Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iH9bdT5tcFOJz0hhY1fBBfP9KbLQ

http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/productmodel.asp?model=DC22

CarmineD wrote:

Hey Carmine,

Mr. Dyson, and the great majority of vacuum manufacturers use brushrolls that date back 100 years or so, are in the public domain and who's inventors have long deceased.

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Hoover and Bissell simply reversed engineered a very much alive inventor/s inventions - James Dyson and his teams 3 to 4 year old technologies, did it legally, not better. - Although I will give Hoover and Bissell the nod for slothfulness.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:
I'll bet you claimed that the electric light bulb would never replace the kerosene lantern and that the commode was just a fad and everyone would go back to the out house.

Hello guys:

Unfortunately in one regard, Mr. Dyson, and his new age vacuum industry, did not profit from the errors made in the auto industry by the Old Guard.  He took a page right from the GM playbook which was better left unturned.

In its quest to capture market share GM produced too many models on the same theme.  Confused many buyers and more importantly as GM admits today competed against itself for sales of vehicles.

Sound familiar? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Sounds more like Hoover / Dirt Devil  or Eureka rather than Dyson. Eureka show 5 different Captures on their web page, all different colors and only a few different features between them.  On top of that you can by Eureka's Altima and Maxima bagless models too.  If that's not competing against yourself I don't know what is.

Dusty

Hi Dusty:

Very true, but keep in mind that the big box stores are noted for wanting new models to sell annually and the brands you mentioned including dyson accomodate them. 

How often do the indy vacuum store brands like RICCAR/Simplicity, ORECK, Lindhaus, Kirby, Aerus, SEBO, Miele, and Royal [more in line price wise with dyson] launch new models?   Not every year. 

Look at the proliferation of dysons since its launch in the USA: 

2002, DC07 and host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2003, DC14 and host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2004, DC11.  Scrubbed after 9 months. 

2005, DC15 Ball and a host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2006, DC16,17,18, 20/21. 

2007, reprieve, due to Air Blade, probably and opening a new HS for engineers. 

2008, DC18 [Allergy and asthma], DC22/23 and DC24 and DC25 and the year isn't over yet!    

Now, look at the market share of dysons in the USA in sku's during this time: 

2002, about 3-4 percent [with the DC07] for partial year. 

2003, about 6 percent [with the DC07 and DC14]. 

2004, about 8 percent [with 2 models: DC07 and DC14]. 

2005, about 9 percent. [with 3 models: DC07, DC14, DC15].

2006, about 9 percent. [with 3 models for full year: DC07, DC14, DC15 and partial year: DC17, DC18, DC20/21].

In 2007, about 10 percent and since has been declining.  With 6 dyson models for the entire year [DC07, DC14, DC15, DC17, DC18, DC20/21].  4 new on top of the DC07 and DC14.  I didn't count the DC16, tho I suspect dyson may in market share.

Almost no increase in market share in 3 years with 4 new dyson models added to the original DC07 and the DC14. 

2008:  market share ??  Add new models: DC22/23, DC24, DC25 and the year isn't over yet!.  I didn't count the DC17 Allergy and Asthma which is an updated model from the original DC17.

2009: market share??    New models: ??? 

Time will tell.  But............I agree with JUST, the glory days of dyson in the USA are over.  Now comes the time for dyson to settle in with the given products and carve out the dyson vacuum market in the USA for the future.  I suspect it will be in the range of 6-7 percent per year in units IF the US economy rebounds soon. 

Dyson has made numerous exclusives [variations on the dyson theme] in models DC07, 14, 15, 18 for SEARS, BEST BUY, Wal*Mart, TARGET, COSTCO, and K-Mart stores.  How many indy dealer exclusives did it make in 6 years in the USA?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine.

I do not recall ever disagreeing with you about Dyson's marketing strategy.  I even compared it to Hoover and implied that it could be their downfall.  Who needs 7 varieties of the DC07 or any other model for that matter.  They could just as easily make a single model is each series and sell it for the price of the lowest price model.  The standard model is as good as the animal or others in a series given the accessories.  It is just as ridiculous that some of the expensive brands that are exclusive to indiys make attachments an option as opposed to standard.  No way would I pay $500 or more and then be charged for attachments.

As for performance you are off in left field and the ball was hit to the right field   

CarmineD wrote:
You have to decide where you are going to classify Dyson.  Is it a high end vac or a box store vac?  I believe it's a box store vac, price has no bearing.  Dyson changes just like the other manufacturers and they have to in order to compete.  If Dyson were an indy brand I could see standing pat with a few different models and not changing frequently but that is not where the bulk of their product is sold.  Changes will continue not only for Dyson but all the other box brands as well.  It keeps the consumer interested.

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Dusty/HS:

You're both right, and dyson is a big box store venue vacuum.  Hence the plethora of variations on the theme for the same model but nothing new for the indies.

But..........dyson's prices compete with the indy store brands.  Dusty said as vacuum buyers tire of the cheap big box bagless, they stepped up to a dyson.  As they tire of a dyson, they are, after spending $500 plus for a dyson, buying indy store bagged brands with less anxiety.  I agree, but only in part. 

Budget is the overriding factor facing many big box store shoppers and product brands.  Dyson customers with a DC07, DC14, and DC15 will, as their vacuums fall out of warranty and/or experience repair problems, revert to the cheaper bagless models that are so pervasive now by HOOVER, BISSELL, EUREKA, EURO-PRO, and  DIRT DEVIL in the big box retailers.  It's happened already.  Watch the big box store weekly vacuum ads.  You rarely ever see the once dominant dysons advertised unless they are dyson clearances.  Not the DC24 and DC25.  Dyson's latest and greatest.   Invisible.  Why? All the less expensive vacuum makes and models prevail in the ads.  Budget of its shoppers is now utmost on the minds of the big box retailers.

If you look at the stats I posted on dyson models and market share over the years, a dyson plateau for market share has been reached in the USA and is and will keep falling off.  My suspicion is, among non-budget conscience consumers, who took the dyson plunge and regret it, they will convert to the sales of indy store vacuum brands.  These are increasing.  Why?  Repeat dyson vacuum buyers turn away from new dysons like the ball and lightweight.  Especially with the filter issues now raised by dyson.  Need proof?  Hey, HARDSELL come in here out of left field and tell us your personal buying/using experiences with the dyson DC07, DC14 and the Royal Emminence.  Did you buy a new dyson yet?    

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Box stores rarely advertise anything high end.  Large prices don't bring customers in, bargains do.  Miele is sold in department stores but you hardly ever see them advertised.  Does this mean there is no market for them and they are soon to be extinct?  There is always a market for upscale box store merchandise.  Why do people pay $100 for a coffee maker when you can have one for $20?  They both make coffee, why spend the money?

I'm not so sure Dyson owners would revert to cheaper bagless models if their Dyson is in need of repair or replacement. The reason many of them own a Dyson is the bad experience they had with other branded bagless in the first place.  Dyson, for all it's faults still has one of the highest customer re-buy ratings in the industry.  People will always spend the money if they have been satisfied with their product.  Knock Dyson all you like but for the most part they are a trouble free machine, especially when compared to Hoover or Dirt Devil.

When did wanting a customer to check a filter as part of the maintenance of a vacuum become an issue? An issue would be if the filters were faulty, which they are not.

Dusty

Dusty:

I have not seen/heard what the percentages are for repeat dyson business.  I have to conclude from the information I have the rates are not impressive, either here or in the UK. 

Since its launch 6 years ago in the USA, dyson vacuums have been advertised weekly on a frequent and regular bases by all the big box stores.  That's changed.  In large part due to the worsening economic conditions in the USA.   In the USA, Mieles are sold primarily by authorized indy dealers not in big box retailers.  They don't advertise.  But the Miele reputation in the industry for lasting 20 years is general knowledge and its German engineering is reknown.  

There are so many dyson DC07 and DC14 refurbs for sale I have to conclude that these are problematic and the owners are not repairing/keeping them.    

A $100 coffee maker vice a $20?  Compared to a $500 vacuum vice a $120.  Both do the same job.  No!  Can't compare IMHO.  Not the same.  Why? With gas prices soaring, and STARBUCKS prices rising [and stores shuttered], coffee drinkers justify a $100 coffee maker easily that grinds beans [less expensive than ground] and measures out an individual cup or 2 with specialty tastes and variations.  Preferred over a $20 version that makes a standard pot of 10/12 cups [with ground coffee] and half getting tossed. 

We'll have to wait and see about repeat dyson buyers and users, with models like the DC07 and DC14, that claimed yearly filter maintenance, and now with the DC24 and DC25 that need monthly/quarterly maintenance [with no corresponding decline in prices].  Too soon to tell with the DC24 and DC25 only months old.  Certainly it will at a minimum make repeat dyson buyers take pause and ask why.  What do you say?  Well, you have the new [old] dyson ball technology?  Good luck. 

Product maintenance on a consumer durable purchase like vacuums is always problematic.  Be honest.  That's how dyson originally pitched its high priced vacuums as superior to bagged versions.  No maintenance.  Zero costs after purchase.  Right?  Wrong.  Time is money.  And, the more you wash filters, the quicker they wear out and need replacing.  No more zero costs for maintenance after purchase. 

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

Carmine D.