Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I checked with Eureka, no longer available, checked with a few distributors, no generic bags available either. These fit the ancient 900 series models (rotomatic) Are there any substitutes a guy could use instead??

Hi Vernon,

Check here --http://www.svcvacuum.com/eureka/eureka_k_vacuum_bag.htm

Please be advised that I am not affiliated or familiar with this company.  You must satisfy yourself as to their prices and reliablity.  Also . . .

The original wide-mouth disposable bags for that machine had about a half-inch paper collar stitched on.  If you can't find something to fit the width then see if you can find a generic bag for the GE swivel top canister.  I can't guarantee a perfect fit you can fit the bag into the permanent bag, fold the excess over the rubber sealing ring and then fit the permanent bag and the excess into the vacuum.

Hope that helps,

Venson

Venson,

Thanks for the SVC link, yes, they have them, but they told me that they custom make the bag.  Don't know how they do this, but would be interesting to see.

In regards to the GE replacement bags, already tried it, not quite wide enough.  Thought it was a good idea too.

Out of all the dealers and wholesalers I've been told to contact, only SVC Vacuum was able to help!

Vernon

Hello Vernon,

I realize that your looking for type K eureka bags,if you check out old vacuum shops I would say the east coast U.S.A. is more than likely your best shot.

Doesnt this machine have the cloth bag in it?,you can use that for a template, I'm surprized that you cant find these anywhere,it was a very popular bag,

Might want to check E-BAY out .

Good luck

mole

mole wrote:

Hello Gents:

MOLE, yes the paper bag fits inside a cloth permanent bag.  What sets this paper insert apart from others of the era [like the GE Cann] is the thin cardboard rim stitched and glued to the top of the paper bag.  It allows the paper bag to sit tightly inside the groove on the top of the rubber gasket on the cloth bag rim that fits in the vacuum.  Not surprised these are very hard to find and special orders.  Wonderful straight suction vacuum, very quiet, with a very clean exhaust air for its old age.  Lamb motor if I remember correctly.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

Elaborate is the wrong word I guess, but early GE swivel-tops employed a somewhat dome-shaped plastic collar inside. You had to fit a portion of the top of the wide mouth disposable bag through it after fitting the lower portion of the paper bag into the permanent cloth bag and then flatten that against the collar before clamping the cover on.  The collar was important due to the design of the machine.  The bottom of the collar allowed for a seal against the rubber ring on the permanent bag as it held the folded over part against a second rubber seal where air entered from the swivel top.  Later GE swivel-top canisters dumped the collar and the puter cover design but the disposable bag style did not change and bag changing remained a little involved.  GE always got points off because of this by way of CR.

As I recall, authentic GE swivel top bags were always pink.  Do you think they did that to please the ladies?

Venson

Hello Venson:

You have excellent knowledge of the GE canns, the cloth bag/paper bag insert with collar.  Huge dirt capacity for a cann.  I used a GE swivel with only cloth bag [and collar] for my under the bench vacuum for many years.  Why?  Good as both a suction cleaner/blower.  I always left the exhaust cover off the vacuum, so I could easily attach the hose for suction/blowing depending on the circumstances.

Carmine D.

Hello Vernon.  Did the SVC bag work out?  I just got a beautiful yellow Eureka Roto-Matic that I am restoring.  The original owner was using the paper bag by itself without the cloth bag.  Did Eureka intend that?  I would think it would leak like a sieve since only the cloth bag has the rubber seal.  I need to clean the cloth bag.  Can it be handwashed?

This is a beautifully styled machine!  I am really going to enjoy it.

Thanks!

Michael

kellyfrey wrote:

Hi Micahel,

Butting in here . . .

Eureka canisters of that type were never intended to be used without the cloth bag.  Disposable bags were more to serve as a liner for the wide-mouth cloth bag.  The cloth bag, first of all, heightened filtering potential and, secondly, without the rubber seal that was around the top of the permanent bag it's doubtful that the machine put out full suction.

Don't wash the cloth bag.  Clean your cloth bag by either taking it outside, turning it inside out and going over it with a whisk broom or brush OR -- more convenient -- use another vacuum to clean the bag.

I remember the Eureka Golden Crowns well.  Enjoy.

Venson

Thanks Venson!  I figured as much.  Is there a particular reason you advise against handwashing the cloth bag?  There are some rust stains from the top of the motor housing on it and I was going to use fresh lemon juice and salt to get them out...then handwash.  The bag doesn't smell particularly fresh either.  I'm relatively sure the bag is made of cotton, so I would think one gentle handwashing would not hurt it.

Michael

It is fine if you handwash the cloth bag.  Just make sure that it is not ready to fall apart on you.  Vacuum collectors do not like to wash bags, because they may loose their color or decals may fall off.  This bag is different.  There are no decals, because it is just a secondary filter.  The main filter is the paper bag.  Since this filter is made of cloth, it will pickup and hold everything.  Sweeping and vacuuming will not remove oils, odors and all of the dirt.  I have cleaned many a cloth inner bag w/o any problems when handled w/care.   Just air dry.

Thanks Mike!

Michael

Mike_W wrote:

Sorry to disagree with you on this Mike, but it's not 'fine,' IMHO.   Vacuum and brush?  Most definitely.  But NEVER EVER use water on a cloth bag of this era, especially if you want to reuse the cloth bag in the vacuum for operational purposes.  Water degrades the porous nature of the cloth bag [and performance] much as filling to capacity with dirt/dust and not dumping.  The bag cloth is made to allow the fibers to give the optimum air filtration and dirt/dust containment.  Washing, even by hand, compromises the filtration performance.  Adding a detergent to the water, even mild, makes the cloth bag fibers even worse. 

Carmine D.

Hi,

During the 1950s and into the 1960s, in regard to many canisters that used both disposable and cloth bags, disposable bags were more a convenience than a "must".  As for filtration, the larger part of GE's, Eureka's, Royal and crew's disposable dust bags were not of great substance. A couple of niche brands were big on touting air quality but Eureka was not among them.  The thin "liners" provided eliminated the larger part of the work in having to repeatedly shake out a cloth bag until it was clean and unclogged.  

The heavvyweight bags used singularly appeared mainly in Electrolux and Air-Way.  Yet even Electrolux and Air-Way, both noted for their especially unique disposable bags, offered cloth bags as an alternative for those who opted for thrift through use of a permanent dust bag.  I thought the like was a waste but knew more than one person who'd acquired them.

Also, though it may take a little time to look, I think I can dredge up a few old vacuum user manuals as well as housekeeping guides of that of that era that did not recommend washing cloth dust bags.  The usual rule was to buy a replacement cloth bag if the original had gotten a little ratty.

As for odors, try a little dry borax or a tadsworth of moth crystals.

Venson

Though from way back in the day, here's a major manufacturer's, not a collector's, advice regarding bag care ---

http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/00ShowCollectionGETD.cgi?photoshow=825-07.jpg&dir=/OWNERS_MANUALS/Hoover%20825

Venson

Hello Venson:

Thanks for taking the extra time and effort and posting the HOOVER bag care instructions.  This model appears to be one of the early 700 series, [without the headlight which came later].  Usually called the Greater HOOVER.  I say the greatest of the great.  Probably early 1930's. 

Of note, HOOVER suggests emptying the bag after each use.  And says to ensure that a "servant" is told to follow these instructions.  If I recall correctly, the engraved logo on the top of the motor hood cover of the 700 series shows a man with the words "servant to the people." 

Of note too, HOOVER refers to its "agitator."  A topic of another thread. 

Also of note, HOOVER suggests placing "sand," "salt" and/or another "granular substance" [read old coffee grinds] on the carpet in front of the vacuum to determine if the agitator is working correctly.   How?  By the substances vibrating on the carpet.  A topic of another thread.

Have to love those old time black and white graphics. 

Carmine D.

Y ou know you got to love it, i mean by seeing and reading about where this industry has come from and where its going.

All the PLAYERS had their own style and identity,you could tell one brand from another [the craftmenship was outstanding] companies acually took pride in their workmanship, they really thought things through, people acually enjoyed going to work each day,

Maybe they were really the good old days...........................

MOLE

Venson wrote:
Ah, so that is where you got your info for Michael.  Notice nowhere did it say  "Do Not Wash the Bag".  HOOVER, and others, wanted to make maintenance of their machines easy.  Users would not wash their bag nor would they sweep it out.  Who wants to clean their shake out vacuum bag.  Hey, plenty of vacuum makers told people to empty their bags after every use.  But did they do that? No.  What do they do if the bag needed to be cleaned?  They would  take it to the vac shop and it would be hooked up to a machine that brushes it for them.

Hand washing a cloth bag on the Eureka Rotomatic/Super Rotomatic canister would probably only be done once or twice in its lifetime.  There is no reason to wash it on a monthly basis.  The above poster, Michael, is a collector.  He wants to make his newly acquired machine more presentable.  The handwashing will not hurt the bag if he has examined it before he washes.

You will be hardpressed to find any old manuals that state, "Do Not Wash".  Today it is different, because shake-out bags are made differently.  I know that for years, Eureka/Sanitaire always says, "DO NOT WASH OR DRYCLEAN".  I also know that today, there are some that say it is fine to wash.  Take a look at Air Storm.

To sum things up, it is fine to wash the outer bag of a canister like the Eureka Rotomatic/Super Rotomatic.  As a collector, Michael, you have to examine it first and make sure it will hold up to a washing.  If it is hard and brittle, it ain't going to make it. 

CarmineD wrote: It is fine if you disagree w/me.  I think you need to explain more how water is going to degrade the cloth vacuum bag of this Eureka.  There are actually other factors that degrade cloth and it is not water and detergent.  The sun is one of them.  Another is bleach.  How about agitation and friction.  If the Eureka bag is so old and frail, then I think the agitation and friction, from a broom, will be damaging also.

If you're worried about possible chemical degradation of the bag material, and the bag fabric is still in good condition, hand wash it with Woolite in warm water, I've done so with good results.  Woolite has a reputation for being extremely gentle (yet still sudsy) and is probably the only chemical I'd use on a cloth bag at this point.  Be extremely gentle and you should have no problems with wear.  As Mike mentioned above it's not a good idea to wash any bags silk-screened or printed logos, there is a very good chance that even the gentlest hand-washing will fade or remove the logo entirely.

Also, never machine-wash cloth bags (especially not vintage; you could probably get away with it on a new bag, but it would cause additional wear), or use fabric softener.  As a waxy substance, it *will* clog the fibers and the bag will not be as porous as it once was.

-MH

Mike_W wrote:

Hello Mike:

I defer to your superior knowledge and experience over the collective vacuum industry guidance and teaching of the past. 

But please to eliminate any doubt I might harbor that you may be wrong, share the tests/measures you use/perform before and after bag washing to make your above statement. And even to conclude and recommend that hand washing these old cloths is just fine and poses no degradation/risks to vacuum performance and operation.  

Feel free to cite here any other authoritative source on the matter to validate your opinion.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

Hello Mike:

Water causes the pores to open up.  Guess what happens then?  Small holes!    And the small holes get larger.  I'm sure you/others noticed cloth bags with holes.  Even cloth bags that appear vibrant with alot of useful life remaining.  Whenever I saw a good looking cloth bag with some pin holes, I'd ask the user:  Did you ever use water to clean.  I always knew the answer.

Carmine D. 

Mike_W wrote:

Silly and absurd of you Mike to use this as an argument to support your view?  Why?  I can argue in the reverse and say you can't show us a vacuum maker who said you can use water to clean the old cloths. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

MH:

I got a rude awakening recently.  Why?  I read the water quality report issued by my local Nevada authorities on the composition of the substances naturally occuring and/or added in our drinking water and their quantities. 

Chlorine [I think this is a substance that qualifies as a bleach which Mike says deteriorates bag cloth] is one of the many chemicals that is added to Nevada water to control and inhibit the natural occurrance of microbes.  BTW, Webster defines chlorine as a poisonous gas used to purify water and to make bleaching chemicals and powder.

In any event, there is no doubt why I don't need to be told: Don't Use Water.  I don't drink it from the tap/filter.  I bathe/swim in it only.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Silly me  I now know why after a years washing I get holes in my socks.

Oddly all that chlorine in the water does not bleach white clothes.  I can't understand why additional bleach is needed to achive proper results since it is already in the water.

After pondering a while your argument doesn't hold water.  I suppose your argument has been soaking in the bleach too long.

Mike_W wrote:

Howdy Mike,

No, that's not where I get my information.  It was the first available example.  There are a number of home care books I read during those days that didn't promote the idea of washing vacuum bags either.  The feeling being that many were chemically treated or made in a fashion that washing in water might undo .   And, in answer to your question -- nowhere did it say "Wash"?  The argument works both ways.  To my mind, if a manufacturer specifically gives instruction to shake out or brush off a cloth bag and does not make mention of washing -- you don't wash it.  It's a common sense call.

Who wants to clean their shake-out vacuum bag?  Obviously people who wanted to keep the vacuum.  You are also talking of a time when vacuums were expected to last.  Most people were aware that if you wanted something around for a while, you took care of it.  The task wasn't pleasant but neither was diaper washing -- also a common practice at the time.

Having lived during the time when tank-type and canister vacuums with cloth bags were bountiful and having used them, the usual idea was to shake out the bag well to keep the vacuum running at its best.  No, most folks did not empty their vacuums after every use.  But, when you did, you laid newspaper on the floor, placed the open end of bag on it and held down the ring and shook out the bag.  You got more paper or moved the bag to a new spot on the paper and shook it out again.  This process was repeated until, if not any all, at least a minimal amount of dust appeared on the paper when you lifted the bag away.  And the larger part of vacuums I saw, many purchased before I was born,  fared well enough.  This was also the usual method for wide-mouthed Hoover upright bags.  As well, I actually knew someone who would set her Hoover upright out on her back steps when she thought the bag needed a good cleaning. She'd undo the clip at the top and lay the still atttached bag flat, then turn the vacuum on and pat the bag until it was blown clean.  Canisters and tanks could also be set outside and the hose, attached to the blower port could be use to blow their dust bags clean as well.

In any event, we're spared all that now as everything is disposable -- including the vacuum cleaner.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Common sense is very uncommon. 

Carmine D.

Hello Tennessee HARDSELL:

You let me down.  I thought for sure you [of all persons] would call me on my coffee drinking!  You're losing your touch.

BTW, did you ever filter your morning brewed coffee using your socks?  Even after washing in water?

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

You, like me, remember these days well.  Generally, the woman of the house set aside one day a week for a specific household chore.  Like washing clothes, by hand, on Monday.  Baking bread/desserts on Tuesday.  Oven cleaning on Wednesday.  Housecleaning on Thursday.  Grocery shopping which included a visit to the butcher on Friday, and so on.  Vacuuming was not a daily task.  Emptying the bag after each use was not as uncommon as it may sound in today's terms. 

My grandmother, her soul rest in peace, had a straight suction Eureka upright from 1915 with all the attachments.  When she instructed the family members to vacuum, it always included a PS: Don't forget to empty the bag.  And she demonstrated the instructions you so eloquently cited/sited.  Tho, she was no higher than 5 foot, all obeyed.  I recently donated that vacuum away, still in original working condition with the same cloth bag [never washed even by hand].  I was forced several years back to replace the cord.  The inner wiring insulation dried out.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Smart person.  Some vacuum repairers used a similar method to undue dust packs in the Convertible HOOVER-s.  A quick and dirty way to clear blockages in the bag tube which inevitably occurred due to gravity.  Remove the paper, turn the vacuum away, turn on and run a clothes hanger through the tube.  Then reinstall a new bag and carry on.  [Of course there was usually a dust pack in the motor housing but this needed disassembly to correct.]

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Wow, that's a new one for me.  Did the owner only change the bag every leap year for the blockage to develop?

Best,

Venson

Very interesting.  First we had vacuums that could clog frequently but were always easy to clear blockages from thanks to the direct dirt path, now we have vacuums that (either with a system of cyclones or enhanced filtering material in the bags) clog less frequently but (thanks to complicated internal ducting, etc.) are virtually impossible to unclog in the event of one without major disassembly.  Seems we've taken a step backwards in some ways.

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

Hiya MH,

I've always maintained that design means everything.  Complex designs that hinder easy repair or replacement mean a trip back to the shop and trips back to the shop seem to be what the "service contract" was invented for.  Hate to be cynical but I don't think in future we'll see improvement. 

I recall Shetland Lewyt having put out a series of "modular" vacuums in the past.  It pitched claims of easy repair and maintenace because the cleaners were supposedly designed  to allow easy access to motor units, filters, etc., but the series didn't last long.  I don't whether that was because vacuums failed to live up to the claims or because there wasn't much consumer interest.

Some of Nilfisk's vacuums have similar qualities and parts are just a phone call away but they're pricey.  Sebo claims easy disassembly for maintenance in regard to its uprights.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Based on experience, some vacuum users change bags once in a blue moon. 

With the old fashioned HOOVER Convertible design, the dirt in the bottom fill bag would fall down into the bag tube/bellows after the vacuum was turned off and stored.  This was especially the case if boot leg paper bags were used.  Over time a huge dust pack [dirt clog] would build up in the bag tube/bellows [even motor housing] until the vacuum had no suction.  In fact, dirt would shoot out of the vacuum.  A condition called 'negative suction.'   The above technique, that your friend wisely used too for her cloth bag, was a quick and dirty fix until the vacuum could be disassembled and repaired correctly.

Oftentimes, the dust pack built up so much in the fan housing, that the motor would not run.  Just hum.  Then, the disassembly was a must to repair correctly.

HOOVER, after many years of the Convertible run, made a top fill paper [like the old fashioned F&G bags].  This was also available to retro fit on the bottom fill Convertibles.  This cured the problem for the most part.

Carmine D.

Michael,

No I haven't tried the bags from SVC yet.

Sorry for not responding sooner!

Vernon