Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

http://gizmodo.com/345918/dyson-dc24-vac-sir-james-brings-his-ball-back

Two models, one small, one large :-

DC24
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC24-ALLFLOORS

DC25
http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/product.asp?product=DC25-ALLFLOORS

Venson wrote:

The Dyson Digital Motor can apparently produce a third more suction power than a conventional motor. The new motor is very small in comparison to a conventional one. The Digital motor is supposedly more robust than a standard motor; carbon brushes and armatures being, supposedly, the reason for most failures.

It could be said that Nilfisk have a drop-in motor on their GS80 series machines: motor drops in, locks into place, plug in the flex, and away we go!

As for Miele's motor, I think it is just another variation on what has gone before. Most motors that I have seen have had the fan(s), then the armature, then the carbon brushes.  The carbon brushes would get the heat in this arrangement.

Miele has the fan(s), brushes, then the armature. The carbon brushes run cooler in this arrangement.

However, the Hoover 'Powerglide' S4256 cylinder that I once owned, I'm sure had a reverse positioning of the fans to the motor: carbon brushes, armature, then the fans. The filtered air was sucked over the brushes, over the armature and expelled from the fans. This was quite a noisy cleaner.

Yes Trilobite,

The Nilfisk GS 80 still has an easily removable motor unit as well as some other new models meant for office use. That idea goes back years and years with Nilfisk but I did not bring it up because I didn't want to wear the name out all in one day.  The Shetland Lewyt I mentioned was the more commonly known here. SL came to develop two or three "modular" canister vacuums that were intended to be easily repairable by the owner.  Shetland-Lewyt was sold by SCM to a Canadian concern around 1972 per what I've gleaned from the web.

Nonetheless, a smaller than usual, high performing digital vacuum motor that could be easily removed and replaced is not a bad idea If affordable.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

I think there is another major factor at play too for the trend away from low clearance for under furniture and bed vacuuming.

In the first half of the 20th century, USA households were usually one vacuum only, due to the cost and the longevity.  Upright/tank/canister.  The one vacuum household changed in the 60's when vacuums began cheapening.  More households had an upright and a tank/canister vacuum for cleaning and the trend has continued.  Households now have a plethora of floor care appliances for all household cleaning chores.  Hence, the need for vacuum makers to solve all the users' cleaning problems in one/another vacuum whether tank-canister and/or upright is not as important anymore.

Carmine D.

Trilobite wrote:

Speaking just from the US perspective:  Dyson convinced itself that the increased air watts in the DC07 at the expense of a wimpy brush roll would excel its rug cleaning performance over all other conventional uprights on the market which used standard brush rolls.  He even convinced supposed industry experts that his was an improvement.  They believed him at first.  We saw and know the results.  Dyson has been on a campaign since the DC07 to revamp the air watts downward and improve the brush roll.  Still hasn't gotten there yet after 5 plus years IMHO.  And that of Consumer Reports.

The DDM may be stronger and last longer, TIME WILL TELL not words.  However, if the vacuum doesn't have equally good components comparable TO THE LESS EXPENSIVE COMPETITION, like a decent brush roll and rug adjustments, jaydee will have a reputation in industry for being a brilliant inventor who can't tie his own shoes.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,I totally agree with you, Even dyson is catching on to the total package,The newer 18 series are being hailed by the dyson experts as much better cleaners than their older cousins.

Their cleaning[sweeping capabilitys are on par with a hoover convetible.......

As one of the real vacuum gurus said,[STAN].as long as the machine pulls the dirt and debris into the bag,everything else is just for hype and advertising purpose.Lets face the facts that the dyson cleaners are just overhyped,cheap molded plastic,left over fantoms.

MOLE

iMacDaddy wrote:
Hi iMacDaddy,

GREAT post, you hit the nail right on the head and I agree 100%.  Aggressive brushroll, Level 3, and the DDM...it would be as close to perfect as one can get.  The DC24 is neat, but I think for now I'll stick with my DC21 and wait for a better machine.  BTW I don't think the DC25 has a dual-brushroll setup, that's just the way the nozzle looks but it had me confused for a second as well.  The DC24's nozzle looks the same, from one side.  I could tell from the picture on the other side it was normal; the asymmetrical shape may have something to do with where the motor/gearbox is positioned.

In regards to low clearance height, blindly vacuuming under beds is asking for trouble.  To me it seems that a canister is better suited to that.  I can get on the floor with the power nozzle of my DC21 (which is fairly low-profile, but the next Motorhead will be even better in that regard), go all the way under the bed without a problem, and the machine actually picks up quite a bit.  It also lets me LOOK to see if there's anything that could damage the machine under there...usually there isn't but one can never be too safe.  I've found that with uprights, since the handle is fully pivoted (and most of them don't lie 100% flat without raising the nozzle slightly), they don't seem to seal to the rug as well under the bed than a canister's power nozzle would.  That's just my opinion.

-MH

I don't think either DC24 or DC25 have dual brush bars, for one the website would mention this in the spec.  The cleaning nozzles on these machines look simiular to the new motor head on the DC22 Japan model.  It looks like a second brush bar but probably where the motor is to power it.  If anyone has noticed both models have one long brush bar centre suction channel and looks like it is powered from one end (like the sebo vacs to mention one!).  From the pictures so far there is no where that covers part of the brush bar for the belt/gear that connects to the motor (like the DC15 and DC18).  I could be wrong!?

I don't think the DC24 will replace the DC18 Slim, the DC24 is more compact in size/height/weight making it easier to storage for people with limited space.  I don't think the wattgae of the DC24's motor is the same as the DC18 and DC25 which is 1200 watts although it gives the same performance of these full size models!  One thing which is a vast improvement is the cleaning head much lower profile than the DC15, probably lower than the DC18 too!  I wonder if the metal soleplate off the DC15 is on both of these!?  One advantage of the slim is the slims narrow body, so the cleaning head 'sticks out' either side of the body. This making it easy to cleaning along walls with radiators or 'kick boards' in the kitchen.  Although from pictures of the DC24 and DC25 the cleaning head is protuding slightly unlike the DC15.

I would have like to have seem at least on the DC25 the DDM and the Level 3 Cyclone technology but as is mentioned on this post that would have pushed the price up.  Both these models are very well priced from what I have seem on the UK Dyson Web.   The DC25 comes in at the same as the basic DC18 (UK) model.  Plus both these new models have standard HEPA filters which is a first for the UK.  Usually HEPA filters are fitted on higher spec Dyson models in the same range.  

I agree with iMacDaddy no one blindly cleans under furniture/beds, but I have mentioned in the past Dyson has never come back with anything to replace/match the slim profile of the DC03.  That is one model that would have benifitted from the DDM! Like the DC18 slim was a much needed model to the line up so are the 2 newcomers DC24 and DC25.  I can't wait to see both these 2 models myself!  Quite like the small DC24!

Thanks DIB for posting this picture, certainly does give a idea of the size of the DC24!

DC18

Motorhead wrote:

There's a simple solution whether its using a low profile upright like Oreck, a cordless HOOVER Slider, and/or a wand and hose from a canister vacuum.  Look under the bed and/or furniture before vacuuming.  Preferably in the daytime with your eyes open.  You can see for miles as the saying goes.  And, if there is anything that shouldn't be picked up by the vacuum, like toys, socks etc, or the dyson case that was reported by the hotline 10 twenty pound notes [that clogged the dyson hose] remove them before vacuuming.  Simple. 

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

True, yes, but from my experience with the Oreck it didn't seem to do well when the handle was all the way down.  When I vacuum under the beds I want the machine to do as good a job as it would if I was vacuuming carpet in open areas.

Regarding Mole and Venson's comments about the switched-reluctance (SR) motor technology.  The reason SR motors will be more desirable, I understand, is that they can withstand being run for long periods of time (if not indefinitely) due to the lack of a commutator and carbon brushes.  And because of the lack of a commutator and brushes they are also capable of much higher speeds than standard universal motors.  We all know the SR "Hurricane" motor in the Rainbow E-series is designed to be run on low speed 24/7 to clean the air; for vacuuming the hose is connected and the machine switched to high speed.  We haven't come this far yet, unfortunately, but I predict that one day magnetic bearings (where the only moving part is the motor shaft, being held in place by the magnetic field) will be added to this technology, making the SR motor virtually indestructible.  I am *not* in the business myself, but from talking with people who *are* in the industry I have not heard of any instances of motor/board failures in the E-series, yet.

Hi DC18, I was thinking the same thing about the nozzle, it threw me off for a minute because the powerhead motor in my DC21 is mounted above the nozzle.

Hi Motorhead

Yeah the pictures of these new models are deceiving!  Another thing I've noticed is that it doesn't look like the cleaning heads are detachable like the DC18 Slim!  Also the cleaning head only has one pivot point (excluding the pivoting point where the nozzle is attached to the main part of the machine) unlike the DC15 and other models DC14, DC07 etc...

Looking at the Gizmodo vid again the DC24 looks very flexible and easy to steer and move about!  Looks like another new change over valve is used to switch from floor to tool!

DC18