Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

First upright from Miele

29 February 2008 This summer, Miele will launch its first range of upright vacuum cleaners – the S7.  It will consist of about six models, all of which feature ultra large dust bags and  “a unique swivel body, which makes it easy to manoeuvre in even the trickiest  of room layouts”. According to the company,  the decision was made following  numerous requests from customers that wanted to buy Miele  but would only use  an upright model. Text: courtesy ERTweekly.com Picture: courtesy Miele.co.uk, 2009 Edited 21st March 2009; reason: loss of original image.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Let me answer the question.  It's a good one. 

The benefit of science for every day consumers is the application of new technology [innovation] to make life easier and better: i.e higher standard of living.   [We can argue whether improving the standard of living is better since it makes people LAZY just as we can who was first to market with a shroud (Filter Queen/dyson).  But let's assume for talking purposes that increasing the living standard for society is better in this case].  If the majority of people can't afford the technology, what is the impact on society except as scientific theory?  If the technology is made affordable and practical [economics] and consumers embrace it, then you have a higher standard of living and progress. 

Now, are $400 plus for a household vacuum beyond most persons' family budgets, especially now?  How about $100-$250?  What's more affordable?  The latter, of course.  So, less expensive copies make products more affordable to everyone thereby increasing availability and the standard of living [progress].  It's' not who does it first, but who copies best and sells for less.  Economics at work in the market place after science leads the way.  Aren't both [Science and Economics] equally important for society to progress?

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Very impressive Web and product presentation by MIELE for its S7.  Thank you for posting.   Makes the competition look like high school level/caliber by comparison.  As MIELEsays:  Immer Besser.  Of the five S7 uprights, the 2 most expensive [read deluxe] have headlights.  A new and novel concept in vacuums??

So far, I like what I see, read  and hear.  Still I need to get over to the local MIELE dealer.   I'm a month overdue.  My dear Wife has already started:  You're not getting one!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I was most impressed by the testing videos. They meant more to me than the total of features described.  It's great when a company lays it on the line in that fashion because when they show you something that at least appears concrete and encourages choosing their product.  The inference being, "One of ours will spare you the purchase of several machines over time," the testing videos also led me to a slightly gentler frame of mind regarding Miele's prices.  Though I'm sure there are brands that will last and clean well for less maybe there is real, justifiable  value in a Miele purchase for those who can afford it.

The headlight thing is old as can be.  Hoover and Eureka, among the oldest and most known big market vacuum makers, sold "economy" versions of basically the same upright that was at the top-of-the-line.  This was certainly true of the Hoover Convertible and Eureka's basic upright, already simple machines.  I just could never get a grasp of how a ten-cent light fixture, a little bulb and the two minutes worth of a man-hour could or should effect price all that much.  (But that's why I'm not rich by now.) However Miele did not remove but modified the speed options for the lower three of the S7 series by replacing the electronic adjustment with a rotary dial.

Venson

Thanks for the Miele links. I checked a few days ago but didn't notice any change from the previous generic S7 barker advert.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

We can argue who invented the shroud that is common place today, true.  Although mechanically the Health-More shroud cannot be demonstrated as having Dyson shroud benefits which is necessary and used by the global players today.

The Hoover Fusion (and its rebranding) use more-or-less a scaled down Health-Mor shroud which proves NOT to have Dyson shroud benefits.  The Fusion is demonstrated weekly on HSN and this conical shroud proves (weekly) to be an outright disaster (for user and for filtering).

DIB

Fusion on HSN...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th0sGJfUVx4

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

The mere fact that the FUSION, 3 years after it's launch, still maintains its original MSRP of $119 on HSN, is a testament to its popularity.  Even after Consumer Reports!  BTW, it's time to update with the MACH 3-4-5-6, the FUSION successors.

Recall that Wal*Mart [and Sam's Club] contracted with HOOVER for the FUSION after Wal*Mart and dyson had its falling out.  HOOVER sourced the FUSION to VAX [TTI] to use the HOOVER name.  The FUSION/+ were produced and marketed quickly in the Summer of 2005 for $119.  One of WM's best vacuum sellers of all time. 

Three years after the FUSION, the bagless brands' shrouds have gotten even better while the prices are 1/4 to 1/2 that of dyson.  Consumers get the bagless benefits/technology [as you call it] for less with the knock-offs like the MACH-s, Whisper-s, BISSELL Healthy Home-s, etc.  Dyson gave all the competition enough time to produce less expensive knock-offs and market in all the big box retail stores.  With hard economic times into the foreseeable future, the knock-offs will sell more and dysons won't.  Especially at the big box retail stores with inexperienced store staffs that can't sell the high priced dysons like the expert independent vacuum store owners/operators.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I’m glad you agree.  The Health-Mor conical shield or screen simply fails compared to the self-cleaning Dyson screen (shroud),

Dyson created an entirely new market (low w/ high efeicency cyclonic) and has since found himself competing against his own technologies (the Dual Cyclone and multi-cyclone).  And as illustrated, (the Fusion) the conical is comical and complete rubbish.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

Before you pat yourself on the back because I agree with just one of your observations, don't ignore the rest of my post.  The shrouds AND performance of today's bagless upright dyson knock-offs like the VAX, MACH, Whisper and BISSELL Healthy Home are just as good as dyson, IMHO.  These makes/models are considerably less expensive than dysons.   AND the reason these knock-offs are multiplying and selling at all the big box retail stores while dysons are sitting on the shelves collecting dust. 

MIELE on the contrary MAY fare much better than dyson with the new S7 line in big box retail stores.  Why?  What is the high end vacuum bagged competition for MIELE in the bb retail stores?  AND,  MIELE has an established name and rep for vacuums and household appliances.  Consumers know the value of the MIELE brand name.  It sells itself.  MIELE-s don't need an expert vacuum sales person to demo and close the MIELE sale at a big box store, like is the case with a $400 plus dyson.  Typically, MIELE vacuum customers are repeat MIELE buyers and pass down/gift away the old MIELE.  No need for trade-in.  Dyson?  I've not heard the repeat buy stats.  Do you know what they are?

Carmine D.

&amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;gt;&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR><SPAN CLASS="quotedmessageheader">CarmineD wrote:</SPAN><BR><DIV CLASS="quotedmessage">DIB:&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;Before you pat yourself on the back because I agree with just one of your observations, don't ignore the rest of my post.  The shrouds AND performance of today's bagless upright dyson knock-offs like the VAX, MACH, Whisper and BISSELL Healthy Home are just as good as dyson, IMHO.  These makes/models are considerably less expensive than dysons.   AND the reason these knock-offs are multiplying and selling at all the big box retail stores while dysons are sitting on the shelves collecting dust.  &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;MIELE on the contrary MAY fare much better than dyson with the new S7 line in big box retail stores.  Why?  What is the high end vacuum bagged competition for MIELE in the bb retail stores?  AND,  MIELE has an established name and rep for vacuums and household appliances.  Consumers know the value of the MIELE brand name.  It sells itself.  MIELE-s don't need an expert vacuum sales person to demo and close the MIELE sale at a big box store, like is the case with a $400 plus dyson.  Typically, MIELE vacuum customers are repeat MIELE buyers and pass down/gift away the old MIELE.  No need for trade-in.  Dyson?  I've not heard the repeat buy stats.  Do you know what they are?&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p<BR><BR>&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR<BR><BR

Carmine,

You do the rope-a-dope when you're put on the spot. I have never backed down from yours or Moles baiting. I like a challenge. Sometimes I have to think for a while before answering the “bait”. But I do answer. And sometimes I do not have the free time to answer the many statements, but I try to “go after” the most pertinent or something I have an answer to. Hey, you never answered my CR question of... Is Consumer Reports (w/ vacuum testing) Science, Laughable or both?

The many variations of Dyson technologies that have been reversed engineered or copied (Dyson’s many expired patents) are indeed successful; in dollars, in sales and in the eyes of the end users. Dyson will need to re-think his floating nozzle arrangement if he wants to out-perform his own technologies (used by competing manufacturers) at Consumer Reports, Which and Better Homes and Gardens (they do their own testing too).

The Miele “swivel” launching[?] at Best Buy is an obvious attempt to siphon off or profit from Dyson proving out another segment... the Dyson “steerable’s”. Like leeches, Miele and Hoover Uk wait for Dyson to spend the big money on television advertising and only then do they launch their swivels. Dyson invented steerable’s, Miele and Hoover UK have unpatentable swivelables.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote: