Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

 All of this ballyhoo over a vacuum cleaner that is now all but one more chapter in history?

James Dyson is a brillant conceptual engineer, but he is not a design engineer to nearly the same degree. He designed a new concept around a vacuum cleaner. What his imitators are doing now is designing their vacuum cleaners around what is now a commonplace concept.  Mr. Dyson made vacuums that are novel, and admittedly fuctional in that they maintain their cleaning power much longer than vacuums equipped with the paper bags of approximately 20 years ago. However, by no stretch of the imagination did he build vacuum cleaners which are attractive (downright fanny ugly) nor convenient, not compared to many he had to compete against. To avoid having a height adjustment he designed a failure-prone clutch assembly which is not inexpensive to repair. (Oh ye who dibelieve, talk to the vac shops waiting on repair parts on back order from Dyson) The hose/wand is inconvenient (Actually his imitator, Amway, had the optimum solution, a lever to switch suction from floor to hose, and a short stetch hose with a crevice tool on board. The addition of a telescopic wand, dust brush, and upholstery tool on board would have allowed the operator to vacuum with the vacuum handle in one hand, and the hose/wand in the other and switch from one to the other with the flick of a toe. The Sharp bagless had this arrangement, and it is the most convenient upright to use simultaneuoslty with OBT of any that have ever been manufactured. Eureka/Lux has a few BUT, the switch from floor to above-the-floor is acheived with a dial which must be operated by hand.

The important issue to remember is that the bagless concept has now been rendered obsolete by the new bags made from 3M Filtrete paper/cloth. They have been proved in Miele, Sanitaire, Kirby and other brands to maintain nealy 100% of their initial cleaning power as they fill with dirt. The dirt in these bags is compacted as the bag fills, in the bagless machines it is fluffed and looks like more than it really is. If you don't have to change the bags as often as you would have to empty a dirt container, and if the bags are more sanitary and convenient, what are the advantages of a bagless unit, even a Dyson? Cost? It is just paper, not hide flayed from anyone's back. Does anyone track how much bathroom tissue, facial tissue, paper plates and paper towels they use annually? If not, what is all the fuss and to-do about the cost of 6 to 8 bags a year? Nothing but hype, and it is ludicrous. James Dyson you have had your 15min of fame, is that all you've got?

Bags and filters are the choke point to all vacuum cleaners.  3M controls (in theory) an entire industries choke point.  Dyson controls the choke point to his vacuums by how he engineers the many elements that comprise or aid his filters.

3M’s lists the many reasons their filter chokes and/or chokes early.   http://www.filtretevac.com/usage_tips.html#1

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
This makes for nice sounding,SOUND bites for advertising, Oh look we saved $ 8.00  A year on bags ,Why dont they tell us much the lifetime filters cost to replace once a year.

Im getting real tired of rug sucker HYPE and the con job this industry has become.

MOLE

The finer the material being filtered the faster any filter will lose its effectiveness. That includes Dyson. As the cyclone starts up and winds down, in other words when the centrifugal force is insufficient for the particles being spun to acquire sufficient mass to be spun out of the airstream, particles are deposited on the filter. The more times a Dyson is turned on and off the sooner the cyclonic action is impaired. It is quite easy to sell a Kirby in a home where a Dyson and carpet fresh is are used regularly.

There is no question that the filtrete bags sustain cleaning power much longer than the paper bags with the melt blown liner. Any slight improvement over this offered by the Dyson cyclonic action is minimal, and the user still has to take it outside to open it to dump the dirt, and even if it is held inside a garbage bag when it is emptied, a certain amount of dust inevitably escapes. The point of HEPA filtration is to AVOID contact with the collected pollutants, which no bagless does. How about disposable bagless containers, like that cheap imitation tupperware in the stores? They could be made super cheap, filter and all, just toss them away and put another one on!

Trebor wrote:

Ha ha! That thought has crossed my mind too! It makes bagged cleaners look like the sensible option after all.

Hoover UK had an upright called the 'Cyclean', which was a 'Vortex'/'Whirlwind'/'Hurricane' look-a-likey. It had the option of accepting 'Hoover' polythene bags! These bags had draw-strings, similar to the polybags in which ladies' make-up removal, cottonwool b-a-l-l-s are sometimes sold.

http://www1.dealtime.co.uk/xPF-Hoover-Hoover-CC3505-Cyclean-Twin-Hepa-Upright-Vacuum-Cleaner

(click on 'Read more' for further info.)

Trebor wrote:

There is no question that the filtrete bags sustain cleaning power much longer than the paper bags with the melt blown liner. Any slight improvement over this offered by the Dyson cyclonic action is minimal, and the user still has to take it outside to open it to dump the dirt, and even if it is held inside a garbage bag when it is emptied, a certain amount of dust inevitably escapes. The point of HEPA filtration is to AVOID contact with the collected pollutants, which no bagless does. How about disposable bagless containers, like that cheap imitation tupperware in the stores? They could be made super cheap, filter and all, just toss them away and put another one on!

Agreed that emptying bagless is not the most pleasant task.  Changing bags is no more pleasant.  Especially on the Kirby.  I can understand how a few may be bothered by the omission of dirt when emptying a bagless due to health reasons.  That same dirt is in the home prior to vacuuming and breathed daily until removed.  Use HEPA all you want but what about the dirt that is being blown around and not going into the bag.  This has to happen on front exhausted vacuums.  I can smell dust without seeing it. This is especially true when vacuuming on hard surfaces.  Hell, my Royal almost blows the curtains off the wall when it gets within 5 feet of them.

It is apparent that you are as Dyson as Carmine.  Fiund the perfect vacuum and rep[ort to us.

 

mole wrote:

My DC07 filter did not need replacing after 3 years.  Can't say that about pleated filters though.

Decicions Decisions. Does one sacrifice cleaning power to avoid a replacement filter or get the ultiimate Dyson cleaning power and buy a filter occasionally?

You are right about the sucker HYPE.  Seems to spew like dirt from those with the most to gain from bashing Dyson.

Trilobite wrote:
Oh gawd - is this forum filtering that B-word??

Trebor wrote:
If it wasn't so serious I would find it ludicrous that an independent would sell a customer something that he knew would require annual repair or maintenance costs.

M00seUK wrote:

Yes, and it is a pain in the bahookey!