Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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Carmine,

You made no mention of not one (of many) Walmart abuses I posted nor did you defend them.

You have many negative opinions and many unsubstantiated claims of Dyson...  What say you of many factual and documented Walmart abuses?  When the brain damage woman was sued relentlessly by Walmart was this an abuse or was it "just business"?  How many stockholders at any given stockholder meetings stand up and question this or any of the other Walmart abuses?  Or do they keep quite and believe "it's only business"?

Since you insisted in making a Walmart v. Dyson debate here is what the average [Walmart] Chinese worker was paid in 2002...   $.57 per hr (linked below).  Not to mention the squaller these workers live in near their employment nor their many other hardships.  Certainly Dyson paid his factory workers far more in this same year and previous years (1993-2002).  Dyson factory operators worked 4 days on 4 days off in 12 hr. shifts and were well paid (per Moose).


http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/08/art3full.pdf


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Firstly. let me say it is not a debate about these two companies at all.  The debate [to use your word above] is with you about the logic you apply to these companies.  Specifically [yet again]:  It is logically inconsistent for you to condemn Wal*Mart for outsourcing jobs to Asia and then cast praise on dyson for outsourcing jobs to south east Asia.  If it's wrong for one, it's just as wrong for the other.  Failure to understand the logic/point after repeated attempts is obtuse.  

Secondly, dyson news is far more interesting to me than Wal*Mart.  I can't recall the last time I made a purchase there.  Has to be months ago.  And I believe I bought some florescent light bulbs to replace the bad ones in the light fixtures for my garage.  So I would not be in the dark.  If only it were that easy and simple for you.

P.S.  I'm not sure you actually read the links you provide here [I have doubts] but the one about Chinese workers' compensation [40 pages] is not only dated [2002], but  I can read/find no connection/mention/reference to any American companies and businesses by name let alone Wal*Mart as you said.  Would you mind posting/excerpting the specific reference to Wal*Mart/Chinese pay data for $.57 per hour in 2002.   Thanks, DIB.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Carmine D.  

I loved the DC18 Slim, but was baffled when Dyson choose to put a stiff wiper blade under the power nozzle.  Creating an new category - lightweight, highly maneuverable category only to place MUCH drag via a wiper blade.

Which Magazine 5/2007 published the same [negative] experience (cropped from a Model2 posted image).  This so-called "wiper blade drag" is worse (harder to push) on American carpeting and was avoidable (a poor design), bottom line...  it unnecessarily hurt hurt Slim sales and/or users expectations (IMO).     DIB

DIB,

I'm interested by what you say, because I have a DC18  Slim All Floors +Allergy, and I've never found it heavy to push on carpet. In fact, it's my favourite incarnation of Dyson's steerable line yet. I think it's a great shame they dropped it from the line-up so quickly. The DC24 may be even lighter and more compact, but I prefer the roller on the Slim to the Ball. It offers all the same benefits, with the additional advantage of allowing the cleaner to have a lower profile for cleaning under furniture, etc. The DC18 is nearly twice as powerful, and offers a longer hose and better dusting tools.

I guess the sales drawback between the two systems is that the big, brightly coloured Ball immediately stands out to potential buyers and catches their attention, whereas the roller is hidden from view under the cleaner.

I love the DC18 Slim to and I too think it was dropped from the line up too quickly!   Just to pickup ont he 'Which' Report, Dyson always gets commented in Which about the length of cable on their uprights.  I see the bin capacity was mentioned to.  The only reason the bin is not bigger is due to the position of the main motor.  It is vertical on the DC18 setup!  I think this made the handle feel heavy!   The only draw backs I had about the DC18 was the brushbar\roll was not the best, lack of brush turfs although I found performance to be very good.  Like Which I would have liked to see the bin capacity be slightly bigger!

The steering on the DC18 I felt was different to the 'true' ball Dyson vacs.  I should have remained in the lineup, you got the same power\performance as the bigger\heavy Dyson Upright be in a lighter slimmer package!  Bring back the DC18 and the DC03! 

DC18

I was never keen on the DC03's performance (poor brush-roll, only 90aw), although it holds the distinction of being the only Dyson upright so far to be able to lie flat for cleaning under furniture. Nice quiet, lightweight cleaners, though, and very pleasant to use.

If there's one thing I'd like to see Dyson working on, it's their brush-rolls. I like the ones in the DC07 and DC14 Origin models - round cross-section, and stiffer bristles than the clutch-control models. I find they do a far better job of cleaning than the cork-screw version. 

Model2 wrote: ... That's been my view too and for some time.

re: blade drag
 I do not own a DC18 and only experimented with one at my home for a little while. The blade simply does what it is designed to do, that is... scrape. On my Berber carpet it was noticeable and measurable. With the vacuum running and with the blade removed the vacuum measured about 1/2 of a pound easier to push/pull (if I remember correctly). In my opinion this COULD OF been easily avoided (engineered better) and when Which Magazine announces - the Slim feels "heavy"  ...is this the kind of publicity Dyson wants from a [powerful and popular] consumer magazine?

 I believe the Slim is Dyson's most creative, only because I have never seen anything that predates/is similar to this ball set up. I have seen ball canisters in the patent office and ball toys and Sir James said the Ball Barrow was a DC15 inspiration, etc., but I've never seen a ball/Slim set up before I learned of the DC18.  I was terribly disappointed with the build on the DC21 - great idea, poor execution.  I need to ice my wrist after vacuuming.  Our housekeeper hates my DC21 and reminds me of it every time I pull it out.   :)

DIB

Model2 wrote:

I totally agree with you Model2.  Yes the performance of the DC03 was not brilliant, airwatts\suction was poor!  I think it was one of the best earlier Dyson's Uprights to offer light weight, slim, brush bar on/off clutch and being able to lie flat  (even hang up on a wall for storage!) and have 2 HEPA Filters as standard!  Using some of Dyson's latest technology now the DC03 could be a very good model for Dyson!

You have one thing in common with me with regards to the Dyson's Upright Vaccums, that is the brush bar\roll!  It's something I've been wondering for a few years now and wish they would improve on it!!   The DC01 had a decent brush bar\roll, triple helix of bristles performance was good.  Never tried the DC04\DC07 and DC14 standard (clutchless) models that have the standard brush bar\roll like the DC01!  Sounds like they do a better job, that does not surprise me though!   I'm hoping the DC27 has a simular setup! 

Another thing I don't understand with Dyson is why they are so sparing with the bristles on their brush bar\rolls, so spaced out, unlike the standard clutchless models there are slightly fuller I believe!  This can't help with pickup performance!   The DC25 brush bar\roll is very good as I've tried one but could still be improved.

DC18

DysonInventsBig wrote:

With the DC24 and DC25, the blade remains, but it's made of a thinner material. Also, rather than one solid strip, it's sliced into little tabs, so it offers less resistance whilst performing the same function. Perhaps the blade on the DC18 could be similarly modified to improve performance? That said, I don't fancy taking a craft-knife to it when I don't really find it to cause a problem in the first place!

The first true steerable cleaners were the Air-Way uprights of the 1920s (of which the DC18 is VERY strongly reminiscent; I'd be shocked if the designers hadn't had them in mind when they created it!), and the Apex Model 120/Vactric Airflo of the mid-1930s. Vactric charmingly called the feature the 'Witchway Handle'! From 1908 - 1922, Hoover offered models which had ordinary front wheels and rear swivel-castors, all running on ball-bearings, which achieved a similar effect. So it's not really a new idea, it's just repackaged for the new century. 'Putting a new spin on an old idea'!

Model2 wrote:

http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/33916-0-1.html

Hello Model2:

I posted a link to another thread on this site.  Your post above caught my attention WRT another topic on this site for antique vacuums.  I thought perhaps you may know the answer to a question that Venson and I are mulling over regarding the production and sales of Westinghouse uprights in the UK prior to and during WW11.  If you peruse the thread quickly, you'll get the jist of our dilemma.  We could not decide/determine with certainty whether the pictured metal Westinghouse upright [circa 1930's] is UK made or imported from the USA.  What do think/say?

BTW, while I remotely see a connection to the early Air Way stick uprights [late 20's/early 30's] to the concept of steering [wheels on the A-W straight suction nozzle head while other uprights of the day were using revolving brushes], I would tend more to compare dyson's ball/slim to the GE upright of the early 60's with the oblong wheel.  As you may know, the GE upright was a consumer dud despite its worthiness as a lightweight upright.  I can't speak to the Apex//HOOVER you cite which in the USA [especially HOOVER] used stationary wheels, usually of the same size for the years you say, on stationary axles for both front and rear.  

Carmine D.