Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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rjg2
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
Points: 7
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Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Original Message Feb 17, 2008 5:01 am |
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Hello, I am looking at purchasing a good vac for pet hair. I am considering the above 2 or something else. I prefer a bagless upright that has attachments. I like the price of the Sanitaire. I also would like something that is reliable. Thanks for any help!
This message was modified Feb 17, 2008 by rjg2
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #91 Jun 10, 2008 2:19 am |
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Dusty: No I don't think either SEBO/ORECK do. Why? If they did, they would be made in China and be sold in the big box stores and TV sales network stations like dysons. SEBO and ORECK are not interested in these sales venues. Miele? Maybe soon? Although I suspect Miele will continue to be made in Germany with another factory in the USA, perhaps Mexico? SEBO and ORECK are content with the market share/niches that they carved out over the years. They are both well respected brand names. Other brands and brand sellers are envious. Why? Because they try to compete in those niche markets with SEBO and ORECK too. [Quality, lightweight and top tier performers]. Carmine D. Carmine, I'll post it and phrase it differently... Dyson has a 28% Canadian market share and you think it is in Oreck's best interest not to be at a 28% market share too. If D.O. was solely owned I could go along with your analogies and D.O. can do as he pleases with his namesake. But since he has 3 or more investors one would assume growing market share and profits would be a good thing. Do you think D.O. secured these investors by painting a picture of growth or painting a picture of no growth? DIB
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #92 Jun 10, 2008 3:02 am |
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DIB, Why not buy one of Carmine's perferred vacuums. They only require expensive bags which do not fill frequently because the vacuum doesn't pull out enough dirt to fill them. You can also change the belt 3 to 4 times annually. Remember the belts will need frequent changing because it fails even while stored and not in use. His previous recommendations only required that the screen prior to the pleated filter be removed and cleaned a half dozen times with each use. Otherwise no suction. If you are luck the pleatged filter will last the duration of each vacuuming without cleaning. After vacuuming you can take the pleated filter out and beat the dust out of it while breathing the filth. You might also need another vacuum to vacuum the remaining dirt out of the pleated filter. Another of his previous favorite bagless spewed so much dirt that no filter was needed. Hardsell, Lets see what it takes for "Mr/Mrs/Miss not-so-good-with-tools" to maintain his/her belted vacuum cleaner... Load a vacuum into a car, drive vacuum to a local vacuum dealer, unload vacuum and drop off, return to dealer at some later date, load vacuum into car, unload vacuum once home and do it 2-4 times a year is something most would prefer not to do. DIB
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #93 Jun 10, 2008 7:08 am |
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Carmine, Dyson has a 28% Canadian market share and you think it is in Oreck's best interest not to be at a 28% market Do you think D.O. secured these investors by painting a picture of growth or painting a picture of no growth? DIB
Hello DIB:
Is that in sales dollars or units? ORECK has respect as a brand name. Quality products. Made in the USA by Americans. ORECK has a consistent niche market share year after year and has for many years. Offers a plethora of floor care products. And air purifiers. These factors in union draw investor interest and support. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #94 Jun 10, 2008 7:16 am |
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Hardsell, Lets see what it takes for "Mr/Mrs/Miss not-so-good-with-tools" to maintain his/her belted vacuum cleaner... Load a vacuum into a car, drive vacuum to a local vacuum dealer, unload vacuum and drop off, return to dealer at some later date, load vacuum into car, unload vacuum once home and do it 2-4 times a year is something most would prefer not to do. DIB
Hello DIB:
Are you describing the typical profile of a big box store vacuum cleaner buyer and user in the USA? If so, it's skewed. These vacuums are disposed after a few years with liitle or no repairs. Are you describing an indy vacuum store buyer and user? In which case, you still have a skewed perspective. With an indy store vacuum, it's not a one time sale transaction and sayonara. It's a business relationship with customers over time. If you are describing dyson buyers, who bought into the myth of no clogging filters, returning their vacuums for repairs/warranty, then you are exactly right. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #95 Jun 10, 2008 7:25 am |
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Well to start with, the Oreck XL Classic sells for $349 in Canada and no, we don't make $200 on it ...but we don't make $200 on a $499 Dyson vac either. I never actually mentioned a model or price, it was you that said $500. I don't particularly want to post cost of vacuums here but $200 profit on the rest of the Oreck line isn't out of the ordinary and that's still less profit than most dealers make on a Miele or other high end machine. I defend Dyson because the customers I have sold the product too like the product and compared to other bagless machines I believe it's a superior machine. Every vac has it's place whether it be Oreck, Dyson, Eureka or whatever.
Dusty
Hello Dusty:
I detect some back pedaling on your part? Are you conflicted? In the USA, BEST BUY and TARGET stores sell dysons at MSRP of $400 [DC07] to $549 [DC17] with all prices in between [before discounts and incentive]. If you're having a change of heart and mind [conflicted] you might want to re-visit your previous post. I added it below with highlighting. Even when we point out that bins need to be emptied and filters cleaned, the customer that comes in looking for a Dyson will still choose it over the majority of our bag models. Again, just the thought of having to do a little less is all it takes for them to spend $500. This is exactly why we decided to carry the line...it's easier to give the customer what they want rather than constantly selling away from it all the time. It may not be my favorite machine but $200 profit in my pocket is better than letting Best Buy or Target have it.
Dusty Unless you are a big box store retailer, the product with most profit should never be the justification for sale. My sense from you is that in the case of dyson it is the prime reason. Others before you made the same case for dyson based on profits. I posted about them. Boasted of dyson profits. If you want to stay in business, give customers their money's worth. Not exaggerated claims. On one hand, you sell dysons [for the money] and on the other you believe and prefer SEBO, RICCAR and other indy vacuum store brands.
Again Carmine, don't get me wrong. I'm a Riccar and Sebo guy.
Dusty
You made this statement here at least 4 times by my reading.
BTW, most car dealers in the USA these days are happy to move cars off the lot [especially gas guzzlers] with a $200 profit. Thrilled. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #96 Jun 10, 2008 8:19 am |
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HARDSELL: Who said? The CFO of Wal*Mart and the Exec VP for Wal*Mart's home division. Retail sales numbers for May were reported last week. The best performers: Wal*Mart and COSTCO with same store sales increases of 3.9 and 5 percent. Wal*Mart's VP for the home division says and I quote: "We see really solid numbers that show people are staying at home more, and when they are at home, they are preparing food, and that means they [have] to sweep and vacuum their floor, so one of my biggest departments is floor care, vacuum cleaners for example." Read an weep. Carmine D.
I do not see most Wal Mart shoppers as being the socially elite. Their menu of surf and turf is fish and bar b que. When they are preparing food they usually skin it in the yard. You really do not need to do a lot of house cleaning to serve a six pack with pickled weiners and pickled eggs.
In your quote there is no mention of the number of vacuumings per week. Of coures you would be the one to try and interpret to suit your argument.
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #97 Jun 10, 2008 8:23 am |
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HARDSELL: Those pleated HOOVER cartridge filters, like in the EmPower and WT are teflon coated, completely immersible, and guaranteed for the lifetime of the vacuums. Less expensive than the leading bagless brand filters. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the post motor filters on the latest dysons DC24/25 are P-L-E-A-T-E-D paper. Carmine D.
Again Carmine you are twisting. Longevity does not mean non clogging. Those Hoover filters clog within the first few minutes of start up regardless of what they are made of. Once again you are trying to deceive.
I have not researched the DC24/25. When I do I will be honest in my comments whether negative or positive. You should do the same.
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mole
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Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #98 Jun 10, 2008 9:22 am |
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Hardsell, Lets see what it takes for "Mr/Mrs/Miss not-so-good-with-tools" to maintain his/her belted vacuum cleaner... Load a vacuum into a car, drive vacuum to a local vacuum dealer, unload vacuum and drop off, return to dealer at some later date, load vacuum into car, unload vacuum once home and do it 2-4 times a year is something most would prefer not to do. DIB
Oh yeah,its much easier to have UPS,deliver the dyson back and forth to their expert repair center [in buffalo]wait 4 or 5 weeks to get it back and a week later the problem is still there,And you get to pay the shipping charges,
Of course customer service will e mail you and tell you that they are awfully sorry and do feel your pain,And offer you a coupon for another product we sell that does not work properly,maybe the famous hand vac you know the one that you need 2 hands to use. I even have a motto for dyson,how about quality products through employee participation,you know the guys in the white coats that are so smart you have to tell them when its time to go home,or come out of the rain.[HOW COME THE SKY IS BLUE]?.......... MOLE
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dusty
Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #99 Jun 10, 2008 10:00 am |
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Hello Dusty: I detect some back pedaling on your part? Are you conflicted? In the USA, BEST BUY and TARGET stores sell dysons at MSRP of $400 [DC07] to $549 [DC17] with all prices in between [before discounts and incentive]. If you're having a change of heart and mind [conflicted] you might want to re-visit your previous post. I added it below with highlighting. Unless you are a big box store retailer, the product with most profit should never be the justification for sale. My sense from you is that in the case of dyson it is the prime reason. Others before you made the same case for dyson based on profits. I posted about them. Boasted of dyson profits. If you want to stay in business, give customers their money's worth. Not exaggerated claims. On one hand, you sell dysons [for the money] and on the other you believe and prefer SEBO, RICCAR and other indy vacuum store brands. You made this statement here at least 4 times by my reading.
BTW, most car dealers in the USA these days are happy to move cars off the lot [especially gas guzzlers] with a $200 profit. Thrilled. Carmine D. No back peddling at all, I stand corrected. My intent wasn't to link the $500 to the $200....two different thoughts at the time. Point for you :-) I will still tell you however that Dyson is the least profitable of our high end lines which include Oreck, Riccar, and Sebo so your suggestion that I back Dyson due to profit is incorrect. I also mention that I prefer Sebo and Riccar because I get the feeling that you think I'm all about selling Dysons, which I'm not. If a customer comes to me looking for one, that is what I show. If they come looking for something else then they get shown something else. In Canada Dyson runs from $499 to $749 with no independent dealer exclusives. We sell for the exact same price as all the major department stores.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #100 Jun 10, 2008 2:58 pm |
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Hello Dusty: Thank you for the clarification. No points wanted. My sense from your posts was that dyson profit was a strong motivating factor for sale. I'm pleased to know it is not. If I were in business, I would carry the dyson line. Just as an accomodation for customers who specifically ask. But I would most definitely demo the kapoc test and list the shortcomings of the dyson vacuum honestly and frankly. I would have no choice but to carry since the repair work and genuine parts would depend on sales too. ACERONE was a small indy dealer exclusively of dyson products. He eventually could not compete and profit with dyson. Dyson abandoned him for the big box stores. Just as HOOVER did with its dealers in the 60's. Much of vacuum industry history is repetitive. What you are, we once were. What we are, you will soon be. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jun 10, 2008 by CarmineD
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