Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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Hello DIB:

You're very smart.  You continue to take Wal*Mart to task by outsourcing to Chinese/Asian suppliers w/o caring that  dyson did the same by moving production from the UK to South east Asia [Malaysia].  With a major difference being that Wal*Mart's business motives are to pass the lower prices onto its shoppers.  

 Dyson on the other hand raised its vacuum prices after the move to Malaysia, despite lower labor costs and manufacturing costs.  In fact, Wal*Mart and dyson ended their business relationship in 2005 after W*M stores advertised lower DC07 dyson prices: $319 vice $359.  A $40 savings which benefitted dyson vacuum buyers. 

W*M shops the best suppliers in order to get the best prices for its shoppers.   Dyson shopped for the best suppliers [Malaysia] to get the best prices/profits for dyson by charging higher prices to dyson customers.  If one condemns the effects of W*M's actions on the greater social and economic good, then what should be said about dyson?

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Unfortunately, you omit Dyson’s pro-Britain/pro-British worker, $100m investment in his factory.  Nor do you tell the story of Parliaments failure to keep British manufacturing British.  Some in Parliament blamed their own government for failing their people and not Dyson, fact.  When Tony Blair responded, he too did not blame Dyson.

Dyson has replaced these 450 factory workers with new hires and spends $100 researching future products.  You support Red-Hoover all the while they eliminate American jobs with no new hires (thus far, it is not reported or can be found).  Nor have I read anywhere where they invest in our country or it’s people.

I applaud Dyson for not falling into the trap of building product with the poor to lower-middle class as its base customer (*Walmarts base customer).  Often times these folks feel entitled to a higher standard of living all the while they have not put in the work, investment, and/or sincerely gotten on their knees and asked for the answer.  Since some in my family and some friends have a background it poverty and/or suffering and/or going against the odds only to ultimately win, I can comment and have a view.

DIB

*pre-economy melt down.

DIB:

Like I said, you're very smart.  You spin over dyson's move to Malaysia but condemn Wal*mart for its Chinese suppliers.   Wal*Mart employs over 1.5 million Americans.  By comparison, a considerably greater investment  by Wal*Mart in America//Americans than dyson in the UK.  Surely by your standard, W*M then is just as worthy of the same praise as given you for dyson if  the reasons are investments in people/country.  W*M is the largest company in the world.  It contributes huge tax revenues every year to US local, state and Federal governments' coffers. These tax collections go to the most needy in the US in the form of financial assistance and free services.  During Hurricane Katrina in August 2005, Wal*Mart's trucks were the first to arrive on the natural disaster scenes with food, water, medicine and supplies for the victims.  Long before FEMA. 

The average Wal*Mart shopper earns over $60,000 yearly, up from $40,000.  Wal*Mart now claims a customer base with yearly incomes from low to high.    You are not only "elitist" to impugn the Wal*Mart shoppers as poor with low/middle class incomes, but you are also wrong!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

I got my poor to lower-middle class info from someone who's friend sits/sat on the Walmart board.  Unlike you, I do not make this stuff up. :) Walmart suits proudly proclaim in videotaped stockholder meetings what a wonderful service they provide and examples of how folks can have 2 extra weeks of food in their cupboards.  They fail to mention how many they destroy to get this 2 weeks of food.  Surely if legal, Walmart would gladly doze my home so it could then be sold as scrap to help lower their costs and the timber can be used to warm their needy.  Sorry Carmine, profit taking, selfish group of men and women are not going to redefine what is good.  Nor are they nearly as righteous as you would allow yourself to believe.

Dyson bellied up with $100m to open a factory and to keep Britons working, bottom line is, he tried.  I bet there is not a single document anywhere outlining Walmart trying to save manufacturing in America and it’s countless number of jobs (directly/indirectly).


DIB

Hello DIB:

I suspect your third party hearsay data is dated.  The latest annual income of Wal*Mart shoppers [over $60,000] is based on survey data collected by the retail industry over the last months of 2008.  It's one of the only positive notes for the retail industry in 2008.  Which will go down as one of the worst in over 30 years.   

If you think about it, it's intuitively logical and sensible.  If Wal*Mart were selling to poor and lower middle income shoppers exclusively, it would not be the only retailer to have sales increases in November and December 2008 of more than 3 percent.  While all its big box retail competitors [save COSTCO whose shoppers' annual income is about $70,000] reported decreases/losses in sales year over year.   Poor to lower middle income consumers are hardest hit by bad economic times and rising gas prices.  And their proportionate share of spending is forced to decrease compared to middle and higher income wage earners.  The increases in W*M sales vice all other retailers indicate that higher wage earners are increasingly shopping and buying at W*M stores.  It's called "trading down" by consumers in their shopping preferences for retail stores.  No doubt the reason APPLE iphones are now for sale at all W*M stores and have been just since December 28, 2008.  APPLE projects that the sales of the iPhones at W*M stores alone in 2009 will increase its revenues by 48 percent.  Who buys these devices?  Poor and low income people?

As I said DIB, you're smart.  But, my friend spinning dyson's move to Malaysia as a gain for the UK and condemning Wal*Mart's as a loss for the US is a logical contradiction.  W*M has clearly eliminated manufacturing jobs in the USA by outsourcing to Chinese suppliers.  As dyson eliminated manufacturing jobs in the UK by moving to Malaysia.   I would argue, convincingly, that if not for Wal*Mart, many of its 1.5 million US retail employees would be unemployed now and probably for the distant future.  Similarly city, state and Federal tax coffers would be emptied/drained for the lack of W*M's real estate, payroll, sales and income tax payments.  

Where one stands, depends on where one sits!  The US has gone from a manufacturing driven economy to a retail base economy.  Thanks in large part to W*M.  Is that a net social and economic good or evil?  And where does dsyon figure into W*M for the future?

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Why are you spending time defending this $375b “benevolent” giant.  Instead why not post links here to the many hard hitting interviews (video or otherwise) asked of the Walmart suits.  Many Americans are angry with Walmart, I along with them would like to hear explanations to the many social complaints that have been leveled at them and their company.  Surely these benevolent suits are proud of their conduct and most assuredly they have nothing to hide.


DIB

Hello DIB:

I  have friends and family members who work for W*M and love their jobs.  Just as you probably know persons who work for dyson and love their jobs.  Why attack one company [W*M] for outsourcing and praise the other [dyson] for the same?  If outsourcing is a social/economic evil when W*M does it, then it is the same when dyson/any other company does it.  Failure for you to understand/agree with this after several attempts at trying is obtuse.

I'd much rather discuss the latest news on the W*M and dyson business relationship but despite several opportunities you have not said.  You obviously know something about it and it is affecting your opinions of W*M now here.   Would you like to add something about the latest W*M and dyson turn of business events?  Or continue to spew your opinions about how bad W*M outsourcing is for the US and how great it is for dyson and the UK?  BTW, how many manufacturing jobs are lost in the USA by W*M selling iPhones in W*M stores?  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Your “Dyson is Walmart-like” was a new challenge for me.  Thanks.

From 1993 to [early] 2002 James Dyson was spending his own money investing in [his] British factories, hiring and employing Britons, and choosing this over the far cheaper and more profitable route of using China or otherwise...  during this same time-frame, just how many American factories did Walmart open/help their suppliers open?  How many American factories did they shut down (directly or indirectly)?

I’ve been doing some research on this monster sized whore called Walmart, or more accurately... the whores who run it along with their lieutenants.

Are your Walmart friends going to join in on the $640m (and growing?) Walmart abuse (abuse their employees) settlement?  Or were they part of upper management that took part of screwing their employees?  Are your friends on any sort of Welfare or alike?  After all the Walton’s are only worth the infinitesimal amount of $100b, so it is an absolute must that the Walmart associates get paid just a little bit above dirt.  After all they are payed in dirt or not paid at all...  or so the many class actions suits across our country says so.  Maybe if they cannot jump in on this class action, perhaps some of the other class actions against Walmart could pay (probably to late, but I wanted to establish this is not the first time the whores in suits screwed their employees and got caught).


DIB

P.S.   Did you read where Adidas has sued Walmart 3 different times in 13 years over Walmart’s abuse (oops) I should say - the better con is calling it...  “efficiency and bringing value to our customers”. The Walmart suits again got caught stealing Adidas’ trademarked property (aka livelihood)?  Walmart shows no favorites...  they’ll screw anyone.

Dyson gets a nice mention in the Wall Street Journal.

online.wsj.com/article/SB123144483005365353.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

CarmineD wrote:

Hello DIB:

Sounds like you missed my post above to Venson.    

For every supposed negative item you attribute to Wal*Mart, I'll find at least one positive [instituting product standards on Chinese toy suppliers before the 2008 Holiday sales season].  Dare I mention the social/economic good that W*M does by its expansions internationally into Japan, Chile, Mexico, Brazil, India etc?  Or..... does it only count as a net good when dyson does it?

My point to you is simple.  It's logically inconsistent to condemn W*M for outsourcing and cast praise on dyson for it.  Malaysia [dyson] is southeast Asia.  China [W*M] is Asia.  HELLO!  If one doesn't understand/agree after several attempts, the word challenge comes to mind but more correctly obtuse.

Carmine D.