Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Some observations -

• Oreck is conspicuously missing from the upright ratings.
• Panasonic has a new AeroBlast for $700 is a apparently a poor copy of a Dyson that burps loudly when it reverses the air flow to clean the filter.   Why would anyone pay so much for a Dyson copy, particularly when the filter clogs with fine dust?
  
• Hoover's fall from grace is noted, presumably due to their ill conceived bagless vacuums.  Hoover now has the worst reliability of the uprights.  Dyson is second only to Kirby in the reliability rankings.   
  
• For uprights, Kenmore takes the top 2 spots (bagged and bagless), followed by the Riccar SupraLite RSL3, the Electrolux Oxygen EL5035A, and the Kirby Sentria.  
  
• The Halo is #33 on the list for uprights. 
  
• The $60 Hoover Tempo Widepath has a better tool airflow score than the Dyson DC17 as well as better carpet cleaning scores. 
  

Hi DIB, H.S.,

Dib your wrong in your assumptions about me,I think you should retract that post.H.S. you and I have gone at it for over 3 years now .

You are trying to combat one of the living legends in the industry.

GOOD LUCK.........

THE  MOLE

Hi all,

Here's the Seattle Times interpretation of the latest Consumer Reports vacuum estimations.

Best,

Venson

mole wrote:

Howdy Mole,

I’m so sorry.  It took me a while to come up with a well thought out answer to the questions you posed. . It’s for you to judge how worthwhile all the thinking was.  First let me say . . .

In no way an original thought on my part but, as an instance, in the music industry -- a business unto itself -- there are about three levels of artists.  There are those who do the work more for the love of the craft than love of money and who are unafraid to bear the weight of faith in uncompromised originality on their shoulders.  They make their sacrifices, they put blood, they put sweat, they put tears into the effort of "making" and may gather something of a following but don't usually get the accolades or landmark returns for all the effort invested.  Could this be representative of now defunct Air-Way and some similar old guard American manufacturers either still in business or gone?

Then there those who are adept at imitating the former with less investment.  Onstage, though maybe not as artful, they know all the technical moves to the dance and can match poses with the real talent well enough to produce some semblance of “know how”.  They usually do well because they focus on the look of things re the status quo.  Could that be Aerus and several other companies?

Lowest on the ladder are the mere assemblers of things.  They are picked by bigger entities and haberdashers to put forth cute stuff of dubious quality that money can be quickly made from and ask no bigger questions than, "When's lunch?"  They say what they are told to say, stand where they’re directed to stand and move right to left as directed by guides who care little about the art of manufacture but a lot about pleasing the crowd with the superficial -- again all for money.

Anyway . . .

If I were in charge of putting together a vacuum cleaner from the ground up, though I’d be more inclined to want to develop a traditional bagged canister with power nozzle, I might be also intrigued by seeking a way to the best of both worlds. 

I might want to opt for a two-motor machine say no more than 12-15 inches in overall body width and of no more than a 10-inch height with an attached power nozzle.  The design idea being that the vacuum could be used upright style for rug cleaning and flipped back horizontally for better mobility for above the floor cleaning and other duty.

There would of course have to be safety mechanisms in place to keep the brushroll from becoming operable while the machine is in horizontal position.

I think I’d opt for a hand-operated cordwinder similar to the one used back in the day on the Lewyt 210.  The amount of actions you usually go through to guide a power cord into a spring-wound winder aren’t significantly less involved than reeling in a cord by hand.  There’d be also be less components in the winder to bother about.

I’d first want to find as compact, quiet and well-balanced a two-stage fan and armature set-up as I could get and see to it being well-mounted.  I’d also want to research and design an integral baffle set up, prior or post final filters, for exhaust air that might lessen noise additionally and allow less reliance on sound muffling material that may promote heat build-up.  And all that of course without impeding air flow.  Automobile mufflers basically use this idea don’t they?

Yes, I’d want my machine to be bagged.  I would also want as large as possible high-efficiency filtration area, pre-motor and after, besides a large disposable bag. Design of the bag chamber would of course allow for efficient airflow all around the disposable bag.

Plastic would be used as a mainstay for the overall body of the unit but a metal skeleton of some sort could be used to further strengthen the cleaner’s body and possibly be incorporated as a motor mount.  Ideas as to how to keep the machine as easily owner repairable as is reasonable would also have to be kept in mind while thinking on overall design.

I cannot answer questions as to cost but the idea, I feel, can be realized by way of modification of forms already here.  This is something, Miele, Tacony or Electrolux could easily do it if they wanted to.  Of course the issue is that it would be different.  Different is always an exception on way or the other when making money is in mind.

Best,

Venson

 

 

Hi Venson, thanks for  your imput,well said.

So it looks like we would have to build 2 or 3 different vacuums to satisfy the different consumer needs.

A good arguement if this could be made for airway,staying with one type of machine,although they had an upright a thousand years ago[ok 50 years ago].

At the other end of the spectrum was hoover as we knew it ,mistake after mistake after mistake,finally when there was nothing left , there was nothing left but the name to sell off.Maybe TTI can help hoover make the comeback and start leading the vacuum industry again.Yes the tempo is a good cleaner for 60 bucks.I'm sure TTI has many other areas of  which they would want to do R@D on.

The combo unit your talking about sounds like the seboFELIX, but is way too expensive,As you pointed out many times the average vacuum buyer doesnt care what it does or the projected lifespan is I'M NOT PAYING THAT MUCH FOR A VACUUM CLEANER.

Now we know why the rebuilt vacuum guys do so well,And yes they are the SMART ones in this business.

Also central vacuums are making more sense everyday,MAYBE BECAUSE OF THE PRICING].

The little blue pig that eats dirt was made out of magnesium, I liked the idea if it ever blew up i could melt it down and make a spare wheel for the race car.........

MOLE

mole wrote:

Mole, that's what recycling is all about.

Venson

DysonInventsBig wrote:
DysonInventsBig,

I feel compelled to  your slanderous comments.   You are out of your mind. I have never and will never post under the nickname "Mole".    Perhaps you are naively assuming that only one person disagrees with your Dyson drivel?   Please keep on task and refrain from making unfounded personal attacks on this forum.  

Curiously, you are attacking people for keeping personal information (i.e. names) private, when you are doing the same.   Or is your name really "I like Inventors"? 

-Severus

Hi gang,

I was at the Riccar site today and discovered a link to a video segment re the top-rated vacumms in the last CR review.  I found it especially interesting since women are involved in making the discussion and, being the main users of these appliances, have a less clinical outlook at the whole thing.  For them it''s often simply about getting the job done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23008886#23008886

Best,

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
There's no possible way the Tempo will outlast the DC17.  Having seen a Tempo/Windtunnel up close and having used one, I know that.  It's not nearly as well made as the Dyson (remember who's second most reliable in the CR report).  When you buy a $60 vacuum, you get what you pay for.  You don't get the quality of a $500 vacuum, it's just not possible.  You get something that will last you a couple of years and that's it.  Not to mention the cost of upkeep, bags, belts, and such.  2 Type Y bags sell for $9 at K-Mart.  If you change them once a month, it will cost you approximately $60 a year.  Dysons have no additional maintenance costs.

Speaking of Dysons and such, I had a chance to visit my good friend Tom this past week for a cross-country trip to NC and spent last Wednesday and part of yesterday at his shop.  Wednesday afternoon a lady brought in a Tempo (the same one you recommend) for service, complaining that it would not pick up well on carpets.   It looked like a fairly recent machine as the body itself wasn't in bad shape and not abused.  Turns out the belt was stretched and needed replacement, after only one month of use.   The machine itself worked OK (a little squealing), but of course the bag hadn't been changed since who-knows-when and smelled horrible from the exhaust.  The headlight bulb was also burned out, go figure. 

When was the last time you heard about a Dyson belt stretched out after one month?  Another customer brought in a very well-loved yellow Dyson DC07 (easily 4-5 years old) that had been used in a commercial setting.  The bin latch would not release so it needed replacement; consequently the bin was packed full with nasty hair, dirt, etc. since no one could empty it.  The pre-motor filter was absolutely filthy and looked like it had never been cleaned once in its entire life.  But guess what?  Not only did it still run and had suction, the exhaust didn't stink.  Aside from that the machine was fully functional and nothing else on it was broken, as bad as it looked!  I can only imagine how a WindTunnel would last in that environment, not long.  It especially wouldn't continue to pick up and pack that bin even more full like this DC07 did.

Sure, there are probably people that like the Tempo as the reviews indicate, but notice that unlike the DC17 reviews, none of them say it makes them breathe better, or get all of the pet dander out of the carpet.  None say it makes the carpet look better, and not one of the reviews you posted show that anyone's friends recommended it to them. 

CR may not like Dysons all that much, but there's one thing the Dyson has that the others don't: the word-of-mouth popularity that cannot be stopped. 

-MH

M.H. how did the dc07 cyclones look,clean or blocked,did anything get by the premotor filter?

MOLE

mole wrote:
Hi Mole,

The cyclones were dusty, but not clogged.  I heard they do trap some residual fine dust from use and this machine was far from new so that's understandable.  A quick blast with the air compressor will clean them.  The area behind the pre-motor filter was clean.