Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

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Hi DIB:

Glad to hear you found the perfect niche for a 3 year old, discountinued, discounted DC15 dyson ball: The garage.   I find irony in this.  Why?  Garages are for autos which share the quintessential feature that you like to talk up so much about all dyson ball models: Steerability! 

Carmine D.

Hello DIB:

I believe Rainbow has been using a clear bin for a very long time - long before Dyson.  It is ridiculous to argue about a clear dirt container.  Clear containers have been used for food containers and other applications for years.  Who knows where James Dyson "stole" the idea for a clear container originated - it's irrelevant.  

DIB replies:   Instead of  "believing", why not belly up with some photos. I'm no collector but you are, as your buddies are too, it should be easy to locate this vacuum that predates Dyson's clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. To suggest food containers (or alike) could be a source that Dyson "stole" is lame. - This is an excuse to print "Dyson" and "stole" in the same line.  The only thing ridiculous is the amount of money Dyson made from being smart and smarter than every manufacturer on the planet when he included his clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. And it is ridiculously wild to see how widely and globally this bin was eventually adapted and now is a standard.  Globally, vacuum manufacturers are running Dyson-like bins and not running jam jars.

 Re: irrelevant. Carmen made a claim Dyson was a niche product and that he predicted it back in 2002. I expounded on the definition of niche. Carmen responded. And you say it's irrelevant. I guess we should all stop, go back, ponder and relive your boomerang Bissell stick post.  Certainly there is much revelant there and is more revelvant than talking of the global adoption of Dyson success.

James Dyson is trained as a graphics artist.  He accomplished 2 things - the no loss of suction dirt collection container, and he made a vacuum that has a unique trendy look.  His vacuums don't clean any better than other vacuums, because of design flaws unrelated to constant air flow.  When Dyson finds a cure for cancer, artificial limbs, an artificial heart/lungs, or cure for some other disease, perhaps the rest of us will hoist him up on your pedestal. 

DIB replies:   Look, many (not all) vacuum collectors typically get bent out of shape over Dyson's success. I say they're envious, what say you?

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

 You write: "Dyson was a niche product".   A Freudian slip/prophesy? 

Niche product is nice.  Not derogatory as you and some other dyson campers like to infer.  No umbrage should be taken.   Several successful and storied vacuum brands are niches:  Filter Queen, Rainbow, and Kirby just to mention a few.  Of course, unlike your brand, these brands have been in business for many years and have weathered good and bad economic times and still.   At least so far.  A prerequisite for rightfully and correctly claiming success.  But things change as we witnessed with several of the financial icons on Wall Street.  Still as you, I would presume, would not want to be counted out/laid to rest while still having a pulse and heart beat, even if ever so faint/shallow, so it is true too, I believe, with your fave brand. 

Carmine D.

There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.

M00seUK wrote:
Moose,
There is much more detail on the US patent application. You might want to check it out. One would imagine Dyson applying his small motor technology (the DDM) in appliances to reduce the size or use its speed gains (typically), but I do not see the DDM and controller with its higher costs inside this box. Dyson also mentions keeping costs down on this appliance.

I am not familiar with these dispensers. Can you link a couple to this thread so I can take a look?

 Thanks,
 DIB

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=dyson.AS.&OS=an/dyson&RS=AN/dyson

CarmineD wrote:
  Hello Carmine,

 In typical fashion you twist my words. Did I say my DC15 has been relegated to the garage? The DC15 serves double duty both in my garage and home. I am beating on it deliberately. This way I can say honestly these things are bulletproof and can run well past its five-year warranty (projectied based on what I've seen thus far). It is going on 4 years old.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Thanks - I can't see any more written detail on the US patent doc and the images are not showing for me, so I can't really add anything.

I'm of the presumption that Dyson are of the thinking "What appliances use motors that might benefit a more efficient motor part?". I'm not at all familiar with drinks dispensers, but presumably you need a motor to create air pressure and also grind / mix ingredients. If a Dyson digital motor *was* to be used, it would like be a smaller than the version used on the Airblade drier. As you say, there might not be any benefit at all and they would simply use one off the shelf.

So, what we're looking at is :-

• Small, self-contained profile
• Grinder / milk foamier optional
• 1-2 selectable hoppers for coffee / coco ingredients
• Nozzle and cup shelf retract flush when not required

This is the type of product I'm thinking of:-

http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/290734/JURA-IMPRESSA-Z5

That is the top of the range model from this retailer, at 1595 GBP. An entry level version sells for 595 GBP.

Certainly, they're getting ever popular, the margins are there and there's efficiencies to be made in terms of size.

There's also market share potential in the commercial space. The café near my office is pushed for working space, with fair-sized espresso machine taking up room. At my local independent pub, coffee is made from a small machine with pre-prepared espresso 'capsules'. Again, they're pushed for space, but a machine of the design proposed by Dyson might work well.

Hi,

Miele and, I believe, Bosch have it on the market in "capsule" and built-in form. However, the prices make my good old Krups bean grinder and Bodum coffee maker look awful good to me

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=30&menu_id=22&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=96&oT=188

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=28&menu_id=9&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=93&oT=187

Venson

Hello DIB:

Sorry to misunderstand and misquote.  So it would appear if the discounted, 4 year old dyson DC15 ball is doing double duty, a new dyson ball model exclusively for household use is out of the question?  I really thought with all honesty and good intentions that you "relegated" the DC15 to the garage so you could replace it with a new dyson in your home.  Especially with the way you rave non-stop about the ball and steerability.  I envisioned you upgrading the ball models with each new dyson entrant.  As a dyson devotee like you would most likely want to do.  I mistook your praise here for putting your money where your words are.  My apologies. 

Carmine

M00seUK wrote:
Moose,

 If you go to the bottom of the front page of the Dyson application, you will see a lengthy description. As you can see/experience firsthand the United States government in my opinion has made searching patents difficult or more difficult than need be. Patent images they are in the TIFF format. Assuming you’re using a Macintosh I provided a free tiff viewer plug-in link below.

 You’re right, the dispenser could be both commercial and residential. I did not read but just a few paragraphs on the patent, I did see one of the major components is the ability to retract or telescope the dispenser nozzle back into the appliance itself which is space-saving (per the Dyson patent app.)

DIB

www.acordex.com/browseProd/VTplugin.html