Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iH9bdT5tcFOJz0hhY1fBBfP9KbLQ

http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/productmodel.asp?model=DC22

dusty wrote:

Hey Duster Man:

It's called the "good old boy's club."  Also known as the experienced, seasoned, been there done that veterans of the industry.  I call us:  "The Old Guard."  There's a saying that youngins like you in the industry should heed:  What you are, we once were, what we are, you'll soon be. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hey My main Man HS:

Of course not.  The vacuum industry has evolved over the last 100 years just fine without dyson and after dyson is long gone.  Sure, vacuum brands copy a $500 plus vacuum and sell it for $120 [low end vacuum prices and models].  It's called smart marketing and crushing your competition.  All industry companies do it.  Don't flatter yourself dyson fans.

It may be too late for dyson to drop prices and survive in the big box store venue.  Why?  Dyson gave too much time to its competitors to copy and sell better vacuums [dyson copies] for much less.  

Dyson's path of least resistance [read:  keep from competing against itself]  is to keep prices in the moderate to high range [$300-$400] and maintain a niche vacuum market.  Not a bad approach. 

Certainly, dyson has not achieved/will not achieve the predominant USA vacuum market share [in units] that many of its fans predicted years ago.  Not with 10 percent and falling.  Not with fair to middlin ratings from the pros and industry watchers.  And certainly not with its filter foibles and claims.  All of which add support to the Old Guard's long standing criticism of Mr. Dyson and his vacuums.

Dusty is right on the money.  Dyson's claim to fame in the vacuum industry is that it facilitated today's vacuum consumers to look at $500 plus vacuums without getting sticker shock.  For that, the Old Guard owes dyson a note of thanks and gratitude. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
The world changes, industry changes, the old guard remains stuck in the past. (I'm generalizing here btw, not taking a shot at you).  The old guard in the auto industry claimed Japan could never make a push into the US with their little cars.  They were wrong and it took decades for them to recover. Dyson has revolutionized the vacuum industry.  Bagless is now the standard for the biggest manufacturers in the industry.  They have all followed Dysons lead. Dyson themselves will now have to change to keep up with the competition that is quickly catching up with them.  I suspect they will but I feel they still have time.  As good as the new Hoover bagless or Bissell bagless may be, consumers will remember the crappy bagless versions of these products they've had in the past.  Those consumers, who want a bagless that works will still step up to Dyson.  It's something we see on a consistant basis. Once again it was the old guard that was slow to react to something new (bagless) and once again it has taken years to try and catch up.

Dusty

Dusty:

HOOVER and BISSELL caught up with dyson [on bagless filtration] as quick as dyson caught up with the industry standard for its brush rolls.  Bagged remains [and more than likely continue] the industry standard for the top tier uprights and canns.  Household users who went with the high price bagless fad don't like to dump daily.  [Even dysons are messy and a major nuisance to dump].  Bagless will become the standard for specialty cleaners [handvacs, sticks] and commercial use. 

I suspect as the cheaper copies give dyson a run for its money at the big box stores [as they are already], and with the recessionary world economies, especially in the housing markets, dyson will look to the commercial vacuum market with its expensive bagless.  It will be dyson's way to sure up lagging home vacuum sales.  Dyson will do well there IMHO, IF:  One, dyson increases the dirt bin capacity; and Two: dyson  maintains its product reliability rating by Consumer Reports. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hey Carmine,

Mr. Dyson, and the great majority of vacuum manufacturers use brushrolls that date back 100 years or so, are in the public domain and who's inventors have long deceased.

.

Hoover and Bissell simply reversed engineered a very much alive inventor/s inventions - James Dyson and his teams 3 to 4 year old technologies, did it legally, not better. - Although I will give Hoover and Bissell the nod for slothfulness.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:
I'll bet you claimed that the electric light bulb would never replace the kerosene lantern and that the commode was just a fad and everyone would go back to the out house.

Hello guys:

Unfortunately in one regard, Mr. Dyson, and his new age vacuum industry, did not profit from the errors made in the auto industry by the Old Guard.  He took a page right from the GM playbook which was better left unturned.

In its quest to capture market share GM produced too many models on the same theme.  Confused many buyers and more importantly as GM admits today competed against itself for sales of vehicles.

Sound familiar? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Sounds more like Hoover / Dirt Devil  or Eureka rather than Dyson. Eureka show 5 different Captures on their web page, all different colors and only a few different features between them.  On top of that you can by Eureka's Altima and Maxima bagless models too.  If that's not competing against yourself I don't know what is.

Dusty

Hi Dusty:

Very true, but keep in mind that the big box stores are noted for wanting new models to sell annually and the brands you mentioned including dyson accomodate them. 

How often do the indy vacuum store brands like RICCAR/Simplicity, ORECK, Lindhaus, Kirby, Aerus, SEBO, Miele, and Royal [more in line price wise with dyson] launch new models?   Not every year. 

Look at the proliferation of dysons since its launch in the USA: 

2002, DC07 and host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2003, DC14 and host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2004, DC11.  Scrubbed after 9 months. 

2005, DC15 Ball and a host of variations [primarily as exclusives for retail stores]. 

2006, DC16,17,18, 20/21. 

2007, reprieve, due to Air Blade, probably and opening a new HS for engineers. 

2008, DC18 [Allergy and asthma], DC22/23 and DC24 and DC25 and the year isn't over yet!    

Now, look at the market share of dysons in the USA in sku's during this time: 

2002, about 3-4 percent [with the DC07] for partial year. 

2003, about 6 percent [with the DC07 and DC14]. 

2004, about 8 percent [with 2 models: DC07 and DC14]. 

2005, about 9 percent. [with 3 models: DC07, DC14, DC15].

2006, about 9 percent. [with 3 models for full year: DC07, DC14, DC15 and partial year: DC17, DC18, DC20/21].

In 2007, about 10 percent and since has been declining.  With 6 dyson models for the entire year [DC07, DC14, DC15, DC17, DC18, DC20/21].  4 new on top of the DC07 and DC14.  I didn't count the DC16, tho I suspect dyson may in market share.

Almost no increase in market share in 3 years with 4 new dyson models added to the original DC07 and the DC14. 

2008:  market share ??  Add new models: DC22/23, DC24, DC25 and the year isn't over yet!.  I didn't count the DC17 Allergy and Asthma which is an updated model from the original DC17.

2009: market share??    New models: ??? 

Time will tell.  But............I agree with JUST, the glory days of dyson in the USA are over.  Now comes the time for dyson to settle in with the given products and carve out the dyson vacuum market in the USA for the future.  I suspect it will be in the range of 6-7 percent per year in units IF the US economy rebounds soon. 

Dyson has made numerous exclusives [variations on the dyson theme] in models DC07, 14, 15, 18 for SEARS, BEST BUY, Wal*Mart, TARGET, COSTCO, and K-Mart stores.  How many indy dealer exclusives did it make in 6 years in the USA?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine.

I do not recall ever disagreeing with you about Dyson's marketing strategy.  I even compared it to Hoover and implied that it could be their downfall.  Who needs 7 varieties of the DC07 or any other model for that matter.  They could just as easily make a single model is each series and sell it for the price of the lowest price model.  The standard model is as good as the animal or others in a series given the accessories.  It is just as ridiculous that some of the expensive brands that are exclusive to indiys make attachments an option as opposed to standard.  No way would I pay $500 or more and then be charged for attachments.

As for performance you are off in left field and the ball was hit to the right field