought around 1978 that I finally gave away when I was leaving the country about eleven years later.  The friend that I'd given them to kept them and finally gave them up for something new maybe four years ago. I've trusted CR's insight and findings regarding everything from pots and pans to TVs and dishwashers and in all those areas have been very satisfied.  MY big mess-up came when I ventured to spend due to name and bought what I thought was an ingeniously designed dishwasher by Bosch that was worse than machines I'd owned at less than two-thirds the price. If there has been an alternate but equal examination of the same vacs by an unrelated source I'd be glad to hear of it.  Anyway . . .

I mentioned the Tempo merely as an example as it was the lowest priced out of the top five in the ratings.  The remainder priced from $170 to over $500 -- still well beneath the price of the S7 and still rated as excellent where emissions were concerned.  I'm satisfied that there is a happy and affordable medium out there for shoppers looking for good cleaning and emissions without having to pass the $400 mark unless they just must.

My issue reamains.  Yes there is the ideal but everybody can't buy the ideal or sometimes, after larger than usual expenditures of money to get something"good", be able to manage upkeep due to silly pricing.  I have a Nilfisk GM90 and the suggested three year or so replacement of the HEPA still means over $150.  The bags -- nice size -- are about $15 for a pack of five and even in worst conditions (I had it at my office before I move the Hoover Z in) gives you a lot of bang for the buck.  However, the sweetest part of that deal was that I did not buy it new but used and in great condition off eBay -- Eureka-clone power nozzle included.  That being I was less inclined to get my dander up about after-market goods since the base price of the machine was so nice.

I like Nilfisk, I like Miele.  I like lots of vacuums, but what happens?  You soak me on the initial purchase and keep on soaking me every time I come back for a bag or filter. It is going to take a long, long time to convince me that the going price for after-market necessities for upkeep of many fo our "better" is reasonable.  I highly recommend the purchase of "pre-owned" high-end machines, individual to individual, I find it hard to describe what to look for though it's easy enough for me when I'm shopping for myself.

Then again, when you get right down to it there is another way to look at this you know . . . 

I once took care of someone's townhouse and while vacuuming the dining room I accidentally nudged a small three-legged table that a genuine Canton teapot sat on. The result was the glorious sound of antiquity shattering. Nice in the metaphorical sense but not so nice when it comes with a price tag.

 What could I do but tell the owner exactly what had happened and wait for the shouting to begin?  Vaguely aware of the price of the thing I was expecting to immediately hear that my services would no longer be needed.  Instead he said, "If you can't afford to have it broken, don't buy it."  That's certainly a lovely philosopy but I doubt that I'll ever be able to live by it.

Best,

Venson

dusty wrote:

Amen!

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

I love it.  Read on.

Grand daughter number one [5 in March] secretly vacuumed the stairs and steps today using a Dirt Devil hand held vacuum.  Her Mom shuts the shower water to hear the vacuum running.  And finds the little one wrapping the cord and putting the vacuum away.  She innocently asks her Mom if her unsolicited vacuuming made her Mom happy.  And of course, it did, and her Mom told her so many times.

Later on in the day. granddaughter number one approaches her Mom and reminds her again of her good deed.  And then politely apologizes for having "accidently" broken the play chair in grand daughter number 2's bedroom.  Gotta love them!  Of course papa has the job to fix because as grand daughter number 1 says:  My papa can fix everything!

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

It's sweet that she made a real effort to reconcile the matter and not ignore it until it was discovered.  She has a mind and heart in the right place.  May it always be so.

Venson

Consumer Reports.  Does any magazine draw as many rants and raves as it?  I admit, I read it and subscribe to it but the way they rate vacuums drive me crazy. CR tests new, out of box, all things being equal vacuums.  I have no problem with their test results as reported but I do take issue (and if you read the CR forums I'm not alone) with the fact they don't do any kind of long term tests in a real world situation. A vacuum is not a toaster.  It doesn't perform the same every day just like it came out of the box. If you don't change belts, bags, filters etc as you're supposed to the machines will perform completely different to how the CR ratings show but there is never a mention of this. I get no end of customers that tell me how they bought on a CR "best buy" and can't believe how poorly their vacuum performs after only a year.  Had they changed the belt? No.  Filters? No. Have any idea that they should? No.  They just expected it to work.  While I understand it's up to the consumer to operate their machine properly it's clear that most of the buying public do not.  I'd like to see a report done after 6 months of home use, using the machine once or twice a week with no servicing except for bag changes or bin dumpings (something most consumers seem to be able to handle).  I have no doubt that anything with a geared or v belt, using better quality bags would take up most of the top spots while the best rated box store machines would fall quickly to the bottom.

My rant.  I feel better now.

Dusty

Trebor wrote:
I agree with you on all points BUT for those of us not in the business....it's "just" a vacuum.  Until the customer actually has to buy 6 or 7 disposable machines they generally don't care about quality.

Dusty (who's now going to ration his supply of TP for the next day)

Venson,

I appreciate everything in your response, and yet I cannot concur with your rather generous view of CR ratings (BTW, you did not like your Bosch dishwasher? I replaced my broke 12 yr old  K/A with one and LOVE it! I cannot find a single fault with it.) Look at the highly rated kenmore canisters that need frequent hose replacments. CR has been way off the mark too many times for me to have much faith in them. If you can, get copies of all their vac ratings over the last 5 yrs. Compare then and watch how the ratings of the same machines change.

If the dear woman who is sheltering these strays has allergies severe enough to use medications and/or inhalers she should keep the Miele and buy the bags, maybe shop around for the best price. If she is using the above mentioned items, perhaps the saleperson did not consider the cost of bags would be an issue for her, food, vet bills, allergy meds, what's the cost of a few dustbags? Miele bags come 5 to a pack, and it is possible to buy them in generic hi-filtration by Envirocare from www.allergybags.com   20 bags and 8 pre-motor filters for either 55.00 or 69.00 (depending on which style) no tax and free shipping. Naturally the vac shop which sold it to her is not going to suggest it. From the picture, the bags look like the same material. I checked Ineedbags, allbags, and gottahavebags. allergybags has the best price.They may actually be the same manufacturer Miele has make the bags under their label. That breaks down to 2.75 or 3.50/bag. Hoover and D/D bags routinely run 9.99 for a 3pack, so the cost is very competitive.

An absolutely brilliant ad campaign for Miele would be to offer a 50.00 coupon off the price of a new Miele with a proof of adoption of a dog from a rescue organization, along with the first pack of bags free!

I'm jealous, I have always thought the Nilfisk G80 was a cool vac,

Trebor wrote:
Hi Trebor,

I signed up for CR Online a a good while back and have kept up with vac ratings.  I especially like the fact that users may now post opinions whether in line with or contrary to CR's.  I have found them to be consistent.  It likes Kenmore, I do too.  Good cleaners at nice prices.  Yes, I know of and have lived the hose issue but also discovered how to fix it without a great deal of expense.  I gave my last Kenmore can to a friend a couple of years ago.  He likes it and it is still working well.  I like and own Miele though CR usually only rates them as "good".  You can note in the responses by consumers that most folks who get them like them a lot too.  My only issue is price.  I'd recommend a Kenmore over a Miele any day if budget is a really serious concern.  That is why we have Chevrolets and Mercedes.  anyway . . .

The U Hyclean bags for the Miele S7 come in packages of only four.  If you can get a box of bags for $15.00 you've done an amazing thing.  I can get five boxes of bags for $70.00 ($3.50 instead of $4.25 when buying boxes singly). Please note that I've seen the same deal for around $15 higher.

Did you see Miele's description of the new bags?  http://www.miele.com/products/accessories.asp?cat=1&subcat=2&menu_id=6&nav=30&snav=23&tnav=32&oT=122

I'm very determined about this and am going to continue to sniff around until I find out what the bags actually cost to make.  I am not as concerned over competitive pricing as I am about fair pricing.  It basically comes down to my desire to finally know whether these babies cost two bucks a piece to make or just 25 cents.

As for the dishwasher -- as I don't own my building I can't do anything about our marginal wiring situation.  Come summer you've got no chance of keeping cool and vacuuming at the same time.  The circuit breakers kick off at the drop of a hat.  My landlord's a sweet guy but he'd rather collect money than spend it.  On my end --  the rent's "cheap" and I'm not moving. 

I wanted a Miele, same capacity, but the price was nose-bleed high (what else is new) and I opted for Bosch which cost about $500 less.  The selling point regarding the Bosch I bought was that it allegedly super heats the  water in the last rinse and in result heated dishes dry all on their own. Steam from them condenses and the water formed goes down the drain.  Wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

The purchase was made as I thought how great it would work while not overtaxing the circuitry as it does not possess the usual calrod heater  AND no heater -- less energy use.  That was all good too as you can place items made of any kind of material at the top or bottom of the machine without worry.  It washed well enough but the condensation deal was a dud.  Washloads did not fully dry.  You came back to a load of damp dishes the next morning. 

At this point you all may feel free to have a big yuk, yuk, yuk at my expense as this where the line is drawn between the consumer blinded by "science" and the practical shopper.  I could have bought a good far less expensive machine and simply opened the door after the last rinse was done and got a better result.

My interest in the Miele Slimline was due to claims of its being flood proof, having water softening capability, top spray and forced air drying.  I have seen a model by SMEG that has similar qualities at a nicer price but as it has a slightly complex system regarding spray delivery I think I'm going to pass.  The Bosh is definitley beng tossed and replaced with a less expensive, more effective machine and I'm going to be so happy.

Speaking of Nilfisk, the GS80s are back again.  I think for a brief while the household version wasn't being offered.  Relatively light and without a lot of bells and whistles -- none really come to think of it -- but very simple and thoroughly efficient machines.  I believe my plastic 90 has been discontinued.

Regarding your mention of a Miele campaign, I think it would be great for the company to in any way at least allow consumers some illusions as to its being generous.

Venson