Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I knew that Vax UK (which we all know is now part of the TTI conglomerate) had been rebadging Hoover Mach series dual-cyclone uprights, however, paying a visit to their site yesterday I noticed that the design has been slightly modified, for the better I have to say.  Check out the familiar-looking shroud in the bin that was taken directly from the Dirt Devil Spinnergy.  You could say Hoover has invented the Fantom, let's hope that Hoover is just as successful

While I don't think the Hoover Fusion/Maytag Legacy/Mach series machines with the vertically perforated shroud are bad machines, they cannot handle large amounts of fine dust well (the pre-motor filter will get dirty quite fast), and pet hair has a problem sticking to the shroud since the air is pulled in vertically vs. horizontally.  CR reviewed the Fusion a year or two ago and their main complaint was high dust emissions.  Apparently this shroud improvement has already been implemented in the new Hoover Mach 3 at Wal-Mart (blue with yellow touch-points).  It wouldn't surprise me if these machines eventually become top sellers in their price range...any customer who does not or cannot shell out $500 or so for a Dyson will have a good dual-cyclone machine for a fraction of that.  "Is that a new Hoover?"  "No, that's just an old Fantom, from 10 years ago, remember?"

-MH

I suspect that while the Hoover name is still widely used in the UK and Ireland as a noun to mean 'vacuum cleaner', the VAX brand is much better regarded after the Hoover 'Free Flights Fiasco'  of 1992 :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3704669.stm

It was this single response to counter Dyson's growing sales at the time, which buried the brand for good.

Moose, DC18, Trilobite, Dusty,

You guys live in England.  Can you give us 1 or 2 reasons as to why you think Dyson has lost market share there?

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How is James viewed by most over there?  When he was interviewed by BBC's "Hardtalk" host she said the newspapers, etc. called James a traitor, etc. for moving his manufacturing.  Do many or few people resent/still resent James over this move or even his rags to riches success?

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Is the Dyson school looked on favorably by people there?  Thanks!        DIB

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May be of interest:  I found this BBC audio clip - talking of Hoover UK and a mention of Dyson too. 

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7350000/newsid_7356400/7356451.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm&asb=1&news=1&ms3=52&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2

iMacDaddy wrote:

Certainly Hoover US and Hoover UK have a common enemy in Dyson.  I’ve seen the 2 companies (pre TTI) act in concert using lawsuits or otherwise against Dyson.  Dyson is the benchmark in dust separator technologies and that's what they want.        DIB

Motorhead wrote:

Motorhead,

James’ shroud development and implementation is the greatest unsung hero in the Dyson filtration success IMO.  I have not tested all the shrouds but the DC15 styled shrouds are pure genius.  I have 2 med haired cats, 1 Golden Retriever who constantly sheds much and two long haired women in my family and ZERO (or nearly) hair sticks to my DC15 style shroud if the bin is not filled over the max line.

 

The primary problem with the Fusion shroud is the shape, the distance to the interior bin wall and lack of Dyson-style perforated lip or disk.  When debris or hair goes into a Dyson bin, it (hair and debris) drops down and below the shroud and remains there for many reasons.  In contrast, the Fusion is pretty much a blender and the hair and debris is flying all over and back up and against the shroud, giving great opportunity to suck lightweight hair, etc. into it.

 

The Fusion on HSN:  When this hair sticks onto the shroud the Hoover rep intentionally misleads folks into believing this hair sticking is a common problem with (Dyson’s) cyclonic vacuums or as the rep says… “the more expensive $400, $500, $600 machines – that are the rage in the industry”.  But Hoover being the great engineers they are, have made the clear bin removable so a user can place their face and hands into the shroud area so to remove this dirty, filthy, dusty mess (from the shroud).  All the while Dave Shimkus NEVER responds to this Hoover garbage claim with a Dyson response claim and fact…  Dyson’s rarely get shroud clog.

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The old Fusion demo is on HSN/YouTube amazingly, even when Hoover can no longer legally claim No Loss of Suction in their marketing, HSN still shows the old No Loss of Suction demo, as pictured below.        DIB

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DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

Alas. the HOOVER Fusion is no more.  So the You Tube video is a moot point.  The Mach models superceded.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I can never keep up the many different names used for the same/near same product.  But as of only few days ago WalMart and HSN were still selling this contraption with this cone shaped shroud.  The old machine and video's indeed prove the point, even for the newer/Fusion-like machines - the shroud was and remains a mechanical disaster.        DIB

DIB:

Did you notice if the FUSION-s @ WM and HSN had the "no suction loss" stickers?  

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

You know the answer.        DIB

From Walmart’s Fusion page...

·  Disclaimer: Suction stays constant for up to 10 ounces of dirt, as tested by an independent laboratory by using ASTM F558 test method and a dirt composition comprised of 70% mineral dust, 20% cellulose dust and 10% fibrous material.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3922205

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

No I didn't know the answer, hence my question.  The Fusion was made initially for Wal*Mart as an exclusive and Fusion Plus for Sam's Club.  HOOVER was taken to task for the claim: Doesn't lose suction.  Even with the disclaimer [in very small print almost negligible to the consumer].  Admitting that the claim, even with the disclaimer, could be construed as "deceptive and misleading" HOOVER agreed to remove the claim from the product, product literature and carton as of certain agreed upon date.  Of course, now discontinued, except apparently for some old stock, it's a moot point.

Carmine D.

I believe Hoover Uk or Hoover Europe of which I believe it's more known as is no part of Hoover US so I've been told in the pass.  They are totally separate!  Correct me if I'm wrong.  As M00seUK says the Hoover brand in the UK is not as highly regarded as it once was mainly due tot he 'free flights' campaign that went wrong!!  In fact Hoover in the UK has not really brought us anything worth shouting about.  The Purepower range that came out in the late 90's is still about today, in fact that is the main upright line up!  One of the best machines Hoover did in the UK in the 80's was the turbopower/master range which was very popular!

As for the Mach upright series from Vax UK (re badged Hoover US models) one thing I will say about them is they are very bulky and very heavy to lift! Is that not one thing people go on about with Dyson!?  When you compare this range (Mach) to the other vax uprights they are bulky and heavy!  And another thing that will put UK people off as well is the amount of 'fiddley' switches and buttons these models have!

DC18