Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Some observations -

• Oreck is conspicuously missing from the upright ratings.
• Panasonic has a new AeroBlast for $700 is a apparently a poor copy of a Dyson that burps loudly when it reverses the air flow to clean the filter.   Why would anyone pay so much for a Dyson copy, particularly when the filter clogs with fine dust?
  
• Hoover's fall from grace is noted, presumably due to their ill conceived bagless vacuums.  Hoover now has the worst reliability of the uprights.  Dyson is second only to Kirby in the reliability rankings.   
  
• For uprights, Kenmore takes the top 2 spots (bagged and bagless), followed by the Riccar SupraLite RSL3, the Electrolux Oxygen EL5035A, and the Kirby Sentria.  
  
• The Halo is #33 on the list for uprights. 
  
• The $60 Hoover Tempo Widepath has a better tool airflow score than the Dyson DC17 as well as better carpet cleaning scores. 
  

mole wrote:
Hi all,
Mole, I second your opinion.  This appears to be quite common today, whether it be vacuums, automobiles, furniture, appliances, even the level of customer service that is given today, just about everything is JUNK, even the so called "higher quality" products are a joke too!

I recently bought a Lindhaus Aria, it has been in the repair shop longer than it has been in my house, I'm very disappointed to say the least.

"take an old lux, kirby, f.q. even a royal anyday..." this is probably one of the most common sense statements I've heard in a long while.  I'll add to it, refurbish/rebuild them as well!

Vernon

mole wrote:

Hiya Mole,

Take a look! I finally got the quote thing figured out.  Anyway . . .

In recent times too many facets of business have relied upon buying up or relying on names to slap on flavor of the day product to make money off a dumbed-down public.  And that kind of business is all about nothing.  I in no way believe the American public is that dumb just beleagured with too many essential problems to argue.  Therefore, for the consumer, the least path of resistance becomes easy to follow when you've more important things on your mind than merely choosing a vacuum cleaner. 

When hit with endless hype by way of legendary name or cyclones or powers of levitation or germ zapping potential or whatever so-called convenience, it's easy to half-hear the story and half-think in regard to what you're about to buy.  How much do we think about price when the usual is to reach into pocket or purse and whip out a credit card.  That 500, 800 or 1,000 dollars is in no way considered peanuts but throw in the possibility of "easy payment" and there you go -- done deal. That has become a way of life here for many and, per constant reports of credit card debt, a big problem for many.  Even with the benefit of a credit card people have had to seriously come to grips with what they're buying and why.

If we in the U.S. continue to face the scary economic situation we're experiencing, something's got to give if the rent's going to stay paid up.  The "money for nothing" deal could soon be going out the window.  After all what is money that can be well-used elsewhere when spent on high-priced product that's less or no more effective than the same to be had at a lesser price? Waste.

I am not against "luxury" or, if you will, high-end items that bear high prices or those that can afford them.  It always feels a kind of nice to have something different, possibly a cut above the what's in the house next door.  Nonetheless, I am thoroughly against anything over-priced.  To me over-priced items are any high price tag products made without particular skill, quality or forethought. 

Here I'd ask anyone old enough to recall, if the pricing ratio on vacuums have remained the same.  Did the prices for Elecxtrolux G, Kirby, FQ, or Rainbow fall in as high proportion against the average weekly wage as they do know?  I remember as a kid that the brands like Hoover and Eureka, sold in department stores and small vendorships, usually charged a whopping $89.95 for a top-of-the-line model.  If the porportion of price is still the same now as then I have no particular argument yet I would question why the brands mentioned still turn up years later and are still capable of giving service.

I don't delight in seeing either people or industry learn things the hard way but as my grandad always said, "A hard head makes for a soft you-know-what."  I'm reconsidering my borrowed "just say no" attitude as there may not much chance for manufacturers or consumers to wrestle over acceptable product if in future it's no longer a matter of saying, "No," but saying, "Sorry, I can't afford it."

Best,

Venson

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Luck1,

Hose replacement cost is not just a problem with the brand mentioned.  Unfortunately, it may cost near half the price of the cleaner to replace an electrified hose on even a Kenmore canister.  Multiply the problem by the number of other brands that offer a bare minimum of consumer repairable components and the picture is ridiculous.  I'll spare you my rant. 

I had a problem with a Kenmore hose and only got around buying a complete new hose because I knew what I needed when I contacted the Sears parts department.  This should have led to an outcome better than most.  BUT the fly in the ointment was that though the parts department would very happily sell the part, it would not tell you how to install it.  Fortunately I managed on my own. 

Electrolux (Aerus) for a time made a very easely replacable attachement-end on its hoses but has also gave up on that.  Most other brands have fallen into the same practice of forcing the buyer to buy a complete component instead of parts especially in regard to electrified hoses -- most of which are outsourced in the first place.  This is just anothe way of squeezing more money out of consumrs and it won't stop until somebody starts kicking.

Venson

Hi Vernon,Venson,LUCKY1,and anyone else that knows this business,[Yes Carmine even you].

I would like to submit the following question.

1 If you are in charge of producing a cleaner,and cost  and quality is the most important factor,and of course staying in business is important,What type of cleaner would you build, and what price point would you chase.

2 Would you hire people to design,engineer it, give it a retro look?.

3 or buy a company thats already going and use the   same as it's always been approach......

Please think about what and where this industry has become before posting........

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

First, congrats on the Super Bowl victory by the Giants.  NY won, without the point spread.  Here in Vegas it was 10 points.  Must have cost the book makers a fortune.  I knew many who picked the Giants outright without the spread. 

Excellent questions.  In my experience, the most innovative vacuum technology without question in my lifetime is the IRobot vacuums.  Very interesting company history and products.  This is the future in vacuums.  All styles, prices and features.  To date, iRobot has the lock on the market.  Even to the exclusion of other brands who try to compete.  Most retailers have culled competing robotic vacuums in favor of the Rhoomba.  Intro'ed in September 2002 without alot of hype and fanfare.  Now in its 5th generation of robotics with an array of related products [which result in economies of scale and less expensive prices].  Robots were the talk of the vacuum industry in the 50's although no one had any vision of what they would be like and how they would work. 

Sidebar:  I have to laugh at the critics here who kow tow the robotic vacuums in one breadth and in the other idolize bagless cyclones instead.  The latter can't hold a candle to the former in terms of innovation, technology, and impact on the vacuum market and the future of the industry.

Central vacuum systems have progressed in my lifetime and become more price competitive with better performance.  Comparable to the best and priciest portables.

Filtrete paper bags.  I see even BEST BUY advertises the Eureka Boss Smart Vac upright and the filtrete paper bags along with.  Others too of lesser significance but still credit worthy: Uprights with on board tools [thanks to HOOVER Dial], self-propelled [again HOOVER] and yes, even lightweights thanks to Oreck.   And an array of desirable features like the auotmatic shut off [Lux], the full bag indicator, and so on.

BTW, the Eureka Boss Smart Vac upright is another missing from the March 2008 Consumer Reports, which went on stands yesterday.  So are the new Eureka Capture uprights [the latest and greatest Eureka bagless uprights].  The latter possibly due to the newness and need by CR for more time to test and rate.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Thank you for your reply,I agree with you that robotics have been talked about for years in the industry.

Is it at the point where these are worthy of the asking prices? I understand that most of the public really likes this idea,[have someone or something else do the work for them]

The robotics machines range from 59.95 to 1800.00. I quess the closest thing yet in the other sector are central vacuum systems,[this market is starting to make a lot more sense with the price of high end portables,these are a much better bang for the dollar.[The same problems arise with this as with the portables,the customer still has to take it out and use it.[The hose].

The high end portable market especially the upright market is on the decline,yes there are a few machines out there that have captured the commercial market,[NOT THE ONES THAT SOME ON THE FORUM THINK IT IS].

Lets face it Carmine,people are vey lazy today,More than likely because of machines that do the work for them.

Another thing that i am taking note of today is that the younger generation[under 40],is that anything more than 5 years old is out of style and they must have new and shiny stuff.. And the price they pay for it is borderline lunacy............

MOLE

mole wrote:
1. I would build a Canister just like the Miele Galaxy Series (Carina, Antares etc) but with an electric hose connected to a Sebo ET1 powerhead. A sealed system with advanced HEPA option. I would like it to be at the $499.00 price point but I think customers (at least in the NY Metro Area) would pay $650.00 or more. I get SO MANY people asking for powerful, Healthy, Lightweight Canisters.

I would like an upright like the Simplicity Freedom BUT WITH TOOLS (or ability to take tools) and a roller shutoff switch. Price point at $349.00 or less. Also a Sebo Felix but with a better design at $499.00

2. I would go VERY MODERN & STREAMLINED. Make it very simple looking and easy to use. I find customers shy away from anything with lots of stuff hanging off a vac. The Felix is a fantastic and unique vacuum but it's style is a hard sell.

3. Anyone who Knows the Eureka-Electrolux sham should despise the deceit pulled on the unsuspecting public but you cannot deny how successful it is working. GRRR!

PS Who is making the Kenmore stuff that is top rated in CR? Is it LG? Panasonic still?

Thanks

Hi LUCKY1,you and i think along the same lines,mix up a few of the best features from each company,and then price it at a fair markup. Yes you are correct the electrolux/a.b has done a lot of damage to the other aerus/electrolux.A lot of customers that had the origional lux product have bought the eureka/lux stuff and felt like they been suckered.

The comments we hear run along the following lines.Boy what junk electrolux is building now.

For your information,the aerus products are still being built with no planned obsolensince, all the parts are available,the hose handles ,powernozzle parts,right down to the elbow sleeves, and wire harnesses. Aerus sells their products with the consumer in mind.And stand behind their warranty.

The stores are mostly held by individual owners,some are excellent with people that have been in the industry for years,and some are run by BOZOS,    who dont deserve to be in the businees..............

MOLE

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1:

I posed that same question to SEARS persons today.  Here's how they answered.  They showed me the SEAR's vacuums' labels with place of production/origin:  China!  And said: "Who knows?"  Which brought us to a discussion about the new HOOVER WT Cyclonic.  Made in China, after the TTI buyout of Maytag/Hoover.  With a HOOVER, North Canton Ohio label.  As we know that plant has been shuttered.

Carmine D. 

Got my issue yesterday.  I agree with everything Severus said, especially about that AeroBlast!  Why pay more for a Dyson copy when you can get the real thing for less?  I don't understand.  The air-blowing action is supposed to clean the pre-motor filter (it is a dual-cyclone with no bin filter), but the dual cyclone setup must not work well if the pre-motor filter clogs.  The Halo rating doesn't surprise me either, actually we could say that's one of the few instances where CR is right.  

I was pleased to see Dyson score as second-most-reliable for uprights.  The Hoover cyclonic bagless cleaners are a TTI design, I thought they were interesting and not badly constructed but I guess reader surveys indicate otherwise.  Although since Hoover hasn't been all that reliable in recent years, I wonder if the old design is contributing to that drop as well. 

Notice that again, the Electrolux Oxygen scores highest for canisters, while its sister models (Harmony and TwinClean) score considerably lower.  Why?  Apparently pet hair stopped the power nozzle just as it did on the last test.  Yet these cleaners use the same power nozzle!  In addition I see the DC17's ranking has improved as well, yet the machine itself is unchanged.  On the last report it scored 1 lower than the Bissell HealthyHome (which has also remained unchanged).  The DC21's rather low rating was disappointing, it's a lot better machine than they make it out to be.  Ridiculous.

The Kenmore, Tempo (with "Ametek Shanghai" motor no less), and Oxygen ratings are unsurprising, always a need for a "token machine".  In real life there's no way they would fare that well, and even so, how long would they last...